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"Your child is endangering my child!"

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have a friend who does not know that I don't vaccinate, but she knows someone else who does not and she totally flew off the handle talking about how she never would have let her too-young-to-be-vaccinated child play with the other (much older) child if she had known because the unvaccinated child was "endangering the life" of her child.

My question is why are children the only ones capable of spreading disease? I spent this morning reading several reports that state that only 1-2% of adults get vaccinated for anything besides the fllu. You don't just get vaccinated as a child. Those vaccines wear off. You have to continue getting them every few years for the rest of your life, right?

So if ony 1-2% of adults are vaccinated, why don't we have rampant disease running through the country? Why don't adults get these awful deadly diseases but children ALL seem to walk around like little Diphtheria petri dishs? At least according to those who are avidly pro-vaccinating children, anyway. I'm pro-vaccines, but we selectively vaccinate, and so far we haven't selected any we deem appropriate in our circumstances.

I believe that vaccines are responsible for the vast majority of the lack of dangerous disease in our country today, but if so many people remain unvaccinated, could it be that its continued absence has something to do with things other than vaccines like better hygeine and overall better living standards? After all, malaria used to be a huge problem in the US and now no one here gets it anymore, but there is no vaccine for malaria.
post #2 of 21
I just got through reading a book that briefly talked about pandemics. A truly deadly historic pandemic.

In the book the author pointed out that when a pandemic hits hundreds of millions of people around the world would die but in the US only about 100,000 would. Why? Because of sanitation, diet and good medical access.
post #3 of 21
Does this person actually believe that vaccines work? Because if they work... then her child can't get sick with diseases that are vaccine-preventable... which means that an unvaccinated child isn't a danger to her child...???
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantufla View Post
Does this person actually believe that vaccines work? Because if they work... then her child can't get sick with diseases that are vaccine-preventable... which means that an unvaccinated child isn't a danger to her child...???
Her argument was that her child was too young to receive vaccines. She didn't say how old, I'm just assuming it was a newborn. Her argument was that the older child was playing with her child and could have given her too-young-to-be-vaccinated child a disease.

My argument is why can't the unvaccinated child hold the baby, but adults who are NOT vaccinated can? Why are only children disease-carriers? I didn't ask my friend if she was vaccinated, but seeing as only 1-2% of adults are, I'm assuming she isn't, either.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by amberskyfire View Post
Her argument was that her child was too young to receive vaccines. She didn't say how old, I'm just assuming it was a newborn. Her argument was that the older child was playing with her child and could have given her too-young-to-be-vaccinated child a disease.

My argument is why can't the unvaccinated child hold the baby, but adults who are NOT vaccinated can? Why are only children disease-carriers? I didn't ask my friend if she was vaccinated, but seeing as only 1-2% of adults are, I'm assuming she isn't, either.
But if her older child is vaccinated, then she is saying that vaccines don't work. She can't have it both ways.
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantufla View Post
But if her older child is vaccinated, then she is saying that vaccines don't work. She can't have it both ways.
No, no, her child was the newborn. The newborn was not vaccinated. The older child ALSO was not vaccinated. Neither child was. Her reasoning was that she couldn't vaccinate her baby because he was too young, so the older child (the child of the friend) should have been vaccinated so as not to pass anything to the newborn.

Sorry, I guess I have a crappy way of explaining things
post #7 of 21
I agree. Know someone who was kicked out of ped practice for not getting all vaxes. Said it was to protect the other kids in the practice, etc. I thought to myself, are they also asking for medical records for all the parents of the vaxed kiddos too? Just seemed a poor excuse to me.
post #8 of 21
Have vaccines eradicated the common-sense practice of not passing newborns around? Vaccinated or not, its prudent to limit a newborn's exposure, considering the 1001 other infectious diseases for which there is no vaccine. Is she breastfeeding and aware of the immunological benefits to her baby?
post #9 of 21
Well, the MMR isn't given until 15 mo, so she could be talking about a significantly older baby.

To the op--I don't agree with your friend's fears, but I would not be comfortable continuing the friendship (having our dc play together) without disclosing that my dc aren't vaccinated. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, should she ever find out.
post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
Well, the MMR isn't given until 15 mo, so she could be talking about a significantly older baby.

