how important is it be like a teacher? - Page 2

[jessicaSAR]

So why all the disdain for teachers??? The OP's MIL was trying to help her with her decision to homeschool. I can completely see that some of her suggestions may not be necessary in a homeschool environment, but that doesn't mean they are bad suggestions. In fact, some of them are actually good suggestions.

It seems productive to me to go through her list of suggestions and explore why they may or may not work in your particular homeschool. But, it also might be worthwhile to talk about why these things are done by traditional teachers, and what we might learn from them.

Yes, we all know our children better than anyone else, but for most of us this is our first foray into elementary education. I know many outstanding elementary teachers that have amazing skills and temperament when it comes to working with young children. I really hate it when we, as homeschoolers, speak of traditional "teaching" as if it is a dirty word. I have learned so much about how to be a better teacher for my children by talking and observing highly skilled pre-school, elementary and secondary teachers.

There is just something about the tone here that has been bothering me. Most of the teachers I know are dedicated, hardworking, experienced and very poorly appreciated and certainly poorly paid.

[Lillian J]

I didn't notice any disdain for teachers - but I think the point is that there are reasons for doing what they do where they do it, and a homeschool setting is an entirely different thing. Alicia said her mother-in-law was offering her "pointers on how to be more 'teacher like'," and I'm one who feels very strongly that learning how to be more teacher like is not a great idea on a one to one basis with one's child and can actually get in the way. Former teachers who homeschool often comment to that effect, and it was certainly my own experience. . Lillian

[sha_lyn]

I don't see any disdain for teachers on this thread at all. The only thing I see is disdain for the idea that homeschooling has to look like a traditional classroom and that the way a teacher is taught to approach a situation is the only way to approach a situation.

[jessicaSAR]

I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I did notice such a tone. Maybe that is a result of online communication, but it is possible for a perfectly sane and rational person to interpret some of the comments as disdainful of teachers. To react in dismay that anyone would want to be at all like a teacher suggests that there is nothing valuable for homeschoolers to learn from traditional teachers.

A homeschool setting is different, but not entirely different. There is lots to be learned from those who have years of experience. The handwriting is a perfect example. How would I know how difficult it is to re-teach handwriting unless I had years of experience trying to correct it. To say that traditional teaching methods have nothing to offer homeschoolers and that we should try as much as possible not to be like a teacher is, IMO, dismissing the experience of teachers offhand.

[moominmamma]

I think it's important to recognize that institutional schooling represents a sort of 'contracting out' of the academic education portion of the responsibility for raising a child, and that this is a relatively recent practice in the scope of human history. The idea of having separate roles for "teacher" and "parent" is a little artificial.

Imagine if you will that the government began providing universal free meals for children. Cafeterias would be set up in neighbourhoods and three times a day children would be delivered there to receive the meals cooked and served by trained nutritionists. These nutritionists attended special training in handling the cooking needs of large groups, and in managing the crowds of children, their table manners, their social behaviour during meals and so on. This quickly became the norm, with almost all children reporting to their nutritionists for their meals. If you as a parent decided to feed your children at home, that would be allowed, but considered a little unusual.

So if you decided to feed your kids at home, you would not say "It's important to be clear about my dual roles -- at certain times I'm their mom, and at certain times I need to act like their nutritionist. I need to learn how nutritionists act in order to successfully feed my kids at home."

A little silly, don't you think?

I see the distinction between "being a mom" and "being a homeschool teacher" in a similar light. They're not separate roles. We tend to see them as separate because culturally we have made an artificial separation, assigning the roles to different people. If they're not going to different people, they don't need to be different.

Of course there are pedagogical principles (like appropriate praise for effort, keeping learning experiences positive) that a teacher like the OP's MIL might be able to help by sharing. But "being more like a teacher" per se is, IMO, not a principle that is at all helpful in a home-based learning environment.

Miranda

[jessicaSAR]

I don't see at all why learning and benefitting from the skills of experienced teachers has to mean you separate the role of mom from the role of teacher? I am just saying that we would be foolish to dismiss the years of experience working with young children that we can gain from productive conversation with teachers.

As a matter a fact, it is also a recent practice that mothers parent mostly alone. For most of human history, new mothers would have had lots of experienced mothers living with them and guiding them. Since we have contracted out education, the largest cohort of people who have all those years of experience in teaching are teachers.

[Needle in the Hay]

Originally Posted by jessicaSAR

I don't see at all why learning and benefitting from the skills of experienced teachers has to mean you separate the role of mom from the role of teacher? I am just saying that we would be foolish to dismiss the years of experience working with young children that we can gain from productive conversation with teachers.

As a matter a fact, it is also a recent practice that mothers parent mostly alone. For most of human history, new mothers would have had lots of experienced mothers living with them and guiding them. Since we have contracted out education, the largest cohort of people who have all those years of experience in teaching are teachers.

I find it far more helpful to have those conversations with other (especially long-time/veteran) homeschooling parents. That said, many people here have mentioned that they've found books by John Holt, John Taylor Gatto and David Guterson helpful and they were all teachers. The book Reading Games was written by a reading specialist who works with schoolchildren and it's been helpful to me. We use Clonlara School and have a former Clonlara teacher as our advisor.

