Holding a child financially responsible for damage they cause to furniture/home items? - Page 3

[chirp]

Originally Posted by mgossett

I don't think taking money from their savings (money being saved for college, car, etc. given by family members) will teach a young child to behave. They don't understand the value of money because they are provided for. A child who misbehaves needs to be disciplined immediately, and not see the result of his/her actions down the road (emptied savings account). However you decide to discipline there needs to be FOLLOW THROUGH and CONSISTENCY.

If the child is a boy, leave the discipline up to his father or male figure. Us women tend to get emotional about how to handle wild boys and their destructiveness.

that's QUITE a generalization.

and in my case would totally exclude the possibility of immediate consequences...since dh is at work all day.

and actually after a moments thought i realize that dh actually gets more emotionalyl distraught over "bad behavior" since he is not used to dealing with it as much as i am. and he is more attached to our material possessions than i am. he is much more prone to yelling and cold-shouldering.

[bronxmom]

Knowing the actual situation helps a lot. It sounds like she gets super-stressed around school; this is how she acted out. As things have settled, the behavior went away. I'm less worried about "paying back", esp for a first-grader who has a really hard time understanding monetary value (as opposed to use value).

I would use this calm time to talk to her about what stresses her at school and brainstorm together ways that she can express/let go of that stress that are not destructive to other people or other people's things. I'd also talk about what it means when things get destroyed and ask her for suggestions about how to make it better. Honestly, the table sounds like she was angry and dug deep while drawing and it went through to the table - that's irresponsible but it doesn't sound like it was intentional destruction of the table.

She's still growing - there's a lot of time for her to learn this. Sounds like the trajectory is in the right direction but stress makes it harder for her. Patience seems like a key thing here.

I don't agree with others that somehow if we don't "teach" our kids responsibility through consequences then they won't learn. I think kids, like people generally, are basically good and kind. Our job is to help them understand and learn empathy and the impact of their actions on others; we can do that primarily through modeling it ourselves and through explaining to them how what they say/do impacts others. Consequences, 90% of the time imo, doesn't add to that learning process; instead, it's a behavioral technique focused on producing a certain behavior and focuses kids on what it means to them (they get punished) rather than what it means to others. For ex., making a kid pay for the damage to the table doesn't really teach her what it costs to mom & dad, what that table meant, why being careless with other people's things hurts them - it teaches her that she gets in trouble. MIGHT help produce a desired behavior but does it teach the life lesson we're trying to get across?

[phatchristy]

Originally Posted by bronxmom

Consequences, 90% of the time imo, doesn't add to that learning process; instead, it's a behavioral technique focused on producing a certain behavior and focuses kids on what it means to them (they get punished) rather than what it means to others. For ex., making a kid pay for the damage to the table doesn't really teach her what it costs to mom & dad, what that table meant, why being careless with other people's things hurts them - it teaches her that she gets in trouble. MIGHT help produce a desired behavior but does it teach the life lesson we're trying to get across?

Yeah, we've talked A LOT. And, I think it has helped. She doesn't handle stress well (why would any kid?). Thankfully our environment has been really good overall, but we're all even frustrated by the school stuff. Sigh.

With the table, I think I'll have her repair it with me (I need to research how to do it). I'll share with her the story on how we got the table, where we were and all the details. I think she'll like the 'story' of how this was the first major purchase of nice furniture that Daddy and I made 14 years right after we got married.

[34me]

This poll really made me think. My gut responce was to answer 10 years old. That's about the age that all of my kids seemed to "get" that our things all cost us money, we work hard for our money and if we have to spend it on items that we are replacing due to destructiveness, we can't do other things.


But also, this:

Originally Posted by noobmom

If my kid burned down my house, is there any way they could ever pay that back?

My now 13 yo son did burn our house down when he was 10. It was primarily all the inside but since it's a small house we lost all our possessions as well as our home for 5 months. How can you make a 10 yo pay $250,000 ? Of course you can't. It was an accident; but one he could have prevented. So what we did was he had to demo it with us. He spent an entire weekend pulling down drywall, ripping up carpet, etc. It wasn't fun for him or us (or his sister). In fact it majorly sucked. But I think we all learned something.

[ccohenou]

If they are of an age and developmental level where money means something to them and they have some of their own, then I think it's appropriate. It's a feature of the world: we are responsible for making amends for damage that we cause.

[peaceful_mama]

I chose "Other" because it depends on the age of the child, their understanding of money and the cost of the damage caused.

for example, intentionally damaging a dining room table as in the example--it would cost hundreds to buy a new table. That might be something appropriate for a teenager who can get an after school job to earn the $ to replace it.

It would not be an appropriate expectation for a young preschool/early elementary age child to save up hundreds of dollars to replace it.

That said, a younger child could be expected to contribute--like if the child is 5 years old, has $20 in the piggy bank and wants to go get a toy at the toy store, that $20 could go to replacing the expensive item they damaged and they have to start over saving. Is that a significant contribution toward the cost? Not really. But the point is there---you intentionally damage something, you need to make amends to replace. I think the child *would* understand the $$ going to that and having to start over saving for the toy, and that would be my point in doing it.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by phatchristy

With the table, I think I'll have her repair it with me (I need to research how to do it). I'll share with her the story on how we got the table, where we were and all the details. I think she'll like the 'story' of how this was the first major purchase of nice furniture that Daddy and I made 14 years right after we got married.

i think this is a GREAT idea!!! you are showing her the true value of the table - not focusing on its monetary value.

dont erase the deep writing too much though.

that has now added memory to the table and 15 20 years from now as you sit at it with your gchildren you can show them what their mommy or aunt did when they were younger.

and with her other things. just hang in there. you know this too shall pass. i know what's its like to have a child figure out how to handle the stresses and anxiety.

would you believe me if i said i would much rather have my dd 'destroy' stuff than come home down and despondent as she does sometimes.

i really like it that you talk to her a lot. that makes a HUUUUUUUGE difference to our kids you know. its almost like you are accepting them for who their are, their uniqueness - and not merely as children.

[pjs]

When I read the thread title, my first thought was "yeah, like ds (7.5) gouging my dining room table wiht his fork/pencil/whathaveyou!

He has done this repeatedly- in fact I got very angry wiht him the other day after he peppered the table with his sharp pencil point many, many times and not more than 60 seconds later he thrust his sharpened pencil into it as hard as he could!

I'm reluctant to say he has mental issues simply because of his propensity to do this. But he has always been a spirited kid. Obviously I wouldn't make him buy a whole new table, but he has to learn to respect others' things. I think largely for him it is a desire/curiosity to see what's going to happen. Who knows- maybe he's the next greatest wood or marble sculptor!

[GuildJenn]

I think a good way to approach it is to repair it together, or shop together, or whatever. That way you have a chance of reconnecting emotionally and finding out if anything is going on underneath, while giving the life lesson that they should make restitution for those kinds of things.

I don't think it's a problem if the solution is "fun." Honestly in my life sometimes the best things have come out of my mistakes and my willingness to address them (um, when I have been in a place to do that). The lesson is not that you suffer endlessly but that you know if you screw up, fix it... and also it's easier not to screw up in the first place.

While I think sometimes buying their way out is okay, my inclination is pretty much to always look for something more time intensive and bonding.

And for the poll I said about 8 and up. My understanding is 9 is the legal age of reason - the age at which, legally, if you say to a child "don't go down to the lake" and they do, then it's not so much your liability, whereas at age 8, it's your responsibility to make sure they never have unsupervised access to the lake. Obviously that's a ballpark age, but it seems universal enough.