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Talk me out of CIO please!

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
Does anyone have links to studies or something that shows the negative effects of CIO? I am seriously considering it at this point. I am losing my patience with him. Yesterday I was so frustrated after walking him to sleep for 30 min only to have him wake up (again) when I laid him down. He woke up and I hit the pillow next to him because I was so angry. When I picked him up to put him in the wrap (again) I picked him up rougher than I should have and it scared him.

I think I have PMDD. And he's teething.

So please, talk me out of CIO. Please, I know I don't believe in it...I just don't remember why..
post #2 of 16
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/...enNeedTou.html

We're going through some rough times here, too, suddenly.
post #3 of 16


Oh mama. It is hard. I have a LO who's always been very difficult to get to sleep, and stay asleep (although it is getting better now she's older!). Remember, if you need to it is ok to leave baby in a safe place and go out of the room for a breather, to cool down for a few minutes or make youself a cup of tea or something. That is not CIO, and sometimes it might just be necessary.
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by micah_mae_ View Post
Does anyone have links to studies or something that shows the negative effects of CIO? I am seriously considering it at this point. I am losing my patience with him. Yesterday I was so frustrated after walking him to sleep for 30 min only to have him wake up (again) when I laid him down. He woke up and I hit the pillow next to him because I was so angry. When I picked him up to put him in the wrap (again) I picked him up rougher than I should have and it scared him.

I think I have PMDD. And he's teething.

So please, talk me out of CIO. Please, I know I don't believe in it...I just don't remember why..

Well, honestly, I think you have the best reason right there in your post. He is teething. Your baby is uncomfortable, and in a lot of pain, and he doesn't know why. Do you want to leave him alone and crying out in pain in another room, while you go about your business? I know it is frustrating to have a baby crying and crying and not sleeping well, but he is looking for comfort from you because he is little and he is in pain. Know what I mean? best of luck. It is so hard sometimes. Hang in there.
post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by AislinCarys View Post


Oh mama. It is hard. I have a LO who's always been very difficult to get to sleep, and stay asleep (although it is getting better now she's older!). Remember, if you need to it is ok to leave baby in a safe place and go out of the room for a breather, to cool down for a few minutes or make youself a cup of tea or something. That is not CIO, and sometimes it might just be necessary.
I've done this and it DOES help. Even to just tell yourself "he's not doing it on purpose" several times.

Have you tried teething drops? We were in the same place and after a day of teething drops it was like I had a different baby...
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks ladies. Even reading what I wrote makes me feel guilty. He is in pain. And he's not doing it on purpose. I guess I just fear having to do this for years to come.
When will he start going to sleep on his own? Ever?
I don't even want to ttc anymore (we were going to in May when DS is 18 months) because I can't fathom trying to get DS and a new baby asleep every night. Argh.
post #7 of 16
Well, I know there are the studies etc that argue against it (and I certainly agree they are valid and worth note!). However, here's a very practical reason for it. I was raised very old school and when I had ds I knew nothing other than how I had been raised. I hadn't yet discovered this forum, had never heard of AP or GD and thought "crunchy" referred to how you liked your bacon cooked. DS was one that would take forever to go to sleep - at night it was 2 hrs every night. For naptime? Again it would take some time. So one day in frustration I decided to let him CIO. 45 minutes later not only was he not asleep, but by then he was hungry again and ended up having no nap at all! (And for those worried I let him cry for 45 min, you can breathe easy - no way I could've handled that! He didn't cry a bit, and instead chose to play with his toes the entire time!!) So even if you did decide to try it that absolutely doesn't mean it would work - and then you'd only end up more miserable for going against what you believe in. FWIW, it's extremely rare for him to take more than 10 min to fall asleep at night, and it's been that way since he was about 2 or so, so it really will get better!
post #8 of 16
Poor mama! I'm sorry you're going through this. The only way I get through the whole sleep issue is to say to myself "I have no control over this baby's sleep habits. I'm not going to get to sleep as much as I like, and it's ok!" It's soooo frustrating. But, the more you try to control it, the more frustrating it'll get. From what I understand, the who CIO thing is a long process. I don't think you just stick your kid in a crib and let them wail. You have to set up a bedtime routine, then leave them for a certain amount of time. My point is that it isn't necessarily easier to let them CIO. It takes a lot of effort!
post #9 of 16
DS is always extremely difficult to get to sleep when he's teething. It could have to do with which teeth he's working on. I know when DS's molars were coming in it seemed painful to lay him down, like there was a lot of pressure causing the pain. Try reminding yourself that it's going to pass. Also, I've heard the No Cry Sleep Solution mentioned time and again. We've never used it, but I'm also still holding DS (16mos) to get him to sleep.
post #10 of 16
, mama!! I have been where you are and I've gotten frustrated too, hiting pillows, screaming into pillows, you name it. Fortunately I don't think my DS noticed but sometimes the frustration is really difficult to deal with.

All I can say is that it WILL get better, it will! I am expecting #2 in January and my 21 month old is doing so much better than he ever has. I've never done any sleep training with him, I've always been responsive to him and his needs. I do need to lay down with him at night to go to sleep, but it takes 15minutes tops. My DH can be with the baby at that time if it is still the case when the baby comes (which I fully expect it will be!). He was one like your baby sounds like, impossible to transfer, multiple (multiple!) night wakings. It was mostly due to milestones and teething...but little by little things have gotten so much better.

I wish I had more concrete advice to offer, but mostly I just survived it. However, where is he sleeping? Can you do a mattress on the floor, so you hold him while he falls asleep but he's mostly laying on the mattress? That way when you get up it wouldn't be as much of a transfer. Moving DS to a big-boy bed at 18 months helped us a lot. Looking back, I am so happy we made it to this point without ignoring his needs. I know I would have regretted it if I had done CIO. This really is a short period of time, although when you're in it it feels forever at times.
post #11 of 16
A good link to look at: here

The pressure of being a mommy is a bit overwhelming sometimes. I think many of us have slipped with our tempers occasionally. I know I have and I feel horrible about it every time. As a PP mentioned, sometimes it's a good thing to walk away for a minute or two and came back in a calmer state.

Hang in there!
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Sept15, we cosleep at night but he won't lay down to nurse/go to sleep. If I lay down with him he rolls over to start crawling . Even if he's asleep or nearly asleep he automatically rolls and crawls.

Thanks for the words of wisdom ladies. It's good to know I'm not alone. I just need to survive I suppose.
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by micah_mae_ View Post
Thanks ladies. Even reading what I wrote makes me feel guilty. He is in pain. And he's not doing it on purpose. I guess I just fear having to do this for years to come.
When will he start going to sleep on his own? Ever?
I don't even want to ttc anymore (we were going to in May when DS is 18 months) because I can't fathom trying to get DS and a new baby asleep every night. Argh.
I wouldn't let this impact your TTC plans. May is 7 months away and that it quite a long time in the life/development of a baby. And then when you add 9 months of pregnancy on top of that... even though it seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, there is A 2+ year old and an 11 month old are like completely different species.

If it helps at all, both of my kids were * just like * yours at that age and we bumbled through it. We went for the same age spacing you are shooting for and our kids are now nearly 4 and 2, and due in January w/ #3. Every stage brings new sleep challenges, that is certain, but you will be able to grow and change along with your kid(s) and find something that works for your family!
post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberryFields View Post
I wouldn't let this impact your TTC plans. May is 7 months away and that it quite a long time in the life/development of a baby. And then when you add 9 months of pregnancy on top of that... even though it seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel, there is A 2+ year old and an 11 month old are like completely different species.

