Please critique our handling of meltdown. - Page 4

[madskye]

We are coming off a string of tough days here--another cycle of tantrums. DD is 4, and she too feels things intensely. I went to the bookstore last night and found a book that is really helping me, even though the title doesn't sound quite right, what he discusses inside hit the nail on head.

The book is 10 DAYS TO A LESS DEFIANT CHILD, by Dr Jeffrey Bernstein. DD is 4, I don't really consider "defiance" to be the biggest issue--it's more that we have these meltdowns that go totally out of control once they start. But the meltdowns do usually start because she is told no or something is not to her liking. I've been using all the GD techniques, and after last week, I felt like they weren't working. I lost my temper on Friday and Monday and screamed and behaved worse than she was, honestly.

This book, by Jeffrey Bernstein, completely reinforced everything I had been doing, as far as gentle discipline. It helped get me back on track. He explains why yelling & hitting doesn't work, but what I really liked about the book, is that he really spends a lot of time talking about ME, the parent, and how I can help. He goes into detail about what being calm and firm really looks like, how to be non-controlling and most importantly, how to stay focused on the fact that your ultimate goal is to be connected with your child, and help them grow into a healthy adult--not just to stop tantrums/bad behavior. He also has some good tips about how to keep a positive view of your child. I wanted to post this, because of the other other posts regarding yoru child "just dealing with it"--in my opinion, the book laid out some good, concrete ways for both you and your child to "learn to deal"!

I've read a ton of books, love to read, but for me, this book really helped me accept that tantrums are going to be a part of this process with my child--there's no magic bullet, but hopefully if I keep it calm and help her to find better ways to deal, ultimately we'll get past them. And then there might be a backslide. And then it will get better, and that's normal.

The book deals a lot with older, very oppositional kids--not where we are now, but I really just found it very validating and helpful and would recommend it.

[savithny]

First thing - I think you need to let go of whatever anger at the lady who broke the cake. I know that sometimes I find myself asking someone about their preference and doing the opposite because I"m on autopilot doing what my kid or my husband (or me!) prefers. I'm notorious for asking "Do you want milk in your coffee?" *as* I'm pouring in the milk!

At that age, when my DS had a meltdown, once it was going, there was really no reasoning, and too much talking made it worse. So generally we had to get someplace out of the way and ride it out. In the middle of a meltdown, they're not processing information in any rational way, and *too much* information made the meltdown worse. I learned taht a meltdown was my cue to *stop* offering alternatives, switching directions, trying different ideas. ALl those contributed to the worsening of his loss of control.

We saved all the talking about it for afterwards, and we'd talk about what set it off and what we all could have done differently.

When the meltdown was for something that would generally be thought of as no big deal, we'd sympathize ("I know you don't like your cake broken,") but we would NOT make a big deal affirming his fit was reasonable or that he was in the right (So we wouldn't be all "ooh, she was so mean and wrong to break your cake"). Instead, we might say "I bet she knows a little boy who *likes* his cake broken like that. If it happens again, maybe we could say "could I have a piece that isn't broken?" and we can leave the broken piece for a little kid who likes broken cake."

[FoxintheSnow]

Originally Posted by sunnmama

it's good that you realize that your reaction may not be helping him. Joining him in his outrage over the broken cake isn't going to help him; it will just reinforce his view that what happened was terrible and deserving of a huge reaction. You can validate his feelings without reinforcing that the event was big and huge. I like what your mother would say to you "will this matter next week?" "yes, you are very upset now. You are disappointed. You are frustrated because you said "no" and she did it anyway. It is ok to cry (not to scream, rage, etc). You can get past this. How can we fix it?"

as for explaining why the woman did it, i'd opt for the most generous explanation possible. "she's trying to help lots of kids, and is doing her best. She is probably overwhelmed/distracted. She made a mistake. People make mistakes." even our very sensitive kiddos (and i have one) need to learn that other people deserve some patience and forgiveness.

