German Shepherds?

[yaM yaM]

I am thinking about adding a German Shepherd puppy to my family sometime soon and want to get some advice and feedback from you knowledgeable ladies.

I have wanted a GS for a while now -- I love how smart and protective they are and yet that they can be gentle and loving. I have heard good things about them with children, as well. Granted that my youngest child is already 9 years old, I still want to hear more about people's experiences with GSs in relation to children. Also, I'd like to know more about their disposition WRT to household life. Are they are hyper and trouble-making as a lot of other breeds can be?

I have had quite a few dogs already in my life and don't feel to eager to invite back into my world the whole chewing-up-everything experience or the running around so hyper in the house that the dog is knocking people over and stuff. Of course, it will be necessary to allow for lots of exercise for the dog, which we plan to do, and our yard is very large as well as fenced, but I have had dogs that these factors didn't help as much as I'd thought they would.

I want to make a really good choice this time because it is such a long-term commitment. Thanks for any advice and experience you're willing to share, friends.

[Mama2Rio]

i had a GS while growing up, and personally, it's not my first choice. we had bad experience, i think inpart to inbreeding (it was a white GS---very rare) who "snapped" suddenly, bit my brother, didn't like men, turned into a very aggressive animal. because of this, i'm just not a fan. as a pup, he chewed a lot, but most pups do (okay he chewed up a coffee table, and an unknown amount of shoes).

but here's a few good notes: my father had one growing up (actually a wolf/sheperd mix) which was a great dog, according to him. my brother has a pit-GS-rotti mix and she is a really good dog, easy to train, and although the breed-mix is not dogs most people would want, she is a great dog, has lots of energy and LOVES children. i think that the socialization of a GS is more important and getting the dog out around lots of people is a must because they are known to be weary of strangers espeically in their home.

There are lots of perfectly good dogs who have been abandond, so if you want to skip the puppy phase, go to the humane society or some other animal shelter where you can find a friendly, well trained, adult dog!

[lucyem]

IMO they are a great breed. You do have to be careful about where they come from. You have to be the alpha dog and you have to make sure they have a job. I do think you will find more aggressive ones but I do think breeding and training and having a job play a big part.

My father's extended family always had german shepherds. We had some when I was little. They were very nice and I never had any fear for my safety. Only one of my aunts still has them. She spends a lot of money on dogs from really good breeders. Then she spends a lot of time working with them. They know the rules of the house. The last couple I met were big babies and so sweet. I would not hesitate to let my little kids play with them and I know her grandchildren did. That being said I know about 28 years ago she had one that bit a neighbor and had to be given away to a farm. My other aunt also had many german shepherds. Her last was on the active side and really needed a job. She was older and not able to deal with the work. He went to the police academy and she got a lab. My sister has 5 or 6 german shepherds at the moment. She works them daily. The last I knew the breed was having hip problems. I am not sure where that stands now. None of the dogs we had in our family ever had any problems with their hips.

The only scary german shepherd I ever met belonged to my farrier. She had come from somewhere in eastern europe from lines bred to be used on border crossings and the like. Someone had imported her for tons of money and then discovered she could not have puppies so gave her to my farrier. She was VERY protective of him and his truck. She also spent her life sitting in that truck. I used to be nervous just walking by the truck. And big dogs normally do not bother me at all.

[CvilleC]

I Love GSDs

Before sharing my experience, I want to make the disclaimer that as with any breed, there are always exceptions to the standard traits. Smart GSDs and ones dumb as rocks, high energy labs and real couch potato labs....and so on and so on.

I grew up with one and have one now. When you research the breed, you'll find that German Shepherds are normally listed as being good family dogs. They love their pack, and that includes children. Although they are known for usually being aloof with strangers and not cuddly, my current GSD loves to lick faces and comes in for pets all the time.

As with any purebred dog, a lot of research needs to done when looking for a breeder. I did not want a breeder who boasted about their dogs having large bones. Many GSDs are much larger than the original standard. Look into their lines as well--working dogs from Germany are going to have a high drive and need to work/play. My current dog is like this, and it means we do fun stuff like agility. But she makes up her own games (sometimes destructive) if not engaged. Yesterday I watched her play in the backyard by herself. She got the lid off a garbage can, turned it upside down, and put her ball in there. She then picked it up and shook it until her ball flew out and she would run after it.

