Church Shopping?

[z2akids]

I am very curious. I read lots of posts about people shopping from church to church looking for a good fit.

As a Catholic, I have a difficult time understanding how/why people do this. Certainly, I can understand preferring the pastor at a certain church, or the music or the Mass times. However, when you move from Catholic Church to another you essentially lose nothing of the beliefs - just change the messanger and the superfluous stuff.

I'm curious about those Christians who move from denomination to denomination or non-denominational church to non-denominational church. How do you choose something like that? Are there big differences in the belief structure from one place to another? Does it change if your Pastor changes?

I'm really interested in how you decide on a church. Do other Christian faiths expect their parishionners to believe a specific set of beliefs or are some places almost a free for all on belief systems?

[doubledutch]

i can try to answer as someone who thought of herself as a christian until fairly recently and someone who has described herself as "church shopping" for most of the past several years.

even if i felt certain about my denomination, if there were multiple congregations in my area (as would be the case if i were catholic) of course i would check them all out to find the one that's the best fit for me and my family at our current stage - you know, probably the one that had a nice program for small kids?

as it is, i grew up in a christian denomination with very defined beliefs that distinguish it from other christian denominations. as i reached my 20s i realized i didn't really agree with all of them, so i started trying to find another christian church where either:
a. i could agree with the beliefs commonly held there, or
b. beliefs are less defined and questioning, studying and even respectful debate are welcome

i also, at times, returned to my "home church" but just could not stomach my children being taught the things that were "off" to me. that situation varies widely by how liberal or conservative a given congregation is, so again "church shopping" even within that denomination makes sense in an area where you have multiple options. ultimately though it's not a faith i can be a part of.

at this point (about a decade down the line) i don't feel that i fit in anywhere. i'm not really "church shopping" any more because i've pretty much run out of options. however, i would still like to find a community. my spirituality is important to me and i want to share it with my children. i can do that on my own, of course, but i really value community and everything they could gain from that. so i guess i'm still "shopping" in the sense that i haven't found my home yet and, while i'm not so much actively looking for it these days, i still want it.

[eurobin]

Well, I'll give you my experience...

When I was little, I went to an American Baptist church because it was the closest church to home. My parents weren't religious but they wanted us to get a Sunday school education. I was "eh" about it... it certainly didn't tug on my soul. The area I grew up in was quite Roman Catholic so I went to mass with friends in high school a lot... loved the ritual of it. In college, I went to RCIA and became Catholic. But as I moved through my 20's and became more familiar with some of the deeper theology, I found that I didn't quite align with the church. Like one example - since becoming a mom, especially, I've found that I don't agree with infant baptism. So I "shopped" and found a non-denomination church that I feel really comfortable with. Basically, they believe there are two layers of importance in terms of Christianity. The big layer is Jesus. That's what the message is about. How to develop a relationship with Jesus that relevant in your life. The other layers are secondary... stuff like what you think actually happens to the communion bread or if you baptize your infants or wait till they are adults. They offer infant baptisms, infant dedications, child baptisms, and adult baptisms because the point is that a parent pledging to raise their new baby to know Jesus and a 10 year old who loves Jesus the way only a tween can and an adult who finally just feels right about it are all coming closer to what's important. I guess it sounds like a wishy-washy POV but it really is a great community of people.

To address your questions:
Would I leave if the senior pastor left? No, I doubt it, especially since it's a large congregation and I think that the other pastors would do a great job.
Is the belief structure different between my "home" church vs. Baptist churches vs. Catholic churches? Well, yes and no... yes in stuff like the baptism example above. No in that it's all about God/Jesus.
Is it a free for all in terms of beliefs? The church I attend now is more welcoming of different interpretations. It's ok not to believe as long as you're not hecking anyone during the services, lol. People who wouldn't call themselves Christian will attend because even if you don't believe Christ is a savior or was God or what have you, the message is still extremely thought-provoking, they do good in the community, their friends are there, and they have decent coffee, too! And any single one of those reasons is good enough, you know?

[Bluegoat]

Well, I think church shopping can have it's downsides. And for a sacramental church, you are quite right - the sacraments are available in all of them, so there is no reason to shop on that account.

However, I recently did switch from mu local Anglican Church to one much farther away. This was for me a big, difficult decison, because I want to worship in my own community, I think it is important not to get into picking and choosing the people you worship with as if some were more worthy than others, and my kids were happy there.

The local church was not really in line with my understanding of Anglicanism - as you probably know there is a lot of breadth in the Anglican Church in North America now, but I was more or less willing to manage with that.

What I found more difficult was that of the two liturgies offered by the Angican Church in Canada, the one I preferred was only available at 8 am, with no Sunday school or music. At the main service the music was well done, but badly chosen in my opinion, often theologically questionable and sounded like an anti-depressant commercial - like a lot of stuff you get in some Catholic churches too. And music is something that I am sensitive to in church.

I tried to get around this by volunteering for the nursery, but after a year and a half I was finding I had no connection with Church, my connection with God was not great, and I was angry all the time. I was rarely participating in the sacraments, and sitting through a Eucharist I was consistently angry or sad. I also worried a bit about my kids lack of exposure to good liturgy and music and the teaching they would get as they got older.

