MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH :D Maybe this will help!

[nudhistbudhist]

Hello fellow parent zombies

I just had my first 5 hours straight sleep in a year!!! I am the parent to an EXTREMELY active, high needs, very sensitive little 1 year old who has never slept more than 2 hours straight since the day he was born. My dh, bless his heart, has been almost completely useless at night, and my ds refuses to be comforted by anyone but me. After trying different things for months and months and months, and after several mommy-freak-outs which involved biting pillows and one time, smashing a glass on the floor, I have finally found something that is working for me. I just thought I'd share it in case it happens to resonate with another parent who is at the end of their rope. I didn't even have enough rope left to hang myself

I was looking into different homeschooling options for the future (it takes me a LOOOONG TIME to get organized) and came across Waldorf, which sounded pretty in tune with what we wanted for our kids. Then I stumbled upon the Christopherus waldorf homeschooling audio downloads. I was just kinda browsing through and I saw what called "The Importance of Sleep" and the description was as follows:

"Tips, ideas and advice on how to get your child to go to sleep easily at and early hour (whether you have a family bed or not) and why this is so vital for her health and wellbeing. For those with babies as well as those with older children who might have sleep issues. " here's the link btw:

http://www.christopherushomeschool.o...downloads.html

Ummm, yeah. We are a little beyond "might have sleep issues." But at this point, I thought I might as well try it, because I was so desperate and totally out of ideas. Plus I thought I could put it on my Ipod and listen to it at 2 am when I was STILL awake and going insane with sleep deprivation. So I listened to it and it all made sense, but I was still thinking that it may not work with MY little boy who is sooooo energetic. I have never been able to get him to sleep before 9 pm. 9 PM was "early" for him.

Here's the basics:

Kids need rhythm (not a schedule, btw, its different) though out the day, and a calm, unstimulating environment (esp if you have a high needs babe like mine!!) all day long. This means no more days spent out of the house for extended periods of time unless totally necessary. Even music can be too stimulating if its at the wrong time, too loud or just too often.

Rhythm, which I need to do more reading up on in Waldorf context, means a things happen a certain way with a certain kind of timing that is right for your family. It is not a redundant strict schedule, just as not all rhythm is a monotonous drum beating over and over and over. Its more of a natural flow of eating, relaxing, energetic playing, housework, napping, etc etc. This was a big one for me because I have always been rather scattered in that area.

BEDTIME IS 7:00. As in, sleeping by 7, not just getting into the bedroom at 7. I honestly couldnt see how that was going to work for my little guy. I thought if he was asleep at 7, he'd be up at 4, ready to go. But you know what??? He was ready to get up at 7. HE DID NOT SLEEP THROUGH THE NIGHT, but... he only woke up once in the first hour, once at 1 am, and then up for good at 7. This was the first day I tried this. I was so hopeful to see if it worked that I didnt sleep because I kept waking up to see if he was sleeping. Weird, I know. But the next night was the same for him, and I SLEPT I almost feel human.

If bedtime is 7, then dinner should be between 4:30-5:30. We picked 5, and its working. Also, the food should be light. Something about the liver and processing glucose, blah blah blah. Can't remember it all but thats the jist of it.

Bedtime is bedtime. There is no doubting yourself and thinking "he's not sleeping right away, maybe he's not tired." Guilty as charged!!! I dont know how many times I've done that. Now I just lay in there with him no matter how long it takes (which is not nearly as long as I thought!) and he goes to sleep. The weirdest part is that he is actually going into a deep sleep, so deep that he talks out loud and I go rushing in and he's sound asleep but talking. He's never done that before. I do potty him in the middle of the night, but now he is so sleepy he doesn't even wake up, he just pees in the bowl.

I'm not saying its the end-all solution, but its working for us. And it worked immediatly!!!! I hope this helps someone out there in MDC land I'm going to bed for once, that doesn't depress me

[mama2mygirl]

I'm really excited to read a success story thank you for posting.
I'm trying The No Cry Sleep Solution and it's going okay. (My baby is younger than yours.)
I think I will weep when I get five hours of uniterrupted sleep.

