how do you teach children to speak respectfully?

[jrabbit]

This has been an ongoing problem, that I've sincerely tried working on. My instinctive reaction when the kids "yell" at me is to yell back. I get just as upset as they do, but I know that I'm the grownup, and I need to keep my temper in check if they are ever going to learn to do it. So, I try, really I do try!

But days like today just get under my skin. DD-9yo (10 in Dec) is the worst. DD-5.5yo seems better able to control her temper, and she is witnessed being intentionally nice more often - like today, she said "thank you" and observed that everyone is happier and calmer when she says thank you and speaks nicely, so she wants to say it more often. DD1 didn't hear her say that, but I am positive that her response would have been snarky "well, I can be nice, TOO!" or "she's only saying that to get something" or "why are you nice to HER? you are NEVER nice to me."

As we were trying to leave this morning to go to a play that I knew they would enjoy, and we'd been planning for a week, so they knew what we were doing - I asked for help getting the stuff to the car. I clearly stated that "I need help getting our stuff to the car." Neither was acting like they heard me, so I said it 3 times. Finally, DD1 said "why should I help you when you NEVER help me?" REALLY??? REALLY??? you want to go there, do you? I would have left it, but DD2 decided to go get the last bags, and DD1 threw an enormous fit about how it wasn't fair that DD2 got to help! EXCUSE ME? So, now, I'm pissed. It's been 20 minutes of back & forth, and I don't have the patience to tolerate her snarky-back-talk anymore. So, I lost it and yelled. Now, I'm the bad guy, though, because I yelled.

So, seriously, how do you get past this stage? It's like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I try so hard not to get mad, but her words come out so hateful. And she doesn't stop. I ask her to speak nicely, and she says "well YOU don't speak nicely." REALLY? I've been putting up with your sh*t for 20 minutes. Exactly how long am I supposed to sit here and take it? I've read the How to Talk book. Our library doesn't have anything by Alfie Kohn (and I just can't buy any books right now). Family therapy is out, too. And I don't get the feeling that it's any food issue. I really hope this isn't the way it's supposed to be because she's the oldest of 3 daughters, and I don't want to go through this again!

--janis

[boheime]

We model the behavior and treat our children respectfully. They, in turn, do the same.

Can you see if your local library can get any books on non-violent communication?

[heartmama]

We do model the behavior we want and that has gone a long way. Also, ds is an only child and homeschooled so he doesn't have a great deal of pressure to speak differently than the way we speak to him.

However, I also have little tolerance for rude talk and am very strict with my boundaries on that issue. At 9 years old (the age of your dd) I didn't give lectures or reminders if the rudeness was deliberate. In fact I probably stopped doing that around 5 or 6 years old. I never, ever just sat there and took abuse. You mentioned listening to your dd rant for 20 minutes. I would never expect my son to listen to me do that to him, and I certainly was not going to give him the idea he could talk that way to me.

An immediate "I don't like being spoken to that way" was said and I walked away. The secret to this is that I did not bark at him and walk away in a huff. I spoke sharply but calmly and genuinely stepped back and left him alone. With my own ds this worked every single time. He always came over and apologized and used a normal tone. There was no need for me to correct him or lecture. He knew perfectly well at that age that he should not be rude, and I think it doesn't work with children if you care so much about setting them up for success, you always do the heavy lifting. In other words, if he wants to talk to me, he can refrain from being rude. That isn't asking to much of a 9 year old. Although I naturally want him to feel he can always talk to me, in any healthy relationship, there have to be boundaries. Some form of this approach started much earlier than 9 years old. However, I adapted my boundaries to what was realistic for ds to handle. I had a different version of it at 2, 4, and 6 years old. However, from the earliest age it was a limit that was made clear to ds in a way that he could understand.

I say all of this because for my ds modeling and telling him what I wanted was good but not great. Sure, he knew what to do. But he had no reason to stop being rude once it started. The above was the quickest, gentlest approach I found to make the boundary clear for him.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Janis, 9 is such a rough age at times. I remember it clearly with M and having many days where I just couldn't win. It really almost sounds like she is expressing her general frustrations in her life in situations like this. She may just be having trouble communicating that to you in a productive way. It's like you see her as being more grown up and mature and she feels that way, but she still has some serious growing to do. That is evident with this behavior.

What I found helped us a lot, besides modeling behavior we wanted, was to spend more one on one time with her in places I knew she would open up. For M, it was often in the car. I would purposely plan things that took a while to get to so she would open up to me. Many times, I picked her up for weekend visits alone (or with L sleeping) and she would talk and talk and talk to me about all the things that were frustrating her. Sometimes it was me that was the problem for her. We would try to problem solve ways for us to both be happy with things. The times when we were really talking well were the times when she would mellow out and be a pleasant human being for days at a time. When she didn't get that time, we all paid for it. We still deal with some of this now that she is 11, but we get a lot of one on one time when the little ones go to bed. I just have to keep in mind that she needs more than just us being together as a family going through the normal day to day stuff. She needs her time to be heard.