As for the meltdown, i think you handled it well. My dd was a very prone to meltdowns at that age, and after limited chances to get it together--it was on to the escape plan. Get the heck out of there, as calmly and efficiently as possible.

ita

[SeekingJoy]

I really like sunnmama's suggestion to opt for the most generous explanation possible. This allows for the possibility that we are all human. We all make mistakes. We can't really know anyone else's intent without thorough discussion.

Modeling this in your interactions with others when "wronged" when your LO isn't super stressed/melting down might give him an alternate internal dialogue of just "she broke my cake" instead of "she didn't respect me." I would even suggest that ideally, he could move to the point of not even recognizing the broken cake as a slight and instead processing it as just a minor annoyance.

You could narrate to your DS internal conversations along these lines:

"Goodness! That cashier didn't hear me when I said we brought our bags. Next time I will just hand them over first. Oh well, we can use these paper ones to wrap your friend's birthday gift."

"Ugh. I really don't like it when others cut in line. He must not see that the line starts around the corner. I will let him know."

"How frustrating that driver cut me off! She must be in a big hurry/really distracted. I will be sure to give even more space so that others choice to drive unsafely won't hurt us."

Also, modifying your coping strategy to assertively addressing others when you feel wronged by minor mishaps -- or even better narrating a generous explanation and letting it go -- and instead ranting to your DH after the fact might also help your LO see other possibilities.

[AbbieB]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

Not to get lost in semantics, but broken is correct here. DS got a napkin and put a piece of cake on it. He was sitting down to eat. She said, "do you want me to break your cake in two?" He said, "no." She picked it up and broke it in half and then walked away when he started crying. She did not serve it to him in two pieces, and she used her hand not a utensil.

Ewww.

I can see why he was set off. When DD was 4 she would have reacted the exact same way.

Being served a slice of cake that has been cut in two is totally different than already having your cake, sitting down to eat and having someone put there hands all over it and mess it up.

My DH would happily break a cookie in half to share with anyone, but if I or the kids took a bite off of it, he wants nothing to do with it. Of course, he's 38 so he's had some practice with restraining a tantrum and working out a solution to the problem.

I think your 4 year old deserves some slack.

[Deefodil]

Originally Posted by hablame_today

Not to minimize your oppertunity to seek thereapy, but I'm not sure if my suggestion got lost in the pile. But in the sound of music they called a kid who refused to be treated like a kid "incouragable". I never looked it up-why would the t.v. lie to me? Sounds like that's part of your son's frusteration. If (big if). If you have time to volenteer at a food bank or other local charity with tons of other volenteers every other weekend I promise those adults who volenteer there time also will mostly treat your son with the same respect that you do. Even though most adults in this world most likely just won't. This would serve a second purpose because I heard that your activist activities took a little of the edge off of your anger. It feels good to think that you can make a difference. It sounds like he's already aware enough to get something out of it. It would probably mean a lot to your precocious youngster about himself and his ability to make the world better by stuffing boxes with food for the hungry children and families.

I think the word you're looking for is incorrigible.

Main Entry: in·cor·ri·gi·ble
Pronunciation: \(ˌ)in-ˈkȯr-ə-jə-bəl, -ˈkär-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin incorrigibilis, from Latin in- + corrigere to correct — more at correct
Date: 14th century

: incapable of being corrected or amended: as a (1) : not reformable : depraved (2) : delinquent b : not manageable : unruly c : unalterable, inveterate

— in·cor·ri·gi·bil·i·ty \-ˌkȯr-ə-jə-ˈbi-lə-tē, -ˌkär-\ noun

— incorrigible noun

— in·cor·ri·gi·ble·ness \-ˈkȯr-ə-jə-bəl-nəs, -ˈkär-\ noun

— in·cor·ri·gi·bly \-blē\ adverb

or

n⋅cor⋅ri⋅gi⋅ble
  /ɪnˈkɔrɪdʒəbəl, -ˈkɒr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-kawr-i-juh-buhl, -kor-]
–adjective
1. not corrigible; bad beyond correction or reform: incorrigible behavior; an incorrigible liar.
2. impervious to constraints or punishment; willful; unruly; uncontrollable: an incorrigible child; incorrigible hair.
3. firmly fixed; not easily changed: an incorrigible habit.
4. not easily swayed or influenced: an incorrigible optimist.
–noun
5. a person who is incorrigible.
Origin:
1300–50; ME < L incorrigibilis. See in- 3 , corrigible

in·cor·ri·gi·ble (ĭn-kôr'ĭ-jə-bəl, -kŏr'-)
adj.

