Honey not ok for vegans? - Page 2

[vegemamato]

Originally Posted by alacrity

I catch spiders and put them outside unless they are poisonous.

As for roaches or anything that causes health problems I would kill. It is self defense. Much different than for pleasure of taste or fashion.

just curious.. why are roaches a health threat?

[Phantaja]

Originally Posted by vegemamato

just curious.. why are roaches a health threat?

They can cause asthma and carry a lot of pathogens.

[vegemamato]

thank you, phantaja

[Jelinifer]

Originally Posted by alacrity

I catch spiders and put them outside unless they are poisonous.

As for roaches or anything that causes health problems I would kill. It is self defense. Much different than for pleasure of taste or fashion.

We've even had huge wolf spiders in our home (google them...I dare ya!).... and even those guys get scooped up in a cup and brought outside by my brave DH

[alacrity]

http://afhh.org/hhe/hhe_cockroaches.htm

There's a link about cockroaches and health risks. Pretty much what was said above.


We have brown recluse spiders here in MO. I kill them. I have seen what they can do and I live in the city. If I put it outside I would be putting someone else at risk.

[catnip]

We kill black widows, because they are dangerous and I have a small child and cats. I've seen what a black widow bite does to a cat.

We have a pretty serious ant problem. Even keeping the house very clean, keeping food and water wiped up, they are everywhere, we've tried caulking the places they come in, and it just is no use. It is literally unavoidable to kill some of them. But other than that and the odd mosquito, I try not to kill invertabrates.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by catnip

We have a pretty serious ant problem. Even keeping the house very clean, keeping food and water wiped up, they are everywhere, we've tried caulking the places they come in, and it just is no use. It is literally unavoidable to kill some of them. But other than that and the odd mosquito, I try not to kill invertabrates.

We've had some serious ant problems too, and I've had to resort to using some ant traps outside the house. When they begin to ruin food, I feel like I don't have a choice. As much as I'd like to, I just can't afford to feed the entire animal kingdom. I've also had to put down some pantry moths for the same reason. Other than that, I catch and release any bugs in our home. Last year we had katydids come into our house to die in the fall. I would end up getting rather attached to them, and feel quite sad when they finally died. They were beautiful.

[ShadowMoon]

This is an excellent essay by a wonderful woman, Joanne Stepaniak. This is exactly how I feel about the veganism-label debate. It ties in with the honey/insect killing arguments as well.

http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm

Peace~

[vegemamato]

Originally Posted by ShadowMoon

This is an excellent essay by a wonderful woman, Joanne Stepaniak. This is exactly how I feel about the veganism-label debate. It ties in with the honey/insect killing arguments as well.

http://www.vegsource.com/jo/essays/namegame.htm

Peace~

that was a great essay

here's a link to her honey one, for anyone who's interested..

[maplesugar]

I am trying to be mostly vegan (not that strict), but will not give up my locally raised raw honey. I know the dude I buy from and know that the bees are ethically cared for. I think honey has a lot of health benifits, for example eating raw honey from one's locale can help with seasonal allergies. It is just so good.

I will not, however, buy non raw honey from the store as much of that stuff somes from China and is mixed with other sweetners. If you haven't had raw honey, I think you haven't had honey at all!

[buttercupmama]

To be fair, bugs and some small animals get killed on fruit/vegetable farms as well during the various processes. I've even had meat eaters use that point with me to vilify veganism. Of course it still doesn't compare to the suffering caused by eating meat, but we can't pretend it doesn't happen either.

My grandfather kept bees. He never did anything harmful to them and brought home raw honey every few months or so. Bees use honey in the winter when they can't bear the cold to gather food. Our climate was tropical throughout the year, so if their home was filled, they would have simply have moved on to another. He never removed more than half of the honey at one time. He felt that they wouldn't have liked that.

Honey isn't made the way milk is. I think that's where the line gets blurred the most. I mean, sure, bees use honey, but they won't use it all year round. And if your climate is warm enough, they won't ever use it. In that sense, it's quite different from milk. A baby mammal needs that milk and that need isn't based on seasons. The milk isn't simply what's on standby.

If we want to get ethical, there are animal products and by-products everywhere, even in your car, even in your bicycle tires. Does that mean every person who calls himself vegan but owns a bike is really not? No. It just means he's as vegan as he can manage to be, and that's what's most important.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by buttercupmama

To be fair, bugs and some small animals get killed on fruit/vegetable farms as well during the various processes. I've even had meat eaters use that point with me to vilify veganism. Of course it still doesn't compare to the suffering caused by eating meat, but we can't pretend it doesn't happen either.

To me, as a vegan, the difference is intentionally killing an animal/insect. I mean, none of us can help killing insects with our cars. Around here deer, squirrels and other animals get hit and killed frequently. So, it's the intention that is important to me. But, most honey producers know that bees will be killed during the harvesting of the honey. They (and people who eat honey) accept that. I don't.

Also, I'm not a vegan who thinks that everyone should be vegan. I think people make choices that they're morally and spiritually okay with. If that includes using/eating animal products, I'm not going to try to change their values. I'm more than happy to share with them why I make the choices I do, but I'm not a proselytizer.

[mama_kass]

If you want to eat honey go for it! But, if you do when people ask "Oh are you vegan?"

Make sure you say, "Not technically since I eat honey."

[pinksprklybarefoot]

Although I tend towards natural products, if I need a vegan sub and it is full of chemicals, I'll use it.

Target makes an imitation honey (sold next to the honey) that is vegan and incredibly cheap. However, it contains HFCS *and* an artificial sweetener. But sometimes I really want honey mustard dressing, and that does the trick

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by pinksprklybarefoot

But sometimes I really want honey mustard dressing, and that does the trick

It may not do the trick for you, but maple mustard dressing works for me! If you usually have maple syrup on hand, give it a try and see what you think. If the honey flavor is what you're going for, though, you'll probably like it better with the honey substitute.