[Louisep]

WOW that's awesome!! It sounds a bit like Sleepless in America from what i understand.

I'm going to try it!

Question though- I also have an active high needs son but he's so much happier outside the house. He gets so bored of his toys and anything else I can find to amuse him. What do you do all day?

[coleybug]

Only have a minute, but for you and DS!

I was just trying to explain to my mother last night that DS should go to bed *earlier*, not later to sleep well.

I'm going to push it back some more tonight.

[justKate]

[nudhistbudhist]

Thank you all for your support. I definately never thought the early bedtime would ever work for us! Good luck with pushing it back. I think its going to take some time for ds bowels to adjust (he woke up to poop on the potty at 10 pm last night) but hopefully it wont take long. we tried NCSS a looong time ago but I cant remember why it wasnt working for us. Probably because I wasnt that sleep deprived yet and I was doubting myself as to whether or not he was actually tired...

My ds prefers to be outside too and doesn't get what "toys" are for. It's getting pretty cold now though (we've had snow and -22c already) so we do a short trip outside while DH feeds all the animals (we have a farm), and then we come inside and do my prenatal yoga (7 months pg) together. This usually just means that we muck about on the floor. For example I will bend over to stretch, and he runs between my legs and tries to kiss me. Then I will throw him on a floor pillow and say "bend and tretch" and bend his legs over his head, stretch his arms, flip him over, make silly faces, etc etc. I showed him how to walk backwards (he LOVES it) and I'm trying to get him to crawl again. He pretty much went from crawling at 5 months to running at 10 months. After we have done some active stuff, we will do a mellow activity like collecting laundry from the bedroom. He's gotten most of his energy out playing on the floor, so he's content to imitate whatever chore I do next.

I have a basket of unmatched socks that he enjoys while I'm sorting. If he gets distracted, I put him in the basket with his "baby" and that usually buys me enough time to finish my laundry. After a mellow activity is when I'd throw in a nap. Or a snack then nap. (as we speak, though, he is standing on the couch turning the lightswitch on and off.) Other activities he enjoys is sweeping and playing with the vacuum (unplugged of course!) dancing together to music (though we will not do it as much as we did!) playing in boxes and suitcases, having a long stick indoors to pound on the floor or to push his ball along with. We have also done sign language with him so he likes to look books and sign what he sees. We also use the bath tub A LOT! I'll put two inches of water in the tub and a whole bunch of recycling (pop bottles, yogurt containers, etc) and put him in there while I clean the bathroom or read a book on the floor. He loves water play!

I'm thinking about buying a waldorf book for more indoor natural play ideas. One thing that we've bought that he actually does play with every day is different drums and a mini piano. He LOVES these! We also have NO TV in our house (i think its been 7 years for me now, and I'm 25, so I'm used to it. I couldnt imagine how wound up DS would be if we had it on all day. We have signing dvd's for long truck rides because he screams in his car seat non-stop if we dont. He needs something to do back there because he is so active, and with signing dvd's it keeps his body engaged while we drive. It is a necessity for us. Without it, we could never drive longer than 15 mins, and we live 25 mins from town. I tried everything I could think of and finally, out of ideas, I bought the portable dvd player. Thank God!)

What do you guys do indoors? Perhaps you have some ideas for us as well!

[Cathieq]

Hi, just stopping by this forum... I wanted to say I thought my oldest was very high needs as a baby, turned out she just needed more sleep than average and was overtired. It's a vicious circle because the more tired they are the harder it is to go to sleep. I think because she has an intense personality (she is 10 years now and still needs more sleep than her 6 year old brother, plus takes longer to fall asleep -- she still likes to be held to calm down before drifting off!). She'd wake every 2 hours at night. I'd recommend as soon as your baby starts acting bored with everything, try having him/her to take a nap -- he/she is probably tired. My 3rd is also intense but now that I know, I've been very careful about his sleep and things have been so much better! He's 18mos. and takes a 3hr midday nap (usually around 12-3) and sleeps at night from 7pm to 8am. I always think "how could he already be tired, he just got up" but he is much happier (and me too) with more sleep. Not sure if that helps, but I think intense kids can need SO much sleep. I guess they have to process everything they are paying attention to

[Louisep]

nudhistbudhist - I love your daily routine! My DS is a little younger and I don't think he would do some of those things because he as the attention span of a fly, but you've given me some ideas and I'll look into that book you mention too. We end up running errands because I run out of things to entertain him with.

