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I am furious... what would you have done? UPDATE IN OP - Page 6

post #101 of 235
Having a rowdy 3 yo boy and an easygoing 1 yr old dd I can definitely see the dad's point of view. I could see myself pushing a child over of they tried to hit my dd with a hard object. Not to punish the hitter but to protect my dd.
Also if a toddler just hit my dd in the head then his mom brought him over to kiss her sorry I would NOT turn her face to him on the off chance he hit her again.
post #102 of 235
OP, this guy is not a first-time parent, but from your original post it sounded to me like he has not been the primary caregiver, the one attending the playdates, all along. So he missed being on the other end of this phase with his first dd, right?

North of 60 wrote:

"And I really loath the notion that people are keeping an eye on me in case I "crazily over react, freak out, and get inappropriately physical" with someone's kid all because I only have one child who is young."

If I knew you in real life, I'm sure I wouldn't be watching you like a hawk. For one thing, you have a 3.5 year old, not a year old baby who you have just started bringing to playdates.

But frankly, I think your generalization (that inexperienced parents who fail to use handle routine toddler herding effectively "have a screw loose") is way more insulting and way less useful than my framing. This stuff is not that easy, especially in our culture that does not exactly train people in gentle ways to handle ANYTHING, much less parenting! It's been my experience that the playdate mama who is a nerve-wracking cross to bear when her child is 1 can end up being a pleasure to be around a year later - because her child has spent that year teaching her how toddlers act and what works/doesn't work in terms of redirection and discipline, and she has been wise enough to receive that knowledge and chill out.

I'd hate to think that the skill set and attitude I started with when my youngest was 1 was the skill and and attitude that I need to rely on to parent him successfully through high school. The learning curve is infinite, I hope!
post #103 of 235
DD is 19 months, and at the time usually the eldest when we met other kids. Before we moved here in July she was usually one of the youngest.

If/when one of the older kids hit or played roughly with DD I'd pick her up. To me that would be the immediate reaction. My DD is hurt, she needs me, I need to protect her. I don't need to deal with the other child at all (at that point). The children are small. If I pick up DD none of them can reach her and she is safe.

And at a playdate in someone elses home, of course I'd keep an eye on my friends' children if they are out of the room - just as I'd expect them to keep an eye on DD for me. And if, say J(2,5y) was hurting or attempting to wack either DD or his little sister (6 m), I'd simply remove whatever he used to hit them with. I'd comfort DD (or his sister) in my arms, and suggest he showed us his new train track (this actually happend back in May-June, when J was going through a hitting phase).

I am very protective of DD, but I don't expect little children to behave like little angels. It is my job to protect her, and I can't make certain no other child will try to hurt her. But I can try to prevent it as it is happening, and I can remove her from the situation and comfort her.

DD hasn't started hitting other children yet, she's still at this stage where she's more likely to hurt them by hugging to hard, pulling non-walking crawlers along (to "help" them walk) or knock them over because she's so happy to see them, and they are just too unsteady to cope. I still apologize to the mothers, and ask DD to be gentle with the babies.
post #104 of 235
OP, I just read your update and I mean this in the kindest way possible but you and your dp are WAY WAY WAY overreacting. I mean honestly it is not that big of deal. Your ds is OK right (except the poor baby STILL has a mark?)? Even grown-ups, police or not, can overreact in the heat of the moment especially when defending their young. Most likely he gave your son a mild push to get him away from his daughter. Not the best response but for the love of sanity NOT that big of deal.

ALso don't worry I am sure he will not be coming back to your house after all this and I doubt his wife either. I would not either.
post #105 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola View Post
Honestly, I would not want him around because it sounds like the father, instead of looking at this from a point of developmental age and how he can handle it in a positive manner, got angry at your child. Of course we get upset when other children hurt our children, and we want teach our children how to treat each other, but it sounds like the father was seeing it from a more adult view of motivation and effect. Not that your son might not have fallen down if the father tried to separate the children, but some people don't have the ability to feel the same compassion and understanding for other people's children as they do for their own and they may not take the same care. It's hard to feel that way, it's probably normal, but still, it would concern me.

My husband completely disagrees with me and we just had a little argument. He said, "Eff that, I'm not saying the kid is evil, but if he's hurting my daughter, I'm going to stop him and I won't care if he falls down in the process." I told him that I think that's wrong, that as the adult he has much more responsibility to be gentle, but he disagrees. Oh well, it's not like my husband would ever take kids to a playdate anyway--I think monkeys would fly first.


I had my DH read this also- to see his OP. All he really had to say was this is why dads don't go to playgroups . I think it comes down to the way dads handle kids compared to moms (NOT saying they are wrong but do it differently-please don't flame me).

My OP- why wasn't the offending brush put up for the duration of the day? Why was he able to get a hold of it again?

Instead of making it her fault (she was not watching her child well enough) why not ask or think about why dad didn't leave (this was her house so its not like she can go anywhere) if it was stressing him out so bad (this is what I would've done)? I think everyone in the house was in the wrong here (yup even the "friends") and I have a real hard time EVER having them over again.

