A few questions about Waldorf

[iloveaidan&finley]

I am not a purist, but I've been drawn to this method for many years. Bearing in mind that I probably will not adhere to every tenet of Waldorf, would you recommend Christopherus, Live Education, or Oak Meadow? I have my doubts that I will use it for math, I'm thinking that we'll do Miquon with Noble Knights of Knowledge for fun, do you think that will work? I know I've been asking tons of questions lately! Humor me, I'm overwhelmed! Or if you know of another forum that deals exclusively with these issues, let me know. Thanks!

[annettemarie]

I've never tried Live Education because it was too spendy and they don't let you resell it. Oak Meadow I've used, but I didn't like that it wasn't in main lesson blocks, and drove myself crazy trying to rearrange it into blocks, LOL! There was a lot I liked about it, though. I've heard great things about Christopherus. I've never used one of the whole grade curriculums (I'm just cheap, I guess) but I've used some of her smaller supplemental books and really liked them.

To throw another name in the ring, Melissa Neilson's A Little Garden Flower is a nice framework. It's not a complete curriculum though. She also has a yahoogroup.

Also, some people really like Enki, but again, the cheapness stops me.

What age/grade are you looking for?

[LuxPerpetua]

I'm kind of in a similar boat (except that my dd is only 3.75--I'm just a bit of a research junkie, I think). I had a similar thread about a month ago, and after much research I think we're going to try out both Christopherus and A Little Garden Flower. I personally lean more toward Christopherus, but that's probably because I'm not that fond of the founder of ALGF, as I sent her a nice inquiring email and got a bit of a rushed, snippy one in return. Most everyone I've talked to has loved Christopherus. I looked into Live Ed and decided that it was going to be too pricey. Oak Meadow I've heard is a bit boring. I'm probably going to supplement both math and science and eventually history.

[annettemarie]

I really didn't like OM K-2. Once it hit third, I liked it more, but again, one thing I really like about Waldorf.

[iloveaidan&finley]

Yeah, I have a OM curriculum book for 1st grade and I have to admit that it's really dry and uninspiring. I thought it was just me lacking creativity or not seeing the beauty in it.
I spoke to a lady at Christopherus earlier and she insisted that since he's just turned six that he would be firmly in kindergarten. It's hard for me to accept NO academics whatsoever until next year. He already knows the alphabet, sounds, numbers through 50, he writes constantly. I'm tempted to start their 1st grade curriculum with him with Miquon and Noble Knights of Knowledge on top of it. I know that I'm not terribly knowledgeable on Waldorf, but I do know that learning and education are not an exact science and I need to bear in mind that it is more important to follow his cues rather than strictly adhere to any curriculum just for the sake of doing it. I don't think it would damage him permanently to let him move on if he feels he wants to. I really wanted to blend Charlotte Mason, Montessori and Waldorf into our own curriculum, but the lady at Christopherus was aghast at the idea. She said it would be too confusing to take from all three. (I was thinking literature/copy work and nature walk from Charlotte Mason, Main Lesson and social studies/science as well as art from Waldorf, math from Miquon or Montessori as well as enabling certain aspects of independence a la Montessori). Does that sound crazy?

[annettemarie]

Not crazy at all (says the Waldorf-inspired, Charlotte Mason leaning, classical-liking lady who thinks Montessori's organizational methods are the bomb). But yes, I can see where someone who is a Waldorf purist would be absolutely appalled.

FWIW, I have a kid who turned six at the end of September. He also has a bit of a motor skills delay. We're doing the fairy tales, but I'm putting zero emphasis on writing. We are working on letter and number recognition, and we're doing lots of small motor experiences, some from the Waldorf tradition and some from other traditions. I have some stuff on my blog about what I'm doing with him this year (the tags are Nicholas and maybe kindergarten?) if you want to see what sort of things we do.

[iloveaidan&finley]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Not crazy at all (says the Waldorf-inspired, Charlotte Mason leaning, classical-liking lady who thinks Montessori's organizational methods are the bomb). But yes, I can see where someone who is a Waldorf purist would be absolutely appalled.

FWIW, I have a kid who turned six at the end of September. He also has a bit of a motor skills delay. We're doing the fairy tales, but I'm putting zero emphasis on writing. We are working on letter and number recognition, and we're doing lots of small motor experiences, some from the Waldorf tradition and some from other traditions. I have some stuff on my blog about what I'm doing with him this year (the tags are Nicholas and maybe kindergarten?) if you want to see what sort of things we do.

Thanks for the support! It's good to be encouraged that it won't damage my son permanently to blend methods.

[annettemarie]

Well, I don't know. My kids are pretty twisted.