But a person giving unsolicited advice on how to be more teacher-like in my interactions with my son? No, that would not be helpful and it's not due to any general disdain for teachers.

[sha_lyn]

Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay

I find it far more helpful to have those conversations with other (especially long-time/veteran) homeschooling parents. That said, many people here have mentioned that they've found books by John Holt, John Taylor Gatto and David Guterson helpful and they were all teachers. The book Reading Games was written by a reading specialist who works with schoolchildren and it's been helpful to me. We use Clonlara School and have a former Clonlara teacher as our advisor.

But a person giving unsolicited advice on how to be more teacher-like in my interactions with my son? No, that would not be helpful and it's not due to any general disdain for teachers.

ITA...... The advice from the MIL was unsolicited and IMHO unneeded. If the OP had a problem and was seeking the MILs advice, then OK I could see how jessicaSAR would have a problem with the posts here, but that is not the case.

In fact when I used to seek out advice from experienced teachers who were also mothers, the first thing they would say is that teaching a classroom of students is nothing like teaching your own child in your own home. I've also heard many former teachers who homeschool say that they had to unlearn much of what they learned about teaching to be able to homeschool affectively.

[jessicaSAR]

Ok, I think my post was a little harsh. I don't really think most of the posts have been disdainful. That was a poor choice of words. I guess I meant more dismissive or just an underlying tone of "down on teachers." Just wanted to clarify.

[Lillian J]

Originally Posted by Needle in the Hay

I find it far more helpful to have those conversations with other (especially long-time/veteran) homeschooling parents. That said, many people here have mentioned that they've found books by John Holt, John Taylor Gatto and David Guterson helpful and they were all teachers. The book Reading Games was written by a reading specialist who works with schoolchildren and it's been helpful to me. We use Clonlara School and have a former Clonlara teacher as our advisor.

But a person giving unsolicited advice on how to be more teacher-like in my interactions with my son? No, that would not be helpful and it's not due to any general disdain for teachers.

Wow, you hit it right on the head. In fact, when we were enrolled in a little public homeschooling program in the beginning, the "teachers" learned a lot from me, and I was learning a lot from exactly the sort of sources you mention. And this is not meant to be critical of teachers at all - it's just that I really feel we live in different circumstances - Lillian

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by jessicaSAR

A homeschool setting is different, but not entirely different. There is lots to be learned from those who have years of experience. The handwriting is a perfect example. How would I know how difficult it is to re-teach handwriting unless I had years of experience trying to correct it.

Pick any field and you'll find people with years of experience. It doesn't mean it will be applicable to your family. There will be people who agree with the handwriting advice and those who do not--that's true of any sort of advice, no?

A teacher's experience comes from managing classrooms with many children while implementing a curricula someone else chose, to the standards of yet another entity... which is very different from the 1:1 relationship I have with my child. To say that I don't want to relate to my child as a teacher to student when they're learning is no different from saying I don't want to relate to my child as a doctor to a patient when they're sick. It isn't a slight to teachers, it's a different relationship.

[MrsStrick]

I think it's more important to be yourself. ;-)

I've tried being "more teacher-like" and reading the scripted text for lessons. The kids and I always burst out in laughter because it just doesn't sound like me!

It's great that you have the support of your MIL and it sounds like she is only trying to help the best way she knows how. Don't let it throw your confidence off though. You know what's best for your child.

[kittywitty]

I think Miranda hit the nail on the head here.

I don't think it's terribly conducive at all to be "a teacher" at home. The best teachers I ever had in my 17 years of school were the least "teacher like". They were friendly, challenging, respectful and allowed mistakes. I find being immovable about things like proper letter forms and reading instructions, immediately correcting every little thing, and overly praising (genuine heartfelt praise is different than praise as reward-read Alfie Kohn) to be phony at best and at worst, condescending. But that's just my experience.

Sounds like your MIL is trying to be supportive and help. And she may be a great teacher. But every situation is different and saying things like that to someone is really not relevant with one on one situations outside of a classroom, at the very least.

One of my brothers has dyslexia and I will tell you from my experience with him being tough and immovable about things like proper handwriting do not help. They take a blow to their self confidence. Especially when they can't really help it.

As for the disdain towards teachers, I don't see it. Now, I was never a "proper" teacher but I was a sub and worked in special ed and did a lot of volunteering and class work time before I decided not to go for my teacher ed. certificate and stay home. Plus, I suppose I am a teacher in a way. But really, a lot of us are in this forum precisely because our education system is not the best place for our children because of administration or teacher issues, so I can understand a little hostility. That doesn't mean I categorize all teachers to have any of the fundamentals the OP was talking about, as I stated in my first paragraph, though. The absolutely most influential people in my life were my teachers. But that doesn't mean I believe teachers can do no wrong or I don't disapprove of a lot of the rubbish they teach you when you go to school for an education degree.

[aliciahorsley]

good reading to come back too. thanks.

[MyFullHouse]

I do not consider myself to be much of a "relaxed" homeschooler. In several subjects, I'm quite "teacher-like". Yet, I don't subscribe to any of the suggestions your MIL gave you!

In particular, I am not a fan of lathering on the praise. My kid left public school with a HUGELY inflated ego, and absolutely no appreciation for hard work. He's since adjusted to being congratulated for taking on challenges, rather than for confirming what he already knows.