Sounds like everyone was inexperienced in playgroups and children.
post #106 of 235
OP, I think you and your DH are overreacting. The other dad should absolutely not have pushed your son, but I can see why they are angry with you. There was a very aggressive boy in my group of friends and he seemed to single out my dd. I got really fed up with his mom's blase attitude toward the hitting and stopped seeing them.

Also, do you get upset when anyone corrects your child, even gently? Because that may be why none of the other moms did anything.

Hitting and rough play IS developmentally appropriate, but that does NOT MEAN IT IS OK. I understand why DD1 hits DD2 but I don't allow it! It sounds like this isn't the first time your DS has hit anyone and I think you need to watch him much more closely in future or you will lose these friends.
post #107 of 235
i'm shocked by how many people here think it's ok to push a 2yr old, yes it wasn't nice for him to hit the baby on the head but that still doesn't justify what the dad did imo.
post #108 of 235
I just wanted to repeat what others have said that it hardly takes any contact for a 2 y/o to literally go flying. I've just held out a hand to prevent my kids from ramming into each other and have been surprised at how easily they uh, tip over
I would still have been VERY upset at the whole situation and aside from your dh wanting to report the dad you seem to be trying to take care of it in a really good way.
At our playgroups people are pretty good at standing in for each other. It would have been better if you had firmly taken the hair brush away or kept your ds with you, but man, you can't always think of everything and be on top of every situation. The dad should have left when he started to get upset at how the situation was playing out instead of yelling.
In this case, I wonder if the other moms who were present might be good to talk to and get some perspective.

Fwiw, I had a similar situation happen. Ds (who REALLY should know better he's 5) threw some sand at the park (I was reading on a bench so yeah, not really with it) and the dad of a little boy near ds ran up yelled "no!" and GRABBED ds's arm! I was livid, but just told the kids we had to leave. An out of control adult is WAY scarier than an out of control kid. I should have said "I'm sorry that my ds threw sand but it is uncalled for for you to grab him." So hard to react appropriately at every moment.
post #109 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer View Post
OP, I just read your update and I mean this in the kindest way possible but you and your dp are WAY WAY WAY overreacting. I mean honestly it is not that big of deal. Your ds is OK right (except the poor baby STILL has a mark?)? Even grown-ups, police or not, can overreact in the heat of the moment especially when defending their young. Most likely he gave your son a mild push to get him away from his daughter. Not the best response but for the love of sanity NOT that big of deal.

ALso don't worry I am sure he will not be coming back to your house after all this and I doubt his wife either. I would not either.
I just can't get this. Since the op's son didn't have a mark, he's perfectly fine and obviously wasn't hurt? Why is it understandable that the dad pushed a 2 year old to protect his child, but not ok that the op and her dh are upset that their 2 year old was pushed down by a yelling, angry adult?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beckyand3littlemonsters View Post
i'm shocked by how many people here think it's ok to push a 2yr old, yes it wasn't nice for him to hit the baby on the head but that still doesn't justify what the dad did imo.
Me too.
post #110 of 235
Holy over reaction, If he pushed him it was to protect his daughter and to make some space between them , I'm sure it wasn't an I'm going to hit this boy because he hit my baby, this baby has a mark on her head that your son made. Personally if your child is in a hitting stage I would keep the playdates to a minimum unless you can be with him 100% of the time. I think you need to calm down, apologize to this family and stay away form each other for a while.

ETA: It's not Ok to push a 2yo, but it sounds like the kids needed to be separated and he pushed him out of the way to keep his DD from getting hit more. Sometimes you have to act in a split second and you can't sit to think what would be the gentlest way to act when your baby is getting hurt.
post #111 of 235
OP, I just read your update. It's interesting that you mentioned that something had happened previously that you were not aware of. I had wondered earlier if that might be the case because that might have helped explain the dad's over the top behavior (not excuse it by any stretch, but explain it).

At this point, I think everyone involved, particularly your husband, might be overreacting and needs to take a step back and regroup. It sounds to me like there is real lack of good communication in this group and some profoundly different expectations and parenting styles.

Personally, I would think about trying to smooth things over with this mom and dad somehow if possible just to keep the peace and be a mature grown up and all that, but definitely not do a playdate with them again (which it sounds highly unlikely they would interested anyway). I wouldn't want to meet up with people who got mad about my child's behavior but rather then come to me and discuss it chose to hold on to that anger and let it fester. I can't imagine getting this angry over another child hitting mine but then not giving the parent an opportunity to correct the situation.
post #112 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola View Post
My husband completely disagrees with me and we just had a little argument. He said, "Eff that, I'm not saying the kid is evil, but if he's hurting my daughter, I'm going to stop him and I won't care if he falls down in the process." I told him that I think that's wrong, that as the adult he has much more responsibility to be gentle, but he disagrees. Oh well, it's not like my husband would ever take kids to a playdate anyway--I think monkeys would fly first.
post #113 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola View Post
My husband completely disagrees with me and we just had a little argument. He said, "Eff that, I'm not saying the kid is evil, but if he's hurting my daughter, I'm going to stop him and I won't care if he falls down in the process." I told him that I think that's wrong, that as the adult he has much more responsibility to be gentle, but he disagrees. Oh well, it's not like my husband would ever take kids to a playdate anyway--I think monkeys would fly first.
My husband said the same thing - he probably wouldn't yell at the child, but he would prevent the child from coming close to DD again, and if he fell down in the process, too bad.