[Madame Pomfrey]

Waldorf math blocks develop a true understanding of the concepts, and the hands-on activities really help kids to learn the tables. Waldorf uses manipulatives, puppetry, blackboard work, movement games, and main lesson books to build a very holistic and unique relationship with numbers. IMHO, you can add an extra "thread" of math workbooks in the spring of 2nd grade or fall of 3rd grade. In other words, I would suggest no workbooks at all until then. Have a great time!

I have 2 boys: my eldest was not a math natural and my second son was, but both like math because it has always been so very interesting. They BOTH do very well in math and my 9th grader actually just tested really well in math on a 9th grade standardized test; but that would not have been possible if he didn't like math. He has had to work harder at math than any subject. We are using a non-Waldorf high school math program and STILL do a Waldorf math block each semester.

We love Alan Whitehead's math books, and Noble Knights is good for young years, again, with Waldorf Math Blocks. If my kids were younger, I would also consider the Making Math Meaningful guide - we used their middle school curricula and it was really great. I have not seen the other new ones mentioned. I have used Oak Meadow and often recommend it for 1st year people, and I've seen and considered Live Ed more than once. I think with either you will need a math supplement book.

Just an opinion, but if you want to take the best of Waldorf and leave the rest - and I understand because that's what we do - you'll want the BEST, not some triple watered-down version. I have yet to see a pre-packaged curriculum - Waldorf or otherwise - that is strong enough in math or science.

Sorry such a strong opinion,

Lucie

[annettemarie]

That's why the one thing I absolutely love is the whole blocks concept. Not only does it really help the kids dig into the material, but I find it gives me a deeper understanding as well.

I'm highjacking (Sorry!) but I've been looking at Making Math Meaningful. It's good to hear a good review!

[Madame Pomfrey]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Not crazy at all (says the Waldorf-inspired, Charlotte Mason leaning, classical-liking lady who thinks Montessori's organizational methods are the bomb). But yes, I can see where someone who is a Waldorf purist would be absolutely appalled.

FWIW, I have a kid who turned six at the end of September. He also has a bit of a motor skills delay. We're doing the fairy tales, but I'm putting zero emphasis on writing. We are working on letter and number recognition, and we're doing lots of small motor experiences, some from the Waldorf tradition and some from other traditions. I have some stuff on my blog about what I'm doing with him this year (the tags are Nicholas and maybe kindergarten?) if you want to see what sort of things we do.

Maybe I'm also not a Waldorf purist, but I think that sounds just like Waldorf. I agree, being child-centered is number one. I also think that if you go to the source, Waldorf is very child-centered, but you would not usually get that from a canned curriculum.

I have to laugh, though, becuase maybe it's just our circle, but I haven't ment any purists lately. Again, maybe we're just not using the same sources -I'm sure they're out there...somewhere.

Warm regards and thanks for the giggle Annette.

Lucie

[annettemarie]

Well, Lucie, I always think we're pretty Waldorfy, but then someone comes along and tells me I'm not. So I've decided to just stick with being us and to heck with the labels.

[kittywitty]

I'm no purist, but I sure do love Christopherus. IME, it's not hard to blend with other methods, though one of the main points of Waldorf, in a way, are not to push early academics. So I can see how she would have cringed at a 6 yo in Kindergarten. That said, my 7 yo is doing 2nd grade work. Each kid is different and I hate using ages instead of other signs as to whether they are ready. I wouldn't force hours of sit down work on a 6 yo, but I think he'd be ready for Christopherus K or 1.

I have tried every Waldorf curriculum I've found just about except for Live Ed. Enki is super expensive and insanely hard (for me) to actually put together. Christopherus totally converted me and is now the only one I would recommend. It's comprehensive, there are tons of things in there, and you can find them used for a discount.

[iloveaidan&finley]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

I'm no purist, but I sure do love Christopherus. IME, it's not hard to blend with other methods, though one of the main points of Waldorf, in a way, are not to push early academics. So I can see how she would have cringed at a 6 yo in Kindergarten. That said, my 7 yo is doing 2nd grade work. Each kid is different and I hate using ages instead of other signs as to whether they are ready. I wouldn't force hours of sit down work on a 6 yo, but I think he'd be ready for Christopherus K or 1.

I have tried every Waldorf curriculum I've found just about except for Live Ed. Enki is super expensive and insanely hard (for me) to actually put together. Christopherus totally converted me and is now the only one I would recommend. It's comprehensive, there are tons of things in there, and you can find them used for a discount.

Thank you for the insight! I'm not one to push academics, hence me yanking him from the public Montessori three weeks ago. My son is just really into writing and sounding out words (he does it all on his own) and loves math with manipulatives. We're going to get the Noble Knights because I really think he'll like it. As far as everything else goes, we're going to get through this year with a blend of Christopherus K and 1 and possibly supplement in later elementary.
I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only on completely overwhelmed by Enki. I haven't come in contact with the actual curriculum and guides, but just reading through the website made my eyes go cross. Way to much for me to take in. Sounds lovely and all but I don't think it's for me (plus it's WAY too expensive).