1.

Incapable of being corrected or reformed: an incorrigible criminal.
2.

Firmly rooted; ineradicable: incorrigible faults.
3.

Difficult or impossible to control or manage: an incorrigible, spoiled child.

n. One that cannot be corrected or reformed.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by SeekingJoy

I really like sunnmama's suggestion to opt for the most generous explanation possible. This allows for the possibility that we are all human. We all make mistakes. We can't really know anyone else's intent without thorough discussion.

Modeling this in your interactions with others when "wronged" when your LO isn't super stressed/melting down might give him an alternate internal dialogue of just "she broke my cake" instead of "she didn't respect me." I would even suggest that ideally, he could move to the point of not even recognizing the broken cake as a slight and instead processing it as just a minor annoyance.

You could narrate to your DS internal conversations along these lines:

"Goodness! That cashier didn't hear me when I said we brought our bags. Next time I will just hand them over first. Oh well, we can use these paper ones to wrap your friend's birthday gift."

"Ugh. I really don't like it when others cut in line. He must not see that the line starts around the corner. I will let him know."

"How frustrating that driver cut me off! She must be in a big hurry/really distracted. I will be sure to give even more space so that others choice to drive unsafely won't hurt us."

Also, modifying your coping strategy to assertively addressing others when you feel wronged by minor mishaps -- or even better narrating a generous explanation and letting it go -- and instead ranting to your DH after the fact might also help your LO see other possibilities.

I *REALLY* like this advice.

[VisionaryMom]

I sort of disappeared from this thread while we worked some things out.

Hablame, I did read the suggestion about helping him find a service-related outlet. He does do a good bit of volunteer work with me, but I will talk to him about planning his own thing. I do some basic stuff - volunteering at the women's shelter, coordinating food drives - but also some bigger, more offbeat stuff. I'm planning a camp-out on our Capitol Lawn until I have enough donations for coats/hats/gloves for our city's homeless population. DS wants to join me, but neither DH nor I want him to. He will be there during the day, but I can't in good conscience let him spend the night with me there, so I'm trying to brainstorm ideas with him for something he can "own" in that.

All in all, though, we've had a rough week. He does better with structure and something constructive to do, but he's also insatiable. I talked to a friend from church about the cake incident (they were there when the whole thing happened but didn't know why it happened), and she said that her son had a meltdown because of something similar with an apple. So we were talking about several issues with the boys and getting upset over things like that, except that, of course, her son gets over it in a couple of minutes and isn't violent. So I'm feeling better that getting upset over these types of things is normal, but we really need to work on appropriate responses (or non-responses).

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

Nor do I know how to explain that sometimes we do have to move on when what we wanted didn't happen and cannot be corrected.

Have you tried saying this to him, directly? I've found with my own prone to hysterics kids, the more I try to "fix" things, the worse it makes it. If I focus on agreeing with the frustration and problem, and validating their upset, they get over it more quickly. My son has some anxiety and perfection issues, and the 'redos' and 'fixes' make him more anxious (becuase it's never "right" or never the same as originally planned) than validating the emotion he's having (angry, sad, frustrated), and talking about what we could do next time differently. It doesn't mean they don't wig out, it just means they don't wig out *as much*.

So I would have said something like, "Wow, she really didn't listen when you said you didn't want your cake broken in half. I'm sorry that happened, it's SO frustrating. Well........you can eat it as is, or we can figure out something else. We can't change what already happened, so let's figure out what we CAN do."

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

So I'm feeling better that getting upset over these types of things is normal, but we really need to work on appropriate responses (or non-responses).

: