Why get involved with a divorced man with kids? - Page 2

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by bits and bobs

The gritty reality though seems to be in the figures I found, that around 67% of second marriages fail, then around 74% of third marriages. If you guys are breaking the mold, then that is wonderful for you, your kids and your step-kids. You are the exception though. Of course no one wants to go into a second marriage thinking 'well 67% of these fail'. We all want to be the exception, the one that makes a difference. Some of you are but most will not be in a sustainable relationship.

Ouch. That's not a correct assessment... (putting on my psychology research major hat).

You are looking at a board where people come to seek advice on how to make a relationship work. I would say their chances of making it work are NOT the same as of someone who just enters a relationship without realizing the effort and the difficulty it entails (ANY kind of relationship). You are looking at a sample where partners are trying to better themselves, and are reaching out for a support network when they need it. Therefore, for all you know, 99% of people on this forum succeed in sustaining their relationships. You can't generalize, and I hope I explained well enough why. You are looking at a "tainted" sample.

*Ahem*
Isn't it true that 50% of regular marriages will fail? What about the future kids that will have to suffer divorce of their parents? Wouldn't that mean that life is better lived when you don't enter any kind of commited relationsips?

I think the point here is not to judge a group because they chose to be with someone who was married before, but rather examine the validity of each relationship as it stands on its own. There are plenty of first time married and unmarried couples that shouldn't be together. Yet it doesn't mean that no one shoudl ever get married.

I think it's one thing to say "listen... you never spend time with the kids, you don't treat your partner with respect, you don't pull your weight in the relationship - maybe you should reconsider being in a relationship".

And it's a whole another story to tell someone "all I know about you is that you've been married before and have a child - you shouldn't be in a relationship".

That sounds very wrong to me, on many levels, ykwim? According to your view I should go through the following checklist as soon as may be to rescue DSD:

#1. run home and inform my sleepy DP that I just found out we shoudlnt' be together, because he's been married before. (The question is... should I eat the lunch he made for me the night before first? Should I throw away the sweet note he enclosed? Or is it okay to save it?)

#2. I should return the surprise he got for me last night, just because.

#3. I should tell DSD we are cancelling our special girls only trip in three weeks because apparently, she is not my child, and I am endangering her well-being and emotional stability.

#4. I should call up her mom and tell her to pick up her daughter from work tonight, because I shoudln't be here in the first place. (her mom wont' be thrilled... she never picked up dsd from work).

I guess the nature of your advice escapes me.

[GoBecGo]

Why did you post this OP?

Are you finding you have feelings for a man who was married before? Are you a person with an ex who is searching for justification on what to do next WRT other relationships? What made you come here to tell us our relationships were probably doomed?

I have never been married, i don't plan to marry. So i am not going to show up in the statistics anywhere anyway. My partner told me yesterday that when he's at work just now he's taking private pleasure in knowing he's expecting "another kid" and no-one else does yet (we're only just 8 weeks along). His first kid is not his kid. She is mine and XP's, but he still feels she's his. When XP is around he always defers to him in parenting matters (though actually we're all on much the same page in day-to-day terms) out of politeness, but DD knows she has 3 parents to rely on and goes to whoever. She frequently calls XP by her step-dad's name and vice versa (actually she calls me, her mother, by ther names too!). Since her step father and i moved in together a year ago, after dating for 2 years, she has come on in leaps and bounds. She really LOVES having another loving parent in her life. Because of him she will have a sibling next year, and can have her mother at hom with her longer, and can live in a nice house in a good area, and has another person who loves her, plays with her, listens to her and thinks of her. I cannot see what it has cost her. Likewise, the baby inside me, am i supposed to fret for it because it will inherit all it's mothers "baggage" with XP when it was not borne of that situation? Because i don't. When my own mother died my one full-sibling and my 4 half-siblings and I all shared the loads, all made the arrangements, all comforted one another. Maybe we weren't meant to mix, but like ice-cream in cola, we work!

I too am someone who talks about how great my ex is (i am the damaged goods in this situation, by your yardstick anyway). Yesterday he met me in town to help choose and half-fund DD's winter boots and coat, then after when i had a drop in BP and felt dizzy and blacking-out-ish he sat me in a safe place, ran to get me a cool smoothie to boost my blood sugar a little and carried all the shopping to the taxi which he got DD and I into safely. He also offered to come home with us to make sure we were ok, and when i declined he said ok, well call me hen you get in, which i did. The day before he was with DD and i when she went for some vaccinations, on Saturday he and DD made me a handmade birthday card together. We were HORRIBLE as a couple, but we're good friends, there are no fights, no bitter words exchanged. He has already offered to take the new baby overnight with DD when it's bigger so we can have a break sometimes. There are lots of wonderful people in the world, you just can't make a good relationship with all of them.

[myra_mcgray]

Well my DH was not a divorced man but he was coming out of a significant relationship and he did have a child, this fact although something I needed to consider was not something that decided whether or not i had a relationship with him. Yes, at the time his ex was kind of crazy, yes at the time things were really complicated and yes at the time it was a hard adjustement to make from having no responsibility to having some responsibility for an infant. But 5.5 years later all of us (me , DH, DSS, DSS's mom) are better and our lives are better because we have each other and our kids know they have all of us to rely on. And believe me if someone 5 years ago had said that my DSS's mom would have play dates at her house with our kids I would have said there was not a chance and she I am sure would have said there was no way she even wanted to see the other kids, but things changed and we grew, and part of the reason all of us have such a great relationship is because we have been able to be a stable consistent force in the lives of both DSS and his mom. They both know they can rely on us and we will help when we can and ask for help if we need it.
We have actively blended our families and it made all of our lives better. Yes, it sucks that DSS does not have both of his parents living in the same house and I am sure this is hard for him but he does have a little brother and a little sister and he has a mom and a dad and a stepmom and a thousand aunts and uncles and grandparents that he know loves them, and his life has been stable, ever since he can remeber he had one house were his mom lived with him part of the time and one house where his dad and I lived with him part of the time.
So I think you need to rethink your presumptions about what is good for other peoples children and relationships.

[bits and bobs]

I'm not offering advice-I'm posing a question, which people are answering! I am just interested in the responses.

Yes 50% of first marriages fail-totally true. yes and there is fall out from that. My pondering is why not deal with that fall out alone; focus on any kids from that relationship and finances, health, emotional well-being. Why go into another relationship that will then involve extra kids, extra problems that has an even higher chance of failing, and then potentially do all the mopping up again?

You don't need to answer that, it's just me trying to explain the perspective I am coming from.

I want your relationships 2nd time round to work, why wouldn't I-there are kids involved. I do wish you the absolute best. I am just posing questions.

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by bits and bobs

I'm not offering advice-I'm posing a question, which people are answering! I am just interested in the responses.

Yes 50% of first marriages fail-totally true. yes and there is fall out from that. My pondering is why not deal with that fall out alone; focus on any kids from that relationship and finances, health, emotional well-being. Why go into another relationship that will then involve extra kids, extra problems that has an even higher chance of failing, and then potentially do all the mopping up again?

You don't need to answer that, it's just me trying to explain the perspective I am coming from.

Well, since you are starting the thread and posting questions - I am only trying to answer them. I'm guessing you started the thread to get a perspective, and perspective is what I have to offer.

Why not deal with the fall out alone? I actually do believe that jumping into a relationship too soon is not a good thing, but it doesn't mean waiting 18 years until the kids are off in college, kwim? DP separated when DSD was 2, and the divorce agreement was settled when she was 4. How long do you think he should be alone? 14-16 years?

By "concentrating on emotional well being" you mean isolating yourself from any potential life long partnership?

By "concentrating on health" you mean living alone, and pulling all of the responsibilities of parenting and work alone?

By "concentrating on finances" you mean paying $700 in child support and not being able to afford a place of your own for the following 16 years? Paying rent, insurances, and every bill that comes your way on your own?

By "extra kids" you mean siblings? DSD loves hers on her mom's part. I sure hope she doesn't think of them as dead weight. They are people that enrich her life, and teach her lessons. I hope she has the same to offer to the little ones that DP and I will have one day.

By "not risking another mopping up" you mean avoiding any relationships for the fear of failing? Again, 50% sounds pretty high to me. Sounds like a bad idea to begin with, not just the second time around, kwim. Why not ask then "why get married at all? why have kids at all? 1/2 of you are going to fail anyway. Why put future children through the heartache?

I hope you can see it from a different point of view. I am not willing to admit that DP and I should not have gotten into the relationship, or that DSD would benefit from me being out of the picture.

Here is what I believe: people should not take marriage commitment lightly. When you say "I DO", you better mean "I DO". People should not taking moving in lightly. When you decide to move in with someone when the kids are involved, you better know that person. But to say that relationships shouldn't exist?.. Well, I sure as heck wouldn't miss last 9 years of my life for the world. And no one will convince me that DSD would have been better off if her dad was lonely.

[Shenjall]

Instead of us explaining it to you, why dont you explain it to us why you think its such a bad idea and doomed from the start?
(not snarky, real question)

Eta: I agree with you Oriole!

[ProtoLawyer]

Why get involved with someone with a disability or chronic health issue, given all of the money and medical issues?

Why get involved with someone of a different race or of the same gender, given the societal issues of doing so?

Why get involved with someone who doesn't drive or works for minimum wage or still lives with their parents, given the social stigma?


Every relationship has its difficulties. If I ruled out everyone who came with baggage--be it from a past relationship, present challenge, intrinsic quality, whatever--I'd be single for the rest of my life.

[YoungStepMom]

Originally Posted by Oriole

Well, since you are starting the thread and posting questions - I am only trying to answer them. I'm guessing you started the thread to get a perspective, and perspective is what I have to offer.

Why not deal with the fall out alone? I actually do believe that jumping into a relationship too soon is not a good thing, but it doesn't mean waiting 18 years until the kids are off in college, kwim? DP separated when DSD was 2, and the divorce agreement was settled when she was 4. How long do you think he should be alone? 14-16 years?

By "concentrating on emotional well being" you mean isolating yourself from any potential life long partnership?

By "concentrating on health" you mean living alone, and pulling all of the responsibilities of parenting and work alone?

By "concentrating on finances" you mean paying $700 in child support and not being able to afford a place of your own for the following 16 years? Paying rent, insurances, and every bill that comes your way on your own?

By "extra kids" you mean siblings? DSD loves hers on her mom's part. I sure hope she doesn't think of them as dead weight. They are people that enrich her life, and teach her lessons. I hope she has the same to offer to the little ones that DP and I will have one day.

By "not risking another mopping up" you mean avoiding any relationships for the fear of failing? Again, 50% sounds pretty high to me. Sounds like a bad idea to begin with, not just the second time around, kwim. Why not ask then "why get married at all? why have kids at all? 1/2 of you are going to fail anyway. Why put future children through the heartache?

I hope you can see it from a different point of view. I am not willing to admit that DP and I should not have gotten into the relationship, or that DSD would benefit from me being out of the picture.

Here is what I believe: people should not take marriage commitment lightly. When you say "I DO", you better mean "I DO". People should not taking moving in lightly. When you decide to move in with someone when the kids are involved, you better know that person. But to say that relationships shouldn't exist?.. Well, I sure as heck wouldn't miss last 9 years of my life for the world. And no one will convince me that DSD would have been better off if her dad was lonely.

Yeah that.
I tend to think that if you go into something anticipating failure, you will often fail.

[bits and bobs]

My view is that it's not a bad idea but that I personally would be very hestitant for all the reasons I listed. I totally get all the good things a new relationship can bring, it just would scare the crapola out of me to go into a new relationship with all the extra things. If a first marriage fails 50% of the time and it happened to me, then *I* would be highly reluctant to go into a 2nd marriage with the odds against it succeeding being 2 out of 3. The added issues of step kids, custody, exes, blending etc to *me* make it seem really tough. I would hope to be the one who makes it but even with the best of intentions I am not sure I'd want to put my kids through a second marriage break up with the stats/reality being that way.

[2xy]

I guess I should go upstairs and let DH know that marrying a divorcee with kids was a bad idea. Obviously, our great relationship is just a sham.

[bits and bobs]

Sham is your word, not mine. I never said nor implied anyone's relationship was that.

[2xy]

Okay, you've got me there. But you did imply that my DH should have run away screaming rather than go out with me. Obviously, my being divorced should have been a "massive warning sign."

Like you could ever possibly know the reasons behind someone's divorce before getting to know them.....?

[bits and bobs]

I was speaking in terms of the statistics that say 2 out 3 relationships like yours WILL fail. It may not be YOURS but it *is* a warning sign-> second marriage=high chance of failing, that is reality. If you guys are working, then as I keep saying, I am incredibly pleased.

[Maluhia]

I think the hard thing bitsandbobs is that this parenting board is not just for research, in fact Moms (and Dads) come here and share challenges and successes with one another and to learn how to do a better job. So it's hard when your question come in with a negative thesis - looking at the failure as so possible by concentrating on random numbers, and there is no "share"/understanding perspective. You are trying to present a scientific-style argument to a group who are here to learn and grow and change no matter what satisics or theories (positive or negative) say.

[bits and bobs]

Mahulia, I can accept what you are saying! It shows in any event, there is a lot of love out there for families in all sorts of combinations.

[bits and bobs]

No idealism here, marriages fail. I'm not advocating perfect unions and nor am I blaming exes, step kids etc. I am wondering out loud [immaturely as it turns out!] if it would be "better" for families involved in one failed marriage to then not embark on another relationship that has an even higher chance of failure. I am not placing blame. I am questioning if maybe it would be better for the families to not place themselves in a postion of more heartbreak, and instead just be together themselves.

As to the 'oh so true' stats. I can only offer what I find and not being privy to more sophisticated data neither you nor I can do much more. No one else has come back with other data either!

Everyone here has emphatically said 'no the risk is worth taking'. I accept that and applaud that. The reason I have kept coming back to the thread is because I am having to keep explaining why I asked the question. I want everyone to be in a good relationship and as I have said *I* would be incredibly reluctant to start a relationship with a man who has a family already-maybe my bad luck but I don't deny you or others that choice or that success.

[Oriole]

I think I'm starting to understand exactly what bothers me about the questions and statements: it sounds like you are judging "our" choices (by our, I mean those who come to this board because they are involved in a blended family). Maybe you didn't mean it, but that's the way it comes across.

It sounds like you don't believe that those who get involved with someone who's been divorced, are making good decisions when it comes to raising their kids.

What I understand and respect: if you feel you are a better parent when not involved with anyone because of a previously failed marriage - then you are making a good chioce not to jump into a relationship like that.

However, if you think one parent is a better parent than the other just because they decided not to marry - that's what I don't like, ykwim?

You know your situation, and you know what's right for your children - and if you dont' feel you can go through the stress of blending a family - then it's okay not to get involved. At the same time, it's kind-a hurtful to hear how someone keeps insisting that your relationship shouldn't have been in the first place, and statistically is doomed for a failure when I poured my heart into this man and his child. And I don't plan on stopping any time soon.

DSD is off to college in two years, and all things considered, I'm nothing but proud of all the choices her dad and I made while she was growing up. And that includes not being scared by a statistic when we got involved.

[VocalMinority]

Originally Posted by mild_adventurer

Second marriages with children are more likely than first marriages to fail in the first 3 years...If a second marriage with children makes it through the first 3 years intact, it is 40% more likely to succeed than any first marriage.

That's fascinating and I'd love to know where those statistics came from, so I can throw them around in conversation!

Of course love doesn't conquer all. And personally, I think it's very rare when people actually change. They often mellow with age (thank God) and that can make a huge difference between being a man's bride when he's 22 and being his bride when he's 40. But though the intensity may diminish over time, most abusers will continue to abuse; manipulators will keep manipulating; someone who can't tolerate any anger or conflict will continue to flee from it; and people who are stubborn or argumentative or insecure, etc. will keep the same basic personality.

So, sorry to step on toes, but I DO think a past divorce should be a "massive warning sign". Especially if you're towing around kids who've already suffered through one broken marriage (or relationship) with you, you have a responsibility to them (not to mention yourself) to be super-careful with whom you enter into a new one.

And you need to consider not just why their last marriage failed, but what led that person into a bad marriage in the first place? Even if their ex was the bigger jerk - or if their ex was clearly at fault for the whole divorce - does the person you're attracted to have some pattern of entering into destructive relationships, or of falling in love and then writing that person off as a jerk in a few years when they're ready for a new romance?

I think people tend to fall into two categories, in addressing these issues and deciding to get involved with a divorced person:

1- Those who believe they're more special than the last spouse - or that this new relationship is more special than the last marriage - or who believe the other person has fundamentally changed. I feel for these people, because I think they're foolish and usually destined to repeat the past ("OMG, why didn't I realize from the beginning that if he cheated on Emily, eventually he'd cheat on me, too? How could I have though I was his true soul-mate and things would be different?")

2- Those who make the effort to look deeply and honestly at all the issues and wind up discovering there's a GOOD answer to the questions...because sometimes there IS! Like a PP suggested, a guy who tries to "do the right thing" as a young adult, but who is really with the wrong person and doesn't have the maturity to overcome that hurdle could still be great marriage material, when he meets someone better-suited to him, in his 30's! Or, here's a less simple, real-life example:

My husband and his ex rushed into marriage. He was at a rather heart-sick point in his life and she needed to be rescued financially. I assume neither of them consciously thought about things in such mercenary fashion and truly felt "in love" with each other. But I think their underlying struggles kept them from listening to common sense and admitting they didn't know each other well enough to commit. They got pregnant immediately. Then she learned he's not ALWAYS as charming as when he's wooing a new love interest. He can be very stubborn. He enjoys a good, heated debate (a.k.a. "argument", to someone who hates debating...). Sometimes his sense of humor is completely off-color. He can appear angry when he's actually scared, for example if he sees his child get hurt. And he discovered she has some considerable emotional issues dating back to childhood; that she perceives ANY expression of anger, disagreement or disapproval as a threat, or hatred, or "abuse"; and that once she feels threatened, she feels justified doing or saying whatever it takes to try to destroy the other person (of course, she sees it as defending herself). Soon, she was making false accusations about him, in an effort to keep their child all to herself. There was no choice but to end the marriage. I can't fault him for that. But being so incautious about getting to know her before he created a child with her WAS a failing on his part and I'd be a fool to ignore that. So we didn't marry until we'd spent YEARS getting to know each other through and through and I was certain we are well-matched and it was a sound decision, not just diving into romance. We're most of the way to the 3-year mark and we still love each other very deeply and have a nice family life. My kids, his kid and our new baby all live with us and get along beautifully.

Yes, he was a risk. But going into it with plenty of information, I contend he was a good risk - at least as good a risk as people make when entering into first marriages, where statistically it's 50-50 that they'll divorce!

Yes, his ex is a pain. (GOODNESS can she be a pain!) But if he struggled with cancer or had lost a limb in war, that would also be difficult and inconvenient (and expensive!). But I would not have considered those things sufficient reason to walk away and not marry him!

One last point: I, too, have kids with an ex. (Our story is along the lines of the young couple trying to "do the right thing" but not being able to make it work, then getting married "for real" in their 30's, to other people.) His wife (my kids' step-mom) told me recently that she was never interested in dating a guy with kids, but once she met (and liked) my ex, she realized there was a definite advantage to being able to see up-front what kind of father he is, instead of just hearing him talk about what kind of father he would be some day, and hoping that turned out to be true. You just can't argue with that!

[bits and bobs]

I hope I'm not judging but maybe it feels that way. I am querying, and the answers are all heavily in favour of 'we made the right decision'. I asked my question, I received many insightful answers, explained how I personally feel for myself, explained my question again, received more insightful answers, explained my question etc!

We can leave it here if you like. I'm happy to have a whole new perspective on the subject and you guys have had a chance to present loads of really positive experience for other belnded families. Can we call it win-win?

[Phoenix~Mama]

To sound utterly cliche, but it works well with this... "it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all."

I think there is some amount of heartache in any relationship you enter into... even with friends and family. It's how you deal with it and learn from it and keep going on that makes such a difference and can be so invaluable to children.

I knew the statistics... and was a already a statistic myself when my DH and I ran into each other over 2.5 years ago. But I try not to let fear of some vague number run my life. I loved him and my DSD... we had long talks of commitment and making it work, despite the odds.

I do think it is realistic to say marriages are hard. And realistic to go into a blending family situation knowing off the bat that there will be challenges to face. And I also think it is not for everyone, BUT I do think it should be up to each individual to decide that for themselves and not knock anyone else about their decision.

I totally can respect that you recognize that blending a family would not be ideal for you. Given your attitude towards the failure of it, it is very wise to not enter into a blended situation.

Nothing in life can succeed with a failed doom and gloom approach.

Everyone is different... everyone has their own level of comfort.