talk to me about buying a dog

[earthmama369]

We're finally getting to the point where we're ready to invest (emotionally, financially, physically) in getting a dog. Specifically, a standard poodle or a Portuguese water dog because of dd's allergies. Ds really, really wants a puppy and we both think that with his special needs, he would really benefit from having one. Emotionally, I think having a dog that he can "spill" to and love on will be a huge benefit for him. Physically, taking care of a dog and having a relatively active pet will help him channel and focus his energy. He's such an animal person already; visiting privileges with our friends' dogs just isn't enough anymore.

I have no idea where to start.

I've only ever owned cats, and they've always been rescues -- found in a dumpster, at the vet's, etc. I've never even gone through a formal rescue service because I've never needed to.

I'm assuming we'll need to buy this puppy. I don't see a rescue approving us. We have young children and an unfenced yard, which I understand are two big strikes according to most rescue foundation standards. I don't want to buy a puppy from a pet store. I absolutely do not want to support a puppy mill and I don't think puppies coming from pet stores tend to be healthy or well socialized anyway. We're willing to invest the money into getting a healthy dog from a healthy situation in order to uphold our own ethical standards and meet both dd's and ds's needs. What's the best way to find a purebred dog from a healthy breeding program? And how do we ensure that a puppy is purebred? We aren't looking for a show-quality dog, we just need to make sure dd's allergies aren't going to be set off.

[Asiago]

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[Asiago]

Kudos to you for being informed about puppy mills. Many people still think that pet stores really get their pups from breeders. Well technically they could be called breeders, they are USDA commercially licensed breeders, AKA 'puppy mills' and profit is their goal. A reputable breeder rarely makes a profit as they invest so much time and money into each litter.

Despite your concerns about not being approved by rescue I would still encourage you to contact rescue for the breed you wish to get. Some so called breed rescues are not actually official breed rescues, and you may want to steer clear of those as they are not always on the up and up. In order to find the official breed rescue look on the AKC rescue page for the ones that are recognized by the national breed club:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/rescue.cfm

Rescues do indeed get pups in, and also many adolescent or young adults.
Please do not worry about the bonding aspect, as pup doesn't equate to bonding, the rescue dogs often bond strongly with their new families, no matter what their age. Even if you wish to get a young dog, one that is a year is still very much a pup, yet has the capacity to hold it's bladder a bit more and requires a bit less intensive attention than a tiny pup, and won't be waking in the night as much.

If you do not wish to pursue rescue at all, at least contact them for the names of reputable breeders. They will know especially the ones that you should avoid, as those pups often end up in rescue because the breeders could care less, and never stipulate in contract that the animal must be returned to the breeder instead of ever being rehomed, no matter what stage of life the dog is in.

Reputable breeders will 'health test' all animals in its breeding program.
Each breed has various diseases it is predisposed to, so the males and females used in its breeding program will be screened to be free from these problems. The breeder should be able to show you OFA certificates to prove an animal does not have hip dysplasia, hypothyroidism, etc. They should provide you with proof of the parents annual testing for eye defects from the CERF registry (Certified Eye Registration Program) , heart, and not just a general wellness exam. Animals with these health conditions are not used in quality breeding programs.

Also the animals used in the breeding program are often over two or three years of age, so that health/emotional issues can be ruled out. Many health issues, such as seizures, do not show up until later, so very young animals are not used in quality breeding programs.

The sire and dam have often been shown to acquire their championship and demonstrate that they are good examples of breed. Don't be fooled by 'champions' in the blood line. Many gene pools of breed are so small that even pet shop/puppy mill pups show 'grandfather was a champion'. It doesn't mean much. Even though you are not looking to show, you still want an animal that is healthy and from parents that are good examples of the breed.

Avoid breeders, even 'show breeders' that breed excessively. More than a couple litters a year is a warning sign. There are actually 'show mills', these people have USDA commercial licenses just like pet store puppy mill breeders do and may even have websites with pages and pages of available puppies.

Don't buy over the internet, any breeder who is willing to take a credit card and ship a dog is not a reputable breeder. A breeder should want to meet you and your family, call your vet, get references from you, and they much want to keep in touch with you and know that their puppy is doing well for years to come. He or she will stipulate in contract that the dog is not to be rehomed to anyone, but must come back to the breeder, no matter the age of the dog.

The breeder should be in good standing with their breed club (find it on AKC site).

Good luck and I commend you for doing your research before making a purchase or rescue adoption. By the way, rescues sometimes do make exceptions and assess each family and the conditions. So don’t necessarily feel that your application will not be approved, it may be wise to apply anyway to get the ball rolling in the event you are approved.

[Noelle C.]

I strongly disagree with showing dogs necessarily being important. Dog shows are pageants. Dog show judges don't take into account health. Looks are what matter. Look into the health problems inherent in King Charles Caveliers, for instance, or pugs, or German shepherds, from the aesthetics desired from them. The tiny heads of the KCCs resulted in about 95% of them having skulls so small their braids are pushed into their spinal columns. Pugs have breathing problems from such small noses. The slanted backs of GSheps contribute to hip dysplasia. Yet if you don't breed for these things, your dogs will lose.

It's looks > health in the show world.

Some showers care very much about health. But that isn't all, or even most.

And the winner is just the best-looking of that particular bunch.

If you get a hunting dog, do you want a dog that looks pretty in the ring, or one from lines that has been proven to do the JOB? These pageants don't account for that. Dogs can be trained too to stand nicely in the ring. Doesn't mean the dog has the temperament to be a family dog.