So recently I moved. I'm still not totally happy about it, I am even thinking of moving to be closer to the church I am attending now, which would solve a lot of problems.

That is my experience with "church shopping" within my own denomination. (I actually chose that to, I became a Christian and an Anglican as an adult.)

[lilyka]

I go to a church that is the only parish in a million miles in any direction (ok not a million but about 1 1/2 hours in any direction , several hours in some directions.) good thing I like those poeple. haviong no choice about where to go to church is part of what makes it such an awesome parish though. since we are all forced to worship together without whining we have the most diverse population of people I have ever seen in any church. over 10 first generation nationalities are represented, probably as many languages spoken, ages range from newborn to late 80s with equal amounts in every age group. economically we have everyone from welfare recipiants to people earning in the top ranks of our community. Its crazy cool.

but as someone who formally was a church shopper here is what I was looking for. basically people who agreed with me and were at the same place in their life as me. good music. good speaker. good programs. stuff for me, that suited me, that was geared towards me and my tastes and whims. There also some specific things I was not looking for. certain buzz words I wanted to avoid (seeker friendly, emergent) certain doctrines I wanted to avoid, political views I wanted to avoid. I wanted somewhere where i felt genuinely welcomed from the first visit and where people knew my name. towards the end of my journey I was looking more solidly at doctrines, history and beliefs and less and less at what the church had to offer me. but i was already well on my way to the faith I would ultimately embrace which would leave me with no choice of where i went to church.

If I ever end up in a community with more than one parish I will likely visit all the parishes to see which is most suited to my family. I would talk to my priest and see if he had relationships with any of the priests. I would meet the preists and see how I got along with them since they would be my confessor (and we confess face to face so it is an important relationship and your parish priest does not neccessarily have to be your spiritual father but it is awfully handy if he is). If I move back home to TX I will have lots of choices within a reasonable distance (reasonable for the Dallas area) but will likely stick with the one closest to my home which would not be my first choice if I was church shopping. but I think it is important to worship with people in your neighborhood.

[Tradd]

While I don't particularly like the term "church shopping," sometimes you have to do just that. If you're sticking with a particular denomination, some factors that might cause you to not attend the nearest parish are: language used (this only affects certain denominations), availability of children's programs (there might be very little point in attending a church full of elderly people if you have children).

While the pastor shouldn't be the main reason for choosing a church, sometimes this factor does come into play. If a pastor consistently treats you poorly, publicly or privately, especially when you've given him no reason to, IMO, that's a reason to start looking for another church home (I have personal experience with this).

Congregations are like families, and some are just plain dysfunctional. Maybe you see that dysfunction right away, and other times it takes a while. You know it when you see it. Sometimes it gets so bad that you *do* have to find another parish.

But if all you want to do is worship, have little connection with others in the congregation, go home right afterwards, and teach your children yourself, then the closest parish of whatever denomination might do well.

[Adele_Mommy]

I can see church shopping to choose a denomination because they do have different beliefs. However, there is also a situation where church shopping within a denomination makes sense.

Roman Catholic is an extremely hierarchical religion. There is a chain of authority from the local deacons and priests up through the bishops all the way to the Pope. Since all RC churches fall under the same authority, and if I understand correctly priests are assigned to a congregation or congregations, I can see where church shopping doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

There are other Christian denominations and other religions that are congregational. That means each congregation is the ultimate authority for how things are done in that church. As a result, different churches within the same denominatino can be radically different and it makes sense to church shop for one that is a good fit. The United Church of Christ is an example of this.

I am Unitarian Unitarian and UU churches follow the congregational model. There is no UU authority or hierarchy - instead there is an association of independent congregations. Add to that the fact that UU is non-creedal so there is lots of freedom of belief (though not what I would call a "free-for-all") and different UU congregations can be dramatically different.

Regarding leaving or choosing a church based on the minister, I can see where that would seem odd to a Catholic. Since priests are assigned rather than chosen by the congregation that sort of implies to me they are supposed to be somewhat interchangeable. In UU the minister is "called" and there is a long process of selecting a minister that is supposed to result in a good fit between the minister and the congregation. When a minister leaves or retires the church almost always has an interim minister for a year or two because it takes that long to select a new "permanent" minister. Also, the Catholic liturgy is defined by the outside authority right down to which readings are used on which days. A UU minister has a lot more freedom in designing the service and choosing readings so I would imagine a change in minister has a larger impact on the church experience than a change in priest.

[JMJ]

I have mixed feelings about church shopping. I can totally understand denomination shopping if you are trying to figure out what you believe and different places have different beliefs. It just makes sense that you would check out different churches to see which one meshes with your belief system the best. I think for parents, this is particularly important if you want to be careful about what your children are learning in Sunday school, etc. ("Actually, Johnny, we don't really believe that you should be killing people you don't like...")

As a Catholic, I can see both sides to the issue. The Catholic Church is very organized so that Catholic teaching is Catholic teaching no matter where you are. The Mass is also very similar everywhere in the world with some language and cultural variations. A PP compared congregations to families, and I kinda think that even if your family is dysfunctional, they're still your family, and you should still do your best to work it out with them.

On the other side, as one of my professors put it, "All politics is local." The Catholic Church may have very clearly defined teachings, but that may be very different from what is being taught at a particular parish. Now, the heirarchy may remove priests who teach or do something against Catholic teaching, but they generally have to really cross a line before much happens. As a result, some Catholic parishes may have valid sacraments, but some of what is taught there might be very different from what is taught in another Catholic Church.

I think that parish shopping helps to create this situation since liberal and conservative Catholics congregate toward parishes that fit with their ideals. I personally don't think that the Church should be liberal and conservative, just faithful. Faith shouldn't be about politics. Still, as a mom, I want my children to hear my faith taught at my church, and so I really can't judge somebody who shops around for a good fit.

[Tradd]

Originally Posted by JMJ

A PP compared congregations to families, and I kinda think that even if your family is dysfunctional, they're still your family, and you should still do your best to work it out with them.

I'm the posted who made that comparison. I grew up with an alcoholic father. I know truly dysfunctional from experience. And just like with families, there is absolutely no reason you need to stay in a dysfunctional church if you don't have to. After the priest at my previous parish (I'm Orthodox) treating me quite shabbily (and publicly, too) for about 18 months. I had it. I didn't go church shopping, though. Through a convergence of events (the Lord was really looking out for me), I had a church to switch to when things got bad. Due to working a new job out in the burbs when I lived in the city, it was often difficult to get back to city church for evening services, especially during Lent. So, I started going to a church only about 5 miles from work that I had visited once before. I was there at least once a month, much more often during Lent. A coworker interested in Orthodoxy asked to visit, and I took her to the church by work since that was near where she lived.

At this point, things had been bad at city church for close to 18 months. A year previously, I had almost transferred out but gave the city church another year to see if things got better. They didn't. I was unsure of what to do. I went to suburban church for a few more Sundays, and made the switch. It was a such a relief. I'm much happier where I am. There were other reasons for leaving, among them being that the priest had made an idol out of young families with lots of children. He concentrated on them to an extent that singles of all ages, as well as families with older children, were alienated to varying degrees. I'm never-married, not by choice, and I was made to feel that I was much less of a person since I wasn't married and didn't have kids. And I was one of the most active folks in the place.

[cappuccinosmom]

It is kind of a strange concept, isn't it? Two decades of "church shopping" is why my dad and mom eventually settled firmly into Catholicism. They wanted a unified, long-standing, well-defined tradition of belief and practice which they can find anywhere they go in the world.

Dh and I are protestant. We do look around whenver we are in a new area. There is such a huge variety of belief and practice within Protestantism that this is important. There is also a large variety of Protestant subcultures that make a difference in whether it's even possible to have genuine fellowship with other church members (which is a very sad state of affairs, I would add ).

We left a church in part because of dysfunction and some controlling/manipulative tendancies on the part of the pastor. That was sad because we truly loved him and his family, and loved the fellowship of the church. My dh though, won't stand for that behavior at all, and my family went through a cult experience that was incredibly painful. We didn't feel it was right to stay on and try to sweep the dysfunction under the rug.

The most recent time I had to "church shop" was when dh went to Ethiopia and the boys and I moved "back home" while he's gone. There are a ton of Protestant churches around here. We first were invited to visit a little country Baptist church by my parents neighbors, which we did. I liked it, the pastor was nice, the people were lovely, I didn't have a problem with the doctrine, but...my children were supremely uncomfortable there. It was a total of 3 hours of Sunday School for them, and the church "culture" doesn't allow for any children under 16 to be in the worship service. I couldn't do that to my kids, and I knew that if I wanted to stay, I'd have to. So we tried a different church. The one we attend now is a denomination that we're not officially part of. But again, it was welcoming, I can stomach the doctrine, the preaching is Biblical, and we can worship as a family and Sunday School does not involve an inordinate amount of time separated from Mama.

[Carita]

In my demonination, the individual churches have their own creeds if they desire, so there can be differences in beliefs from chruch to church.

I am church shopping now since I have moved. And it is about distance, being able to relate to the minister and sermons, finding kids my son's age, finding people that we have in common so that I can begin to be a part of the community, and being moved by the music. I've been to churches that touch me, and churches that are sterile to me. Of course, every Sunday, I 'd desire the former - a church that speaks to my spirit and to my family in many ways.

[Bluegoat]

I think, although there are legitimate reasons to church shop - it is a good idea to keep in mind the advice that Screwtape gave to Wormwood in dealing with his "patient." He told him that if he couldn't prevent him from going to church, he should send him church shopping.

[doubledutch]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

I think, although there are legitimate reasons to church shop - it is a good idea to keep in mind the advice that Screwtape gave to Wormwood in dealing with his "patient." He told him that if he couldn't prevent him from going to church, he should send him church shopping.

this doesn't mean anything to someone who doesn't get your reference
if this means that visiting a variety of churches and learning about different religions will lead to the person saying, "no church is right! gah!" and not going to church, well, yes, that has been my experience. but that doesn't mean it's the church shopping that's wrong.