AAP: Doc Suggests 'Firing' Patients over Refusal to Vaccinate

[Marnica]

http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingC...AAP/16543#ayk2

Although the AAP stance on us morons that don't vaccinate our kids has always read that we should NOT be fired (although we all know this happens with regularity anyway) some are pushing for the official reccomendation to be the opposite. This article INFURIATED me.

"People don't think probabilistically. They have beliefs and they don't think logically."

yes all non-vaccinating parents are incapable of logical thought.

The birth of fear mongering:

Marshall did offer some tips for persuading parents who don't want to vaccinate to change their mind: Fight fire with fire. The antivaccine movement plays on parents' sympathies by telling heartbreaking stories about deaths and illnesses in children. Marshall said he's not above telling his own story about the child he encountered during his first rotation who was dying from Haemophilus influenzae type b, the leading cause of bacterial meningitis among children before a vaccine was developed.

Once again NOT TRUE. Most of us who have chosen not to vaccinate are making well informed choices based on science, not fear.

and this part made me want to:

How is this for a view of a possible dystopic future: Parents with unvaccinated children all have to take their kids to "alternative" healers for care, and vaccinated children get the best, high standard health care. .....depriving the children of all high quality standard care simply because their parents make foolish choices seems to me unwise and unkind,

Bolding Mine

Yes alternative medicine is a bunch of hooey totally unscientific...has never done anybody a lick of good and kids under the care of an alternative practioner are not getting quality care...and us non-vaccinating families are making foolish choices for our kids, so don't punish the poor kids because their parents are stupid by booting them out of the practice. You know what...keep your practice...Ill stick with my "alternative" practioner!!!

[Sileree]

Ha, what a joke, especially since allopathic treatment of VPD's increases the risk of complications and death (like antibiotics for WC and fever reducers for measles). Best my .

[MyLilPwny]

"vaccinated children get the best, high standard health care" ...or how about "vaccinated children get the worst, number 1 death-inducing health care, according to Life Extension's findings here http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/..._death_01.htm:

The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251.5)

[SunshineJ]

Yeah the one thing I know is that this will never fly simply because it ignores the religion aspect of it. You start getting some of the hollywood actors throwing a fit because this violates their religious freedoms and it'll flop. What never ceases to astound me is that the doctors really are so out of touch with the actual reasons WHY many parents choose not to vaccinate. It's NOT all about autism and "fear"! Until they realize that and address the concerns and reasons as valid, this war will continue and they just won't have a chance of understanding where non-vaxxing parents are coming from.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

What never ceases to astound me is that the doctors really are so out of touch with the actual reasons WHY many parents choose not to vaccinate. It's NOT all about autism and "fear"! Until they realize that and address the concerns and reasons as valid, this war will continue and they just won't have a chance of understanding where non-vaxxing parents are coming from.

This.

Autism was not even on my radar until my doctor FIL told me the whole autism thing was a hoax, vaccines are safe.

And MIL who thinks I am too gentle hearted to see my baby cry when they stick a needle in him.

The reasons WHY can't be addressed as that would open a dailogue that is slightly more tricky to handle. And the concerns of non vaxing parents being repeatedly sidestepped and ignored will have to come to an end at some point. It is just too intimidating to think parents might have a valid concern. Much easier to ignore them and mispresent their concerns.

[CCChanel]

Originally Posted by Marnica

...and us non-vaccinating families are making foolish choices for our kids, so don't punish the poor kids because their parents are stupid by booting them out of the practice.

Excellent point! So THEY are not the ones withholding "quality care" by firing patients...it's the parents using those crazy alternative care "healers".

[Noelle C.]

If by "best, high standard health care" they mean overly-medicated, overly-intervention'd health care that kills more people than anything else, they're welcome to it.

I'm not going to jsutify my reasons for not vaccinating against everything under the sun, and if any doctor tries to get me to reason back, "I don't give a rat's a**," and I'm walking out. My fiance agrees. Using fear to control people is disgusting and wrong, and anyone who needs to resort to fear tactics are only doing so because they have no convincing arguments.

I've had two doctors who literally very nearly killed me with incompetence I've been sick enough to be hospitalized both times I've had the flu vaccine. I've been injured by the medical industry, so why should I blindly follow what they say? (I must say I've had some absolutely wonderful care when it was needed, and would indeed be dead, without question, were it not for one amazing doctor. Too bad she isn't all doctors. I do not want all doctors lumped into one category, so please don't think I'm saying all doctors are bad, just a lot of them!)

If we can be trusted with the decision to sign on the dotted line consenting to chemo versus radiation versus nothing at all, why can't we be trusted with the decision on whether or not to vax? If vaxes are soooooo wonderful and safe and so very nearly foolproof, then those who love vaxes should be secure in their knowledge that they are protected and the rest of us are going to die, eventually leaving the world to vaxers. So what are they afraid of? Being wrong? They can vax is they want. Leave the rest of us alone.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

If we can be trusted with the decision to sign on the dotted line consenting to chemo versus radiation versus nothing at all, why can't we be trusted with the decision on whether or not to vax? If vaxes are soooooo wonderful and safe and so very nearly foolproof, then those who love vaxes should be secure in their knowledge that they are protected and the rest of us are going to die, eventually leaving the world to vaxers. So what are they afraid of? Being wrong? They can vax is they want. Leave the rest of us alone.

Sounds logical, but a provaxer would pull the herd immunity card which we all know is falwed anyway, but that is the basis for why we can choose chemo vs nothing but apply the same to vaxes. If I choose not to vax, It's not just me or my child that will get sick and die, but I will infect everyone else and vaxes are not 100% and there are groups of people that cannot be vaxed. Therefore I should risk myself and my family to protect those people. A choice about chemo will just effect the person who has cancer as it is not contagious. This is all based on the flawed theory of herd immunity.

[Noelle C.]

It's wrong of the "herd immunity" pro-vaxers to say that anyone should be forced to take a risk with themselves or their children for the sake of strangers, and I say this as someone with a bad immune system who can't get vaxes anymore, and so would beneft from said herd-immunity - if it worked exactly as pro-vaxers claim. I can't fathom telling others to risk themselves for my sake.

So much of what we do can legally do effect others that it's crazy-talk to act like not vaxing is the end-all, be-all of awfulness.