Cathieq - I have always been very insistent on getting DS to sleep. He naps three times a day (because he catnaps for 40 minutes) and then he's in bed by 7pm, up by 6am. Of course, the night stretch includes between 5-10 wakings so I'm sure he never gets quite enough sleep. How ever did you get your LO to nap for 3 hours during the day??!!

[heavensearth]

Yay I was so excited to read your post! My little guy is almost 10 months so still in a crib but I imagine us following those principals when he is in his own bed. DS is still swaddled at bedtime, it seems to be his cue that its time for bed. DS will take a long nap during the day, but we're always go go go around here, I think we stay home maybe one day a week so it seems to exhaust him.

Cant wait to check out the link you posted!

[lulu_n2]

Thank You! I think this will help with my 3 yo.

[nudhistbudhist]

We were go go go too until I listened to that audio download and I realized what must be happening... Now we are trying to stick to one day a week unless something else is very important, and then we will go in the morning if possible. From my new understanding of all this thats the best time for those kinds of activities. I just noticed too today that ds is cutting molars. He poked himself in the eye and while he was screaming I saw them. I wonder if he will sleep even better when they are through???

Cathieq- I was just thinking to myself today "is he really tired already?" He had only been awake for an hour and a half but sure enough, he was ready to go for his second nap. Perhaps in the future the two naps will become one?

I was actually beginning to think there was no way of co-sleeping without going insane with such a high needs baby. Thank gosh I'm wrong We are on day 4 of this new daily rhythm thing, and its still working. its 7:15 and he's already in bed!!! I actually never realized how much energy he was draining from me in the later part of the evening when he was going to bed between 9-10. Once he was asleeep, my husband and I would sit in the living room, too drained to say anything but "I'm tired" or "we should go to bed." The last couple nights, we've had time to.... relax! talk! eat ice cream! cuddle! talk about the new baby. I feel like I can handle the idea of adding a new child into my life without the dread of not sleeping for like 3 years

To anyone looking for an activity to do with their baby, I highly recommend sign language. There are lots of baby signs books and dvd's to help you. I can instantly stop him from a tempertantrum or distract him when he's about to touch something he's not supposed to by asking him something that I know he will answer with sign. These little guys need something constructive to do with their little hands, and signing also helps them communicate their needs. DS is 13.5 months and has about 50 signs and around 80 words that he uses regularly. He signs in his sleep sometimes... usually the sign for milk

[Rubber Ducky]

Wow! It's soooo good to hear a success story! Well done to you mama! I want to try this too and it has really given me hope!

[Mamato3wild ponnie]

What an awesome website! Great story of sleep...i do have a question though! What do you do at 7pm...can you give me a step by step? I have tried putting ds#4 down early...but he will nurse both breast and sit up and want down off the bed! Now...i did not have the rest of the house quite...I do...shut our door...no tv..dim lights. Same with nap time...he falls sleep nursing where ever I am. And again...same thing...he is distracted very easily...always has been. My husband used to be able to get him to sleep...but now it's only me! Which makes it hard to leave him with my husband or family even for short periods...i have to make sure he's already napped...or it could be a nightmare.
Last night i was so tired and ready to go to sleep and he was still up going at it. My BIL is visiting us and he put the baby in a handmade mexican swing and after 20 min he fell asleep.