I meet so many people who have a bad GSD story. A neighbor's dog that bit, a GSD that chased, etc. I feel an extra responsibility to make sure my dog is a good example of what the breed is meant to be, and work hard with her.

Something I did not consider is the amazing amount of fur they shed. If you want a fur free home, it's just not going to happen. Daily sweeping and vacuuming are required just to stay on top of it. This is not a big deal to me, but I know it is a consideration for others.

They have lots of puppy energy and have long puppy hoods. It's not uncontrollable or crazy hyper, but they can still act young when they look full grown. I've only seen her really worn at a few times in her life, but this isn't to say she is hyper. She'll settle and snooze by my feet once she realizes I am not going to be playing. They just have amazing endurance.

GSD puppies (and there is nothing cuter) can also be so nippy, and I have the scars to prove it. It was frustrating and I did everything I was supposed to do, but she just had that drive in her that made her pounce on anything that moved. Then one day, it stopped. Some kids get freaked out by the nipping, but a 9 year old can totally handle it.

I love GSDs and probably will always have one. They can be a lot of work, but they are so worth it. Good luck in your search! When I'm procrastinating, I sometimes look at GSD breeder websites for fun. The whole puppy process is an adventure!

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by May May

I have had quite a few dogs already in my life and don't feel to eager to invite back into my world the whole chewing-up-everything experience or the running around so hyper in the house that the dog is knocking people over and stuff.

I think that statement describes many (most?) puppies, so perhaps consider getting an older dog.

Of course, it will be necessary to allow for lots of exercise for the dog, which we plan to do, and our yard is very large as well as fenced, but I have had dogs that these factors didn't help as much as I'd thought they would.

I'm assuming you're not planning for all exercise to be in the yard, right? I think with dogs, and especially working breeds and those that tend to be protective, it is extremely important to walk them. It's good mental stimulation in addition to exercise, and it benefits them to spend time outside of their own "turf".

Other than that, I definitely agree that where you get a GSD is extremely important. They are a popular breed and there are many poor breeders, which is sad especially for a breed with their genetic issues. Focus on finding someone who prioritizes health, temperament, and structural soundness. Also plan to do lots of training - in my experience GSDs really thrive on structure and having a job to do.

[yaM yaM]

Thank you so much for the feedback, mamas! I think it is so neat that so many of you have had such extensive experience with GSDs.

We do plan to bring the dog around with us a lot, so hopefully that will help with the socialization issues and the exercise stuff. Our house sits in front of a neighborhood park so, in addition to our large backyard, we will be able to run around the park together a lot, too, as well as just taking neighborhood walks. My son and I homeschool, so we will be able to spend lots of time with the dog. He or she will be our project.

Originally Posted by Ola_

Other than that, I definitely agree that where you get a GSD is extremely important. They are a popular breed and there are many poor breeders, which is sad especially for a breed with their genetic issues. Focus on finding someone who prioritizes health, temperament, and structural soundness. Also plan to do lots of training - in my experience GSDs really thrive on structure and having a job to do.

So, what indicators would I look for as far as a breeder with these priorities? I wouldn't want to just take someone's word for it that they prioritize health, for example, because their definition could be very different than mine, you know?

Thank you, CvilleC, for the suggestion about not getting one with large bones -- I will keep that in mind.

Ola, what are their genetic issues?

Also, the last time I had a dog was when my first child was very young and the dog was already old. I never did the crate thing with them because it was always just me living with my dogs and they could have free reign. Now I think I will need to do the crate thing. Can someone advise me about how that's done? I want to get started off on the right foot.

[mata]

here you go:

http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/crating.html

[CvilleC]

What a fun project for you and your son!

For breeders, you can ask if the parents (at least the mom) is on grounds to check her out. The breeder should be able to tell you about their hips--there is a whole rating system that you can google to learn about. They should also be able to show you the dogs' pedigrees. This didn't really matter to me bc Maya is just my companion, but it demonstrated that the breeder was serious about her program. I wanted someone who bred primarily GSDs and not a whole bunch of different dogs, and who only had a few litters a year. They should have a puppy policy of sorts, such as what they will do if your puppy has a health problem. They should ask you questions as well, like what you want a dog for (companion, work, protection) and they can help pick the right pup for you. Some breeders will ask how you plan to care on their dogs, and will offer to take the dogs back if you can't care for them. All signs that they really care for their dogs.