We also both agree that if out child was in a phase of hitting younger children, we would most likely be helicopter parents for a while. While I understand some level of roughness with children of the same age, if someone was parenting in a manner that allowed her older child to hurt mine not once, but at least 3 times, I would be livid and can guarantee I would not be back at your house either.
post #114 of 235
I just read your update and I feel really badly that you were getting yelled at over the phone by the other mom. I would have just hung up the phone in that situation.

Without minimizing the distress your son went through I think it is really out of line for your DP to try to report the other father and I am glad the station was closed. I know your son was very upset but was he physically harmed? I am not trying to minimize how your son must have felt but I very much doubt that the father was trying to hurt him, as everyone has pointed out toddlers fall all the time. The only child with a physical injury was the baby after all. You don't even know the extent of the situation because you didn't witness it yourself and your DP is willing to involve authorities? Do you have any idea what kind of reprecussions that could have for that family? I'm sorry I don't want to take sides but I think that you and your DP have gone way over board.
post #115 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8ermaiden View Post
My husband said the same thing - he probably wouldn't yell at the child, but he would prevent the child from coming close to DD again, and if he fell down in the process, too bad.
A great non-violent way to prevent it is to pick up the baby.
post #116 of 235
I think talking to the mom was good if you don't feel like talking to the dad. But your dh decided to report this guy after you talked to the mom, it sounds as if he did it because she didn't apologise. That seems to be a huge over reaction from here and an incredibly bad reason to report someone to the police.

I can now see even more why this man was upset thoug from your update. Your son had hit his dd before. Then hit his baby twice, leaving a mark. And your response was "I don't know where the hitting is coming from." when he first hit the baby. That sounds dismisive, and the fact is, you do know your son is going through this stage, because he had done it the week before. You chose to allow your tired, cranky, hitting stage toddler to repeatedly hit a baby.

Also, you keep talking about how pushing your son is not the way to teach him not to hit. You're right. But it is also not this man's responsibility to teach your son that. It is your responsitility, just like it is his responsibility to protect his children.

Should he have pushed your son, no. I do wonder though about exactly how your son was pushed, and since you were not there, I think you may be jumping to huge conclusions. If he had pushed your son that hard, I suspect one of your friends would have intervened instead of waiting for you to come in the room, at least I would hope that they would have.
post #117 of 235

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Edited by GoestoShow - 12/17/10 at 9:03am
post #118 of 235
I would also be furious if an adult pushed my toddler, but I have to agree that reporting him is a huge overreaction.
post #119 of 235
OP, I think you are overreacting. I agree, the dad could have found another way to deal with the situation, but it's an exaggeration to qualify this as "assault" or "child abuse". Also, you have too many excuses for you and your ds. If I were the other parent, I wouldn't be very happy about my dk being REPEATEDLY hit to the point of getting marks, and being offered only excuses and apologies. If I knew my dk was going through a hitting stage, I wouldn't turn my back or leave him in the room with other children expecting other adults to take care of him. I would be prepared to physically intervene, or I would take him with me if I needed to leave the room.

Sorry, nak
post #120 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
So a child is lying on his back, screaming with "that cry", there's an out of control adult here and nobody's been hurt. : Riiiiight. Not spanking=/= not hurt.
That's what I see too.

I really can not understand this thread. Clearly everyone is reading the OP and seeing a very different picture. This thread just seems to be bringing out the momma/poppa bear in everyone

I was reading the update and recent posts while nursing my 2 year old BABY. I kept looking at him and imagining him hitting another baby on the head and remembering all of the times his sister whacked him on the head (or whatever)when he was 1. Momma bear has been there to protect, but she never lashed out at another cub. Momma bear picked up the hurt baby and moved away! Maybe there was a snarl. Never a claw. KWIM?

I'm also thinking about all of the playgroups DD went to when she was 2 and under. It was a group of 4 kids. DD was the youngest, the oldest being 9 months older, the next was 7 months older and then 6 months older. This kind of stuff happened all the time, toddlers being toddlers. We moms helped each other out. We never expected there to never be a problem. We certainly never freaked out when it was our kid that was hurt. We did the best we could when our kid was the aggressor. Sometimes we were distracted and things happened that probably could have been avoided but were human and make mistakes. There was no blame. These kinds of situations are age appropriate.

What's not age appropriate is yelling and crying, pushing and shoving, the silent treatment and threatening someone's job.

OP, I'm sorry that the other family is over reacting and seems to be blaming you and your kid. Not that they are wrong for feeling protective and wronged. Just wrong for being so freaking over the top about it.

OP I think you did the best you could at the time. You may have been to lax with supervising your son while he is in this stage. You will learn from this and do better next time. Talk to your DH and settle him down. Nobody needs to have their job threatened because they had a really bad poppa bear moment.
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