[Cathieq]

Louise, the longer nap came after he dropped his 2 naps and that was only when he turned 16 mos! So I guess you just have to be patient... When he took two naps (I'd say from about 10 mos.) they were more like 1 1/2 hours each, never longer than 2...and with three naps his last one was always short, about 45 minutes or so. One tip I heard with my dd that really helped was to make sure that first nap isn't too far from when they get up for the day... My ds used to get up around 7 and go back down for his am nap around 9/9:30am. Again, it's all on the principle that if you have an intense baby and they stay awake for too long it's really difficult for them to calm down enough to get themselves off to sleep.

Nudhist budhist, I am so glad it seems to be working for you! Just what you need before #2 arrives! I find with ds that if I put him down a bit too early, he just fidgets before happily falling asleep but if I put him down too late he wails... so for both of us earlier is better

[nudhistbudhist]

For our bedtime routine, I'll start with 6:30. We sit on the floor in the living room and ask DS if he wants a massage. He goes and gets his massage oil (the same stuff we've used since he was a newborn. I think the smell is comforting because he associates it with being small and swaddled) and brings it to me and signs "massage" which is rubbing his belly (he made this sign up because I didnt have one.) I lay him on the big floor pillow and put some oil on my hands and massage him. He insists on holding the oil, and asks for more frequently. I pretend to smell his feet while I massage his legs, and do other quiet but silly things to help him stay on the pillow. The house is quiet and all the toys are put away. Then I scoop him up and say "I think its time for boo's and bed." and start walking slowly, kind of rocking him, towards the bedroom. He sometimes puts his head down on my shoulder, or he signs "bed" or says "blanket."

We go into the bedroom and I close the doors and turn off the light. (this is around 6:40-6:45) We lay on the bed. He usually sits up right away and starts blabbering about something (this boy NEVER stops talking) and I wait for him to ask for boo's. Sometimes he climbs on the pillows first, sometimes he climbs on me, sometimes he just starts asking for boo's. I say "we can have boo's but we must lay down." and he lays down beside me with his mouth open. Then he nurses for 10 seconds and sits up again. I usually start singing very quietly, so he has to be quiet himself to hear me. He usually buries his head in the pillows and blankets with his butt in the air and does this weird burrowing crawl while he makes strange little noises. He usually asks for boo's again and I say as before "We can have boo's but we must lay down." Sometimes he cries, sometimes he just lays down and nurses again. He either falls asleep here, or pops off, rolls over and buries his face and falls asleep, or sings while nursing and then climbs on top of me and all over the bed and starts talking again. If that happens, I stop singing and say "Skyy, its bedtime." and then I roll away from him and pretend to sleep. He continues whatever he was doing for a minute, and then realizes I'm not paying attention to him anymore. He either snuggles up against my back and falls asleep, or climbs on me and says "boo's." I ignore him for a minute so he can see I'm not messing around, its bedtime and mommy is not playing. He will then either start making kissing noises and saying "A aing" which is "I love you" because he knows I'm a sucker for that, or whining for boo's. I say "I love you" and kiss him, or "Come lay down" and give him "boo's." Either way, by this point he's tired, and nurses to sleep/nurses then pushes off of me and climbs up his pillow and falls asleep.

This whole process in the bedroom can take anywhere from 5 to 30 mins. BUT if I dont give up and decide he's not tired, he will go to sleep. The reason I ignore him at one point and roll away from him, is because I know now that he is looking to me for a role model. He wants to imitate me. If he see's that mum says bedtime and goes to bed, then he knows the socially correct thing to do is to go to sleep to. Being a social creature, he wants to do what we do. Once I realized that, its been easy

Cathieq- So true! I definatly prefer the fidgeting to the wailing! Maybe its the hormones, but I've been having a hard time dealing with screaming

[Cathieq]

Thanks also for the indoor activity list. We do a lot of the same things -- no TV (except in the car here too!) or interest in toys here either, but I hadn't figured out getting him to help with the laundry... My guy really likes walking around (or climbing things!) with a little wooden tag-along Brio duck that a friend bought him. He is fascinated with keys and I made him a key chain (with real but old keys) that he sticks in the keyholes of an old desk for hours (well, minutes!) of entertainment. He also loves his pretend kitchen -- this saves me when I need to cook. We have it in the kitchen and he "cooks" while I do. He has a mini oven mitt, several small metal pans, and a metal plate plus his own cutlery. It is a hand-me down from a neighbor and is very simple ("oven" door, one circle "stove" and a smaller compartment on top which I guess is a microwave or storage for plates). It makes him feel very important and it is so cute to watch him "cook" things (I'll give him part of the meal like a carrot or potato). Oh, and I also made him a "wallet" because he always wants to steal mine from an old one with those fake credit cards that come in the mail plus some Canadian twonies (which I hope are too big to choke on...)