HTH-- Sheri

[jrabbit]

thanks for your feedback. I homeschool, and one-on-one time with any of the children is a huge challenge. But I do my best. This is a new problem, and it is an old problem - it's just gotten really bad lately. My husband and I are at our wits' end with it. When she sasses to me, I don't automatically respond emotionally. She has been told from day one that she's not allowed to speak in a rude/ugly way to anyone, but especially not to her family. But on days like today, after 20 minutes of her being continually snotty one scenario after another, and me reacting each time as calmly as possible, I had enough! And, that really seems to happen quite a lot. I would swear sometimes that she absolutely believes that the whole world is out to get her, and we're all mean to her all the time, which simply is not true. But when she does this behavior thing with absolutely no regard for anyone else's feelings, it's really hard for me to remain gentle.

I can't find much of anything on the resource list at my library. You'd think more books would be available in Houston ...

--janis

[ma_vie_en_rose]

Janis, check out Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting. I found it through the Harris library system. Leila has been wearing me down lately, and I found this book so helpful. I am able to see things much more objectively with her and how punishing is doing the exact opposite of what I want. I have been spending more time loving on her, and it seems to be helping.

Oh, and tell the library you want specific books. Chances are that they will order it.

[jrabbit]

I have searched for it repeatedly on their library search, and can't find ANYTHING by Alfie Kohn. I know I'm not stupid. :P When we go tomorrow, I'll try to request it in person.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by jrabbit

But on days like today, after 20 minutes of her being continually snotty one scenario after another, and me reacting each time as calmly as possible, I had enough!

No doubt!

When I am tempted to yell, I whisper instead. Often it is a loud "Dd!" to get her attention, and then whispering forcefully "that. is. enough." I don't think *calm* is called for when someone is treating you poorly, you know? When I maintain a firm boundary for how I want to be treated, I not only keep myself from getting to the point of explosion, but also model to my dc how to establish and maintain their own boundaries.

To the "why should I help you when you....." comments, I would just ignore those in the moment and repeat my request, briefly. "Dd, the bags." Very serious, very firm.

I guess my strategy is to meet the drama with brief, firm responses. I'm not getting into a big discussion when a child is clearly edgy. Hopefully, she'll learn that, if she wants to have a big conversation and be heard, she needs to be respectful and have some self-control, and that certainly holds true in life.

[mrsfatty]

Modeling the behavior is how kids learn it.

In the situations you've described...maybe just stop reacting--and start validating and repeating her. Let them be apart of the problem solving.

"We need to leave by noon to get to the play on time. All of this needs to get to the car. I don't think that if I do this by myself, we'll make it to the play on time. What would you be willing to do/to carry so we're on time?"
If no, one is willing to help, then the consequence of not helping is being late.

"why should I help you when you NEVER help me?"
"You think I don't help you" (not in a question--not raising voice at end to inflect a question--just state it--it's less defensive if you make it a statement instead of a questions)
"No you never help me at all"
"That must be frustrating"
"Yes, I'm mad because you never help me. When I ask you to help me with __ you don't. SO I'm not going to help you."
"You want my help when you ask for __" (again, statement, not question)
"Yes, I want your help when I ask for it"
"Ok, I can try to help you when you ask for it--I will work harder on recognizing that you really need my help for something."
"Good."
"we're going to be late if I don't get help getting these things out to the car."
"I'm not helping"
"Then we'll be late. That's a bummer. I was hoping to get there on time today."
"I'm not helping." (or maybe she'll choose to help, because you've given good-will to help her in the future)
"Ok. You're not helping." (again, statement)
(chances are--she'll either help after she's not "made" to help--or she'll continue not helping, but be upset about not getting there on time, and then will make a different choice in the future.)

I hope that's helpful....

I think you'd get a LOT from the books: "how to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk," and "siblings without rivalry"

[hipumpkins]

We homeschool also and one of our "lessons" is, respectful language and how to tell someone the same thing in a respectful tone.

I use respectful language as green lights and disrespectful as red lights.
You move easier through life using respectful language.
We draw on the dry erase and make red lights to point out dis respectful and green lights for allowing the car (which represents people or conversations) to keep moving on.
So when bickering starts I remind, "respectful language" some times it works and sometimes it doesn't but the idea is planted.

[LynnS6]

Some kids need more than modeling - they need direct instruction. This can be done calmly, politely or even in a fun manner. The key for me is to separate out her meaning/intent from the form.

If she knows the forms to use, and just doesn't, then your instruction can be as simple as "That sounded rude. Please say it politely." Sometimes I just say "That was rude. Try again."