If you get to visit the breeder's home site, you'll learn a lot as well. They might restrict you from visiting if the puppies are still babies b/c of parvo, which is understandable. But you should be able to go to look at them before handing over money and taking them home. I wanted a clean spot with happy puppies. I went to one breeder whose puppies hid from humans. Poor things--she said they were shy, but I think there was more to it. Maya's litter ran straight towards me and were really curious about the visitors. If breeder's websites only had pictures of GSDs looking ferocious (Schutzund and the like), I figured they were probably breeding for those crazy drives that I knew I couldn't handle. Not a top priority, but it made me feel good to see kids with their arms around their dogs on my breeder's website. You'll get a feel for the breeders when you talk to them and you can pick up on if they are caring and professional.

Genetic issues include physical traits like the hips. I didn't want ones with super sloped backs. There are also drive issues. If you do another google search, you can learn about the difference between American and German lines for GSDs. People feel strongly about this, as you will see.

For crating, I recommend checking out books to help with the specifics. I like Ian Dunbar. We didn't crate our dog growing up either, and it is such a useful tool. I borrowed a wire one from a friend and now that my dog is done with puppy chewing, I have a light soft sided one. If you make it their happy place, it is a wonderful thing!

And one last word about socializing--do it, but be careful with it. Maya was well socialized with people, so everyone is a potential friend to her. She wasn't interested in playing with dogs, however, and I wish I had listened to her about this. She wasn't initially fearful of other dogs, just not interested. I put her in doggy day care and made her greet every dog we saw. She got snapped at a lot, and had her butt kicked by on off leash dog one time. I've been working with her extensively to undo what she learned from that time. So yes, socialize, but do it selectively and follow your dog's cues.

Keep us updated! I go to mush when I see a puppy.

Originally Posted by May May

Thank you so much for the feedback, mamas! I think it is so neat that so many of you have had such extensive experience with GSDs.

We do plan to bring the dog around with us a lot, so hopefully that will help with the socialization issues and the exercise stuff. Our house sits in front of a neighborhood park so, in addition to our large backyard, we will be able to run around the park together a lot, too, as well as just taking neighborhood walks. My son and I homeschool, so we will be able to spend lots of time with the dog. He or she will be our project.

A

So, what indicators would I look for as far as a breeder with these priorities? I wouldn't want to just take someone's word for it that they prioritize health, for example, because their definition could be very different than mine, you know?

Thank you, CvilleC, for the suggestion about not getting one with large bones -- I will keep that in mind.

Ola, what are their genetic issues?

Also, the last time I had a dog was when my first child was very young and the dog was already old. I never did the crate thing with them because it was always just me living with my dogs and they could have free reign. Now I think I will need to do the crate thing. Can someone advise me about how that's done? I want to get started off on the right foot.

[*Aimee*]

we had HORRIBLE luck with our GSD.

My DH's family always had them and loved them. We went with a breeder who had been breeding for the CA police department for 30 years. We paid a TON of money for a pet quality dog.

He wouldn't stop biting my kids, and a lot. I've owned pitbulls and rottweilers before, and knew how puppies bit but had never seen anything like this. I knew it was a puppy thing so I thought "oh, he'll grow out of it". I hired a dog behaviorist who sucked and made things worse. Then I found our old breeder (for our rottweiler we'd had previously) and he said to get him into shutzhund. He's also the top dog trainer and behaviorist in the state. We started taking him to shutzhund but he was still just nuts!

We socialized him everywhere, with well over 150 people by the time he was 14 weeks, to parks, parades everything. But he was too much dog for us. We gave him to our rottie breeder, who was going to title him in shutzhund to get everything done he needed to become a shutzhund judge. In return, when he breeds his newest rottweiler (WITH a tail ) in March we'll get pick of the litter.

A few weeks later we got a call that our pup, Niles, was "off". He'd started trying to attack, hackles up, teeth bared, children over 9 (my boys are 3 and 1 so he must have loved them, I dunno) and all strangers. Breeder said it was fear aggression. Needles to say he cannot be shutzhund titled.

Our breeder has titled top dogs in the US and Europe and for celebrities. So we trust him completely. Well, he did some research and found out a whole bunch of crappy shady things about the breeder of the puppy. We're talking forged documents, lies, horrible things! I do NOT blame the entire breed but this is more a warning to find a good breeder, and even if you think you have get personal referrals.