Definitely look for a breeder that breeds healthy dogs, one who doesn't let the pups go early (pups SHOULD NOT go at 8 weeks!! NO EARLIER than 12!!). Bonus to the breeder that gets the pups their shots beforehand. Don't go with a breeder who doesn't interview you. This could be done through talking to you and getting a feel of you, or a lenghty Q&A process. A breeder who cares about the pups as more than just $$$ will have spent enough time with them and love them enough to have a hard time saying good-bye, and so will want to make sure YOU are good enough for the pup as well as you wanting to make sure the pup is a good fit for your family. A good breeder is also willing to take back the pup if you can't keep it for whatever reason. Hey, stuff happens that can't be foreseen. Even with the best planning, things happen in life, and ignorant are those who say you shoul dplan for every single thing ever. A good breeder also has an interest in what happens after the pup is in your home.

Never buy over the internet, and never buy from someone who won't let you see where the pups are kept. If the breeder will only bring the pup to you, run the opposite direction. Why hide the home?

Never ever go to a puppy store. You may want to save a pup from those tiny, abusively-tight cages, but that creates demand, and another will be bred to put in its place. Problem not solved. Problem made worse.

Something a lot of people think is a sign of a bad breeder, but is not, if a breeder not letting you have 100% of the say in pup. The good breeder spends a lot of time with the pups, and knows how their personalities are developing. If you want a pup with a milder disposition, and the pup over there is the color you think is perfect, a good breeder will tell you this, and may even tell you you can't take that perfect-colored pup because that pup's higher energy just isn't going to be the best match for what you seek. While you may have a preference for a certain specific color, or even gender, individual disposition is just as important.

[earthmama369]

Cool, thank you both very much for all the info and links. That's exactly what I'm looking for. And we will look into rescues again, knowing that an exception might be granted. *I* know we will be a good family and provide a good home for a dog, and I totally get why a rescue might not agree, but it can't hurt to argue our case.

[Ola_]

Some great advice above already. I definitely second that you should never buy from a pet store. Many are now aware of the negative press about puppy mills and so they will tell you that their puppies come from local breeders, etc. That's not true - no breeder who cares about their puppies will let them go home with anyone who can swipe their credit card!

I second the advice to consider older/adolescent dogs. We have one dog that we adopted at about 8 months old and one at 5.5 years old and both have an incredible bond with us. There is just something about the appreciation that rescue dogs seem to have for their new family. I'm not sure of the age of you kids but that is definitely a factor for rescues (some more than others). But I think you will find that really good breeders have similar criteria for placing their pups, so it's not like going with a breeder will necessarily be easier in this respect.

Here are some things to think about to get ready for the questions. Have you or your partner owned dogs as adults before? With no fenced yard, how do you plan to exercise and potty your puppy? They will need an outing at least 3-4 times a day as adults, and as much as every 1-2 hrs as a puppy (basically think of the frequency of changing newborn diapers, lol). We probably switched to the 3-4 times a day potty trips around a year of age so that is a long time of very frequent potty trips. Are your children able to be left alone when the puppy starts sniffing the floor and you need to take them out NOW? Of course you'll want to prevent potty accidents as much as possible (though they will still happen) so that it doesn't become a habit. How do you plan to separate your children from the dog when it needs a break? Will your kids listen to direction, such as don't bother the puppy in their crate and don't pull on ears? Will your children be upset if the puppy mouths them (puppy teeth are sharp!) and can they be taught to react appropriately to this? These are some of the things I would plan for and have good, thought out answers for - I think they cover a lot of the concerns that breeders/rescues have around placing a pup with kids.

The breeds you mentioned - standard poodle and PWD - are pretty high energy dogs. A friend of mine has a standard poodle and although she's single she says that it's quite an effort to exercise her enough. She goes on long walks at least a couple of times per day and jogs with the dog. Are you the type of family that will enjoy this kind of activity? A walk around the block will NOT do for these breeds (unless you're looking at a 5+ year old dog) and dogs tend to develop behaviour issues when under exercised.

[nd_deadhead]

Regarding your dd's allergies - be SURE to check your dd with a specific dog before bringing him home and falling in love! Depending on just how allergic she is, I wouldn't count on her not being allergic to a poodle. Take her to a responsible breeder and see how she responds to the contact before making a final decision.

A dear friend recently brought home a resuce dog, and her son was mildly allergic to him - but it got worse after a couple of days of having the dog in the hosue. At that point it was very difficult for them to take the dog back, but of course ds's health came first!

[sagira]

I disagree with this:

"Don't buy over the internet, any breeder who is willing to take a credit card and ship a dog is not a reputable breeder."

The breeder we're getting our puppy from, after screening breeders and lots of research has maintained excellent communication with me for a year now, asked me many questions, gave me references, runs all the genetic tests, prices reasonably and breeds only 1-2 litters a year, does want to keep in touch with me and know that their puppy is doing well for years to come. She also stipulates in contract that the dog is not to be rehomed to anyone, but must come back to the breeder, no matter the age of the dog.

That said, I found my reputable breeder in another (far) state and she will be shipping the puppy to us. Reputable breeders can be just located far from you.

Good luck, do your research and tell us how it goes!

[ZTMOM]

We have 2 young children & were approved by two rescue groups. We waited a long time to find the right dog for our family. We passed on several puppies because I knew I wasn't up for that!