If she's not at a spot where she can easily rephrase it or change her tone, then I would give her an example: "is "Why should I go get the bags" the same as "Mom, I don't feel like getting them, could you please do it?" "yeah?" "Ok, let's try saying that." (whether or not she does, I'd leave it there.)

Since you homeschool, you could also do some 'games' where you say something rudely and have your girls take turns rephrasing it more politely. "No way, I'll never help you!" Then reverse it (they'll love this). You say polite things and they turn it into rude things. You could have each of your girls write 5 rude things, then change papers and have them translate the rude phrases into polite ones. And then reverse it.

You can extend this activity (especially for your 9 year old) to then work not only on rude/polite, but different levels of politeness (register is the technical term). How would she ask a friend to do something politely? What about an adult neighbor? What about a clerk in a store? By practicing these things, you're helping her get more control over how she says things, which has to be good in the long run.

Finally, it sounds like there may have been a dynamic set up (unwittingly, I'm sure) where your 5 yo is the 'helpful' one and your 9 year old is feeling left out? I think the pp's suggestions about reflective listening might be really good to address that.

OK, and finally finally -- have you read "How to Talk So Your Children Will Listen... " Faber & Mazlish? (Faber & Mazlish also have one on sibling rivalry, but I think this one is better.) Playful Parenting by Larry Cohen may also give you some good ideas. I like Alfie Kohn, but his stuff isn't all that directly applicable. It's more of a way to think about things/a philosophy. The two books I've mentioned are much more practical.

[e(Lisa)beth]

Janis, my DD is only 3 months old, so no advice there, but regarding the books - ask a librarian to order the book(s) you want through ILL (InterLibrary Loan). You can get almost any book you've ever wanted through this service.

You can also do it online. Here's the link to the Houston library's ILL service: http://illiadtsl.tsl.state.tx.us/TXN/logon.html

Hope that's helpful!

[violet]

Yeah, I don't have much advice - i'm taking notes because my Dd - 7.5 - is wearing me down and I respond with emotion more than I should. Oh we bump heads. Her emotional, snotty, angry tone just gets under my skin and I react even though I know I shouldn't.

One thing that has helped me is watching her interact with others. I am literally the only person on the planet that she speaks to in this way. That tells me a couple things. 1. she is capable of speaking with a moderate tone, even when upset. She can do it with others. she has the skills. all is not lost.
2. She feels safe enough with me that she can "let it all hang out" so to speak and she knows I'll be around to pick up the pieces with her even if she spouts all over the place. Maybe she dumps on me a bit because she knows she can and I'll still love her, while friends and others would think badly of her.
3. Quite possibly there's something I'm doing (my emotional responses?) that have set up this dynamic with her. Hmmmm. time for mommy to get to work on herself.

I'm encouraged by #1. #2 gives me some compassion for her. Surely she experiences stress from her day and vents some in my direction. I know she does this more when hungry or tired. #3 has me working hard on myself so I can be a better example and hold up my end of the relationship so that she can express her emotions safely and appropriately.

I agree with pp on clear limits, asking her to speak again in a polite tone, responding with a neutral tone through NVC to get to the bottom of her dis-ease...that's all good stuff. I need to keep a cheat sheet with me. But for me, thinking about why she seems to spout in just my direction helped me have a bit more patience and hope.
good luck

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by jrabbit

And, that really seems to happen quite a lot. I would swear sometimes that she absolutely believes that the whole world is out to get her, and we're all mean to her all the time, which simply is not true. But when she does this behavior thing with absolutely no regard for anyone else's feelings, it's really hard for me to remain gentle.

Another thought -- I wonder what her 'love languages' are? There's a good book called The Five Love Languages of Children that talks about different ways that children 'feel' loved. Is it Acts of Service? Talk? Time? Touch? (Shoot, I forget the last one...) So, my ds feels loved when I do things for him and when I spend time with him. Dd feels loved when I snuggle with her (touch) and spend time with her. I could snuggle with ds all week and it wouldn't fill his cup of 'love' nearly as well as spending an hour walking down to the transit center to see the buses.

Similarly, my kids express love for me in these ways -- dd loves to help, and she loves to snuggle, and she'll tell me that she loves me. Ds "loves" me by being my shadow.

And I think that 9 year olds, being on the cusp of adolescents, often don't have a very accurate picture of the world. There is something to be said for saying "that is enough" and disengaging when she's over the top, especially if you combine it with the NVC ideas.

[abeliamama]

I'm following to see what others say. Janis, I had a particularly bad day with my 9 year old DD. She has been doing similar things to yours, as well as screaming and walking away when we try to talk to her. I am looking for answers tonight, as well. Hope we find some.

Mama to dd (4-00) and DS (4-03)