Right now Niles is just hanging out with J. (our rottie breeder) until he can find a home that can handle him, and understand what they're fully getting in to. Niles' breeder won't give us our money back and has now stopped returning my calls and emails. J. has promised to still give us a rottie puppy because he feels bad for us and he doesn't want another one (his dog is studding and he gets pick of the litter as payment) but we'll probably still end up giving him around 1000.00.

I can honestly say I'll never get another GSD. To me they seem shifty and crazy, but that's my experience! I just don't think I could ever trust one. But my DH still likes them because he had many positive experiences with his.

I guess I'm just saying to be so careful with the breeder!!

[CvilleC]

Aimee--I'm so sorry about your experience. If you want to tattle (I would!), you should share your story over at the forum on Leerburg's site. Those people are hard core and don't mess around. They might have advice for you as to what steps you can take against the breeder, and hopefully people will read your story and stay away from him.

I almost bought a dog from a man who breeds top competition GSDs and provides dogs to the police force as well. He competes, does Shutzund, the whole nine yards. I just started to get a funny feeling about it though and changed my mind. At Maya's obedience class, there was actually another dog from the litter I was going to purchase a pup from! The puppy was huge and totally wild. She was just batty. I felt like I really dodged a bullet.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about what you went through with Niles. I'm glad he wasn't your first dog altogether.

[OvenSeeksBun]

I will share my two cents

I have a five-year-old German Shepherd, and she is the love of my life. She is my first dog, and I've had her since she was 9 weeks old. I did a great deal of research before I got her. I wanted to be responsible, being a first-time dog owner I didn't want to get in over my head. GSD did prove to be the right breed for me.

I got her from a reputable breeder, and I pretty much spent the first year of her life enrolled in group obedience classes with her. I did lots of socialization, and I've brought her to my work (a preschool/infant daycare) several times. She LOVES kids, and I know she will be a great big sister one day. She could use more exposure to other dogs, because she gets very excited when she sees them, and she barks and pulls hard at the leash. She loves other dogs and plays so nicely when given the chance.

And because no post is complete without a pic (or two)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...e/IMG_1824.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y29...e/IMG_0381.jpg

[Ola_]

Originally Posted by May May

Ola, what are their genetic issues?

GSDs are plagued by a number of genetic issues. Here's a link with some more info on each: http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/ge...eparticle2.htm

I also agree with Cville that I would avoid the ones with the sloped backs - that doesn't look structurally sound to me and it's bred just for show looks as far as I know. For the genetic issues I'd expect a good breeder to have done testing for hips/elbows for both parents (with excellent results) AND have results for at least the past 2-3 generations. I'd also want the Von Wildebrand’s disease test results. I'm not sure which of the other diseases can be tested for, hopefully someone else can chime in with that.

[yaM yaM]

Ok, so, I am getting that the breeder standards are paramount in priority, here. I will really work on that then and do lots of research before getting our dog. Thank you all so much!

Mata, thanks for that link. OvenSeeksBun, I love your username and your cute photos.

[yaM yaM]

Ola, I didn't see your post yet when I just replied. Thank you so much for those tips and for the links. I really appreciate it.

[Noelle C.]

PLEASE avoid a GSD that is bred from show lines! Often times you'll hear people say that all good breeders show their dogs. NOT TRUE. That super-sloped back puts all the weight onto the hips, leading to a VERY high rate of hip dysplasia. It's aesthetically pleasing in the show ring, despite being damaging to their bodies. This is why shows are NOT an important trait when it comes to finding a good breeder. The GSDs with nice, straigh, even backs won't win shows, but are likely to be healthier.

These can be great dogs, but they can also be very dominant. They need a firm hand in their training so they don't end up thinkin of themselves as the leader of the pack. This same dominance is what makes them so protective. This can cause issues with family and friends who come to visit if the dog thinks you are his and everyone else needs to go away now.

Now they can be gentle too, but it's a gamble.

If you want a GSD, definitely be prepared to put in a lot of time training. You might luck out and get a dumb one who does everything you say, but don't count on it. Count on an independent-thinking dog who won't sit just because you tell him to. Smart and obedient are two different things. The obedient dog does as told. The smart dogs wants a reason to do what is told. Smart dogs are a major pain to train.

They can be excellent dogs, and were in my top three breeds before going golden, but just wanted to put out there that these dogs do require a lot of work.