[craft_media_hero]

Originally Posted by iloveaidan&finley

Thank you for the insight! I'm not one to push academics, hence me yanking him from the public Montessori three weeks ago. My son is just really into writing and sounding out words (he does it all on his own) and loves math with manipulatives. We're going to get the Noble Knights because I really think he'll like it. As far as everything else goes, we're going to get through this year with a blend of Christopherus K and 1 and possibly supplement in later elementary.
I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only on completely overwhelmed by Enki. I haven't come in contact with the actual curriculum and guides, but just reading through the website made my eyes go cross. Way to much for me to take in. Sounds lovely and all but I don't think it's for me (plus it's WAY too expensive).

Me too. I really would love to use the Enki nature stories for Science, but $70 for one book? And of course, I want to get two grade levels. We can do a lot of other things with that money (like buy DD a nice 3/4 guitar!).....so we're holding off on buying any Enki materials for now.

I think that if we were to use Enki at all, I would have to do it piecemeal (I know that's not the point of the curriculum at all, though), but yeah, it just seems way too overwhelming to me otherwise.

[tankgirl73]

Ha, I just posted a question about Christopherus and then saw this.

I had to laugh at the Waldorf-Charlotte Mason-Montessori blend idea, because that's precisely where my brain is too! I was very drawn to Enki recently because of this -- that's pretty much exactly how they describe Enki, drawing mostly from Waldorf but incorporating the best elements from those as well. However, from a quick post on their forum and a few responses, I don't think it would suit our situation (DS too old to get into it, DD still too young, too hard to coordinate between the two, not to mention the expense and not being "allowed" to resell it if it's not right for us!) though I do love the philosophy.

We've been very Montessori-preschool with DD, and just this past year we've become Charlotte Mason-ey with DS. I've avoided Waldorf because I'm not into the anthroposophic aspect of it, but just recently I've looked into it anyway and I like a lot of the educational approach (if not the woo-woo behind it). Not 100% of it, of course, but I don't like 100% of ANYTHING.

So I'm also looking into ways to structure our days a bit more in a Waldorf way, maybe incorporate some stuff from Christopherus (specifically Form Drawing and Joyful Movement, if not also going to blocks, main lessons, etc)... if I can figure out how to fit it all together, while still MOSTLY using the curriculum we've already got!

[iloveaidan&finley]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Ha, I just posted a question about Christopherus and then saw this.

I had to laugh at the Waldorf-Charlotte Mason-Montessori blend idea, because that's precisely where my brain is too! I was very drawn to Enki recently because of this -- that's pretty much exactly how they describe Enki, drawing mostly from Waldorf but incorporating the best elements from those as well. However, from a quick post on their forum and a few responses, I don't think it would suit our situation (DS too old to get into it, DD still too young, too hard to coordinate between the two, not to mention the expense and not being "allowed" to resell it if it's not right for us!) though I do love the philosophy.

We've been very Montessori-preschool with DD, and just this past year we've become Charlotte Mason-ey with DS. I've avoided Waldorf because I'm not into the anthroposophic aspect of it, but just recently I've looked into it anyway and I like a lot of the educational approach (if not the woo-woo behind it). Not 100% of it, of course, but I don't like 100% of ANYTHING.

So I'm also looking into ways to structure our days a bit more in a Waldorf way, maybe incorporate some stuff from Christopherus (specifically Form Drawing and Joyful Movement, if not also going to blocks, main lessons, etc)... if I can figure out how to fit it all together, while still MOSTLY using the curriculum we've already got!

Ok, so I'm not crazy! I'm not into the anthroposophic/religious aspect of it either, so I'm just going to ignore it when I can. I think we'll adhere to the Christopherus this year and next year do more of a blend once I get used to homeschooling.

[onyxravnos]

kid is fussing but thought i would throw Enki 's name out there...

[craft_media_hero]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Ha, I just posted a question about Christopherus and then saw this.

I had to laugh at the Waldorf-Charlotte Mason-Montessori blend idea, because that's precisely where my brain is too!

So funny, I'm totally feeling drawn this way for us, too. See you on the eclectic thread, lol

[Holiztic]

Originally Posted by iloveaidan&finley

I'm so glad to hear that I'm not the only on completely overwhelmed by Enki. I haven't come in contact with the actual curriculum and guides, but just reading through the website made my eyes go cross. Way to much for me to take in.

I have seen this opinion a few times. I understand the materials are HUGE (which really excites me!), but I am so confused about this opinion of the website. I can't find anything! I keep thinking "For a program that is sooooooo big and full of sooooooo many pages and binders, this website's totally void!" So what am I missing. I see some overviewy stuff, some FAQ answers, a few reviews, a few articles, and a place to buy things. What do you see?

I mean this honestly, BTW. I really feel like I am missing some huge file of articles and such!