Your little guy sounds so adorable! I love the story about him signing for milk in his sleep. I wish my little guy could meet him, I bet they'd have fun getting into everything together

[nudhistbudhist]

I'm sure they would get on famously Skyy has an obsession with money. When he was 10 months, I made the mistake of letting him pay the cashier at the grocery store, and now he DEAMaNDS to pay EVERYTIME we go anywhere, even the library :P He hands over the cash and says "money" then holds his hand out waiting for change. Heaven forbid there is no change. Once he saw a lady in her 80's digging through her wallet in the vegtable aisle, and he says "money!" and holds out his hand. she heard him and laughed and gave him 5 cents. I tried to give it back but she wouldnt take it. I was so embarrassed! If anyone leaves their purse on the floor at playgroup, he's right in there saying "Money" and digging around. And because everyone says thank you to him when he gives them money at the till, if you ask him to say thank you, he says and signs it, and then sticks his hand out and says "money!"

I love the play kitchen idea. I saw a really cool wooden one but I assumed it would go over like all the other toys everyone bought him. Maybe I should reconsider. Might stop him from climbing inside the dishwasher and licking peanut butter off the knives and eating random peices of food he finds in there My son loves keys too, but we cant give them to him in the house because we have not found outlet covers that he cant get off. He just has to see you do it once and he's got it. Same with opening bottles and jars. He ate my nipple ointment. I let him play with it for a minute while I put my hair up. I had no idea he could open jars! Sometimes I wonder how I'm going to handle him and a new baby. Just today he asked for an apple. I got him one from the fridge, turn around, and he had pulled out a chair and had climbed on top of the kitchen table and was patting the pumpkins. But, HE'S SLEEPING so I feel I can handle ANYTHING he throws my way

Momato3wildponnie, we have a king and a queen size mattresses on the floor, so if DS wants down off the bed, he can get off and run around. But he gets bored because there are NO toys or anything interesting, and I lay on the bed so he eventually gets bored and lonely and climbs back up

[lucifugous]

congratulations on finding something that works, mama! We are sticking to a 7pm bedtime here now that it's getting dark earlier. It's working out pretty well, though there are sometimes tears involved. Your little man seems very intelligent and expressive!

[Louisep]

I had to read your thread again today to give me renewed hope that it can get better!

Do you think it was the early bedtime, the quieter days, or a combo of both that gave such good results? And did it take you a few days to see results? (I think I read somewhere 4 days?)

[nudhistbudhist]

I think its the combo that makes it all work. But I got results the very first night, I just didnt feel confident it was "really working" until day 4, and then I felt that it was not a coincidence I'm a skeptic of all "methods" so I wanted to be sure before I told anyone it was working BTW, for us, having rhythm and not too much stimulation doesnt mean we don't have a rambunctious afternoon period... We do! It's just that we aren't running all over town, not as much music/radio during the day, etc. There's nothing wrong with getting active Though I'm 7 months pg, I put Skyy on my back and pretend I'm a horse, crawling all over the floor and flipping him upside down. He loves it!

Today is my town day. The first time we are leaving the house after starting our rhythmic days. We'll see how it goes. I NEED this day. I have prenatal yoga and massage, but dad will be with us and Skyy can sleep in the truck when he's tired. He sleeps in the truck now if we put his dvd on. We'll see how much this affects his night. Last night he was up a bit more with a teething fever and some bad gas bleh he can be such a stinky lil human!