To the op--I don't agree with your friend's fears, but I would not be comfortable continuing the friendship (having our dc play together) without disclosing that my dc aren't vaccinated. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, should she ever find out.
Thankfully, we do not live in the same state, but should we ever get the chance to visit one another, I would tell her. Probably she might not care at this point since her baby is now much older and vaccinated.
post #11 of 21
I'm not a vaccine expert. What I do know leads me to avoid them.
However, in answer to your question about adults passing around diseases-
Most of those adults did get vaxed when they were kids. Once you've gone through a full series of certain vaxs you are immune for life. So, most adults are still immune from their childhood vaxs. Also, they may have had the actual diseases as kids- like varicella (chicken pox) and have their own acquired lifelong immunity without needing a vax.
I'm not sure about this but---As an adult, you're really only supposed to follow with tetanus- which isn't contagious anyway.
Additionally, we herd our children into daycare and schools- environments where diseases are easily spread. Kids are not as dilligent with hand washing, covering sneezes, etc.
What your friend fails to realize is that even if the older child had been up to date on their vaxs, they could still bring all kinds of nasty germs to a newborn. So, she was endangering her newborn by exposing them to people.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeliqueW View Post
I'm not a vaccine expert. What I do know leads me to avoid them.
However, in answer to your question about adults passing around diseases-
Most of those adults did get vaxed when they were kids. Once you've gone through a full series of certain vaxs you are immune for life. So, most adults are still immune from their childhood vaxs. Also, they may have had the actual diseases as kids- like varicella (chicken pox) and have their own acquired lifelong immunity without needing a vax.
I'm not sure about this but---As an adult, you're really only supposed to follow with tetanus- which isn't contagious anyway.
Additionally, we herd our children into daycare and schools- environments where diseases are easily spread. Kids are not as dilligent with hand washing, covering sneezes, etc.
What your friend fails to realize is that even if the older child had been up to date on their vaxs, they could still bring all kinds of nasty germs to a newborn. So, she was endangering her newborn by exposing them to people.
I believe this is untrue. I think all vaxes have a waning efficacy and boosters are needed "to keep it working."
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeliqueW View Post
I'm not a vaccine expert. What I do know leads me to avoid them.
However, in answer to your question about adults passing around diseases-
Most of those adults did get vaxed when they were kids. Once you've gone through a full series of certain vaxs you are immune for life. So, most adults are still immune from their childhood vaxs. Also, they may have had the actual diseases as kids- like varicella (chicken pox) and have their own acquired lifelong immunity without needing a vax.
I'm not sure about this but---As an adult, you're really only supposed to follow with tetanus- which isn't contagious anyway.
Additionally, we herd our children into daycare and schools- environments where diseases are easily spread. Kids are not as diligent with hand washing, covering sneezes, etc.
What your friend fails to realize is that even if the older child had been up to date on their vaxs, they could still bring all kinds of nasty germs to a newborn. So, she was endangering her newborn by exposing them to people.

Nope. Not only are new doses of "old" vaccines being continually added to the children's schedule, but the CDC is also promoting an adult vaccine schedule that you can find on their website. They are discovering that vaccines do not give lifelong immunity, and that vaccine induced immunity probably won't last through childhood. You haven't heard the "Do it for Suzy-Q" pertussis vax campaign aimed at the parents and grandparents of young children?

I'm 33 and was vaxed for pertussis, diphtheria, tetanus, measles, mumps, rubella and polio as a child, and I've met moms that had the chicken pox vax as children; I don't think that most 20-40 year olds have natural immunity to those VADs.
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
You haven't heard the "Do it for Suzy-Q" pertussis vax campaign aimed at the parents and grandparents of young children?
And, sadly, getting the pertussis vaccine as an adult won't help children at all. The pertussis vaccine is only protection against the toxin that stays in your lungs and makes you cough. It's not against pertussis itself. You can still just as well get pertussis and you can still pass it to an unvaccinated child. The whole campaign around that vaccination makes me so mad! They are essentially lying to everyone and using fear to drive people to get it.

Of all the vaccines, I think pertussis is one of the most important to give to small children IF you vaccinate, but to tell parents that they need it so they don't pass it to a child? IRRESPONSIBLE!
post #15 of 21
post #16 of 21
The only kids who are in danger of catching diseases from unvaccinated kids are those who are unprotected themselves - either because their vaccine didn't result in immunity, or because they're too young to be vaccinated. And those unprotected kids are every bit as much at risk of catching and passing on diseases as unvaccinated kids. Your friend's too-young-to-be-vaccinated baby was just as much of a danger to other kids as that unvaccinated older kid. (Well, maybe not quite as much, since the baby was probably not exposed to quite as many other kids.)
post #17 of 21
I vaccinate.

My logic was always that the vacciation schedule is generally giving them as young as is safe (i know we all have varying standards of "safe", i use it here with the proviso that i have obviously decided vaccines given on the current UK schedule are safe for my kid) and/or beneficial. Thus if the baby is too young to be vaccinated so long as she is breastfeeding it (i presume with her stance SHE has been vaccinated too) all will be fine. Thus no other child can be a "threat" to mine as regards those illnesses. I personally was more worried about old ladies with large open/weeping cold sores trying to kiss my baby!
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jugs View Post
Have vaccines eradicated the common-sense practice of not passing newborns around? Vaccinated or not, its prudent to limit a newborn's exposure, considering the 1001 other infectious diseases for which there is no vaccine. Is she breastfeeding and aware of the immunological benefits to her baby?
I like this point. There are no vaccines for most infectious diseases. Also, I don't believe any vaccines work at all and vaccines had nothing to do with the decline of diseases (they were all significantly declining before the vaccines were invented), so no way is any unvaccinated child endangering a vaccinated one.
post #19 of 21
What I don't get is the assumption that ALL unvaxxed kids are these horrible infected carried of vpd's. Realistically, if there hasn't been an outbreak of say mumps in your area for 30 years, then the odds of that one unvaxxed child having them or being a carrier are pretty darn slim!
post #20 of 21
But it's not like everyone assumes that. THere are always some crazies in every bunch - i have had a non-vaxer scream at me that my DD's spit was infected with vaccine (months after her last vaccination but just because she IS vaccinated and her kid isn't) and she, by giving a dribbly toy to her DS, was going to "vax her son against her will". Some people just don't understand the mechanics of life.
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