If it helps at all, both of my kids were * just like * yours at that age and we bumbled through it. We went for the same age spacing you are shooting for and our kids are now nearly 4 and 2, and due in January w/ #3. Every stage brings new sleep challenges, that is certain, but you will be able to grow and change along with your kid(s) and find something that works for your family!
Thanks, that makes me feel better. I think we will stop using protection in May and just not "try" until we get him in his own bed sttn most of the time...
post #15 of 16
I have been where you are- in fact, I am there now. It sounds tempting, but it is rarely as easy as the conept might sound at first glance, and the reason we do not do it is because leaving a baby alone to cry is cruel, and teaches them that they cannot trust you to meet their needs. Crying is the only way they have to signal those needs and by ignoring it, we teach them that their needs are not worthy of being met or that we are not consistent and trustworthy. It can damage their brain wiring long term due to excess cortisol (cannot find study right now, maybe someone already liunked? anyone know what i mean??)

That said-- There is nothing wrong with putting a babe in a playpen or safe space and punching a pillow or taking a brisk walk around the house or breathing or making a snack to re-group if you feel that you are getting to that edge on occasion- that is not CIO. CIO is nightly long term and systematic letting a baby cry to sleep train.

I have had to do this recently (take that breather I mean while knowing DS was safe in the other room despite crying-- in fact, i actually had to pack ds up and take him to g'ma and g'pa's house for a night, which i NEVER though i would do, but i needed it for his safety and sanity and my own, for sure)

but CIO is not as simple as they make it seem- while some babes may lightly cry for a few minutes and then sleep, i know my son would scream for hours, getting more worked up, and it would be miserable for us both. i know this based on his response when i have had to leave him in his playpen and leave the room a couple times lately to preserve my own sanity and have a breather/not intentional or systematic CIO. also most moms report crying too, it goes against every parenting instinct, and you will not sleep well with these emotions and feelings. and safety-wise, you do have to check on them. imagine how confused they are, they just want comfort and if they are crying it signifies a need- CIO is denying that need, which is your job to meet. you need to care for your needs too, so if you cannot meet their needs (i.e, if your babe needs to be latched on, bouncing or rocking, and being patted, you may not be able to do this all the time, but at least put music on or earplugs in if needed, and hold or sling them while they cry.

i am there too- join us in the breaking point mamas thread!! but i know that for my son, CIO would hurt his trust in me and the world, confuse and hurt him, and NOT help his sleep. also, most mamas who cio say it is painful for them as well as their babes, and must be repeated each time a transition occurs- teething, illness, a move, a new life situation, a vacation, etc. it just is not as simple as they make it sound.

have you tried No Cry Sleep Solution?? I just ordered and started reading it, and one point the author makes is that we create this false dichotomy of leaving babies to scream for hours until they are too exhausted and apathetic and give up and pass out, versus living with the notion that our need for sleep is not important and we have to live with this the way it is. There has to be something in the middle, a happy medium, where we can gently encourage our babies needs to come more in line with our own, without either completing ignoring theirs (CIO) or completely ignoring our own. I will let you know how it goes for us, and let me know if you have tried it?



And GET HELP- it is amazing what a once a week mother's helper or friend coming over so you can nap will do for your sanity, or more than that if needed. Ask for what you need. I don't know how I would survive right now (and i am just barely surviving) if it were not for a few family members and friends who have really stepped up to make sure I am able to get at least enough sleep and time to regroup to maintain some ability to feel sane and parent my son in the hours where it is just me and him and the going gets rough). ASK FOR HELP and get those naps while you can.

post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama_Gaia View Post
I have been where you are- in fact, I am there now. It sounds tempting, but it is rarely as easy as the conept might sound at first glance, and the reason we do not do it is because leaving a baby alone to cry is cruel, and teaches them that they cannot trust you to meet their needs. Crying is the only way they have to signal those needs and by ignoring it, we teach them that their needs are not worthy of being met or that we are not consistent and trustworthy. It can damage their brain wiring long term due to excess cortisol (cannot find study right now, maybe someone already liunked? anyone know what i mean??)
Thanks, that's a good idea! I did read the NCSS and I love it. But the main problem for us is that he doesn't get sleep enough between sleep periods if he takes 2 naps and he is too tired if he only gets 1...

I will check out the other thread. Thank you!
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