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I am furious... what would you have done? UPDATE IN OP - Page 2

post #21 of 235

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Edited by GoestoShow - 12/17/10 at 9:02am
post #22 of 235
I didn't say it was ok, i said it was what i'd do. Would you LET someone, of any age, hit your baby? Would you think "yowza" and push that person away or would you think "well, poor thing is tired and doesn't mean it, i'll ask him politely to stop" while your kid is screaming? I have seen a 2 year old hit a four month old and draw blood, just because you are 2 doesn't mean you can't inflict real harm, whether you meant to or not. In that situation i'm not trying to teach anyone's kid ANYTHING, i'm protecting my baby. Period.
post #23 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom View Post
Not to be rude, but why weren't you in there with your son? Keep in mind, DS is only 18 months and I have no other children, but if I had people at my house or DS was at a playdate somewhere else I would be in the room with him supervising. He is my child, I know him best, and I feel it would be my responsibility to supervise him. This way you could have intervened with any negative behavior (hitting etc.)

I have to say, I get very upset if another child pushes/hits DS. I get angry. Even if it is "age appropriate." If it happens I immediately separate the children and redirect DS to something else not involving the "hitter." I can see the dad's point of view. That said, it is never appropriate to push or yell at someone else's child (IMO).

What were the other moms doing?
This exactly... I have been in too many situations where other parents let their children pummel mine without ANY disapline at all. It drives me up the wall, I would bet that this father was extremely angry by your lack of action on the issue, in which case many many people are going to over react when protecting their children.

In my opinion you should have removed your child long before it went this far.

I would not say it is never apropriate to yell... when injury is imminent, it is.
post #24 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBecGo View Post
I didn't say it was ok, i said it was what i'd do. Would you LET someone, of any age, hit your baby? Would you think "yowza" and push that person away or would you think "well, poor thing is tired and doesn't mean it, i'll ask him politely to stop" while your kid is screaming? I have seen a 2 year old hit a four month old and draw blood, just because you are 2 doesn't mean you can't inflict real harm, whether you meant to or not. In that situation i'm not trying to teach anyone's kid ANYTHING, i'm protecting my baby. Period.
Nope. But if I'd seen a 2.5 year old heading towards my 1 year old with a brush, I probably would have intervened before any contact was made. And, no, I wouldn't push them away. But that's me, I guess.
post #25 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoestoShow View Post
None of us are advocating that as an acceptable reaction. We're simply stating that in the heat of the moment when OUR babies are being hit and possibly hard by what in the moment appears to be an uncontrollable toddler, reactions to protect OUR babies come out. We're stating that what happened between the dad and the OP's son isn't clear and could have been any number of things --- an accident, a gentle tug that caused him to lose his balance, picking up his daughter causing him to lose his balance, or possibly yes that he pushed the toddler. That last is certainly reprehensible, but there are ways the situation could have been prevented by not letting things escalate to that point.
But yet everyone thinks the op is overreacting because she is upset that someone pushed her child. She's just trying to protect her kid too.
post #26 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
A bunch of two and a half year olds need pretty constant supervision. Add a less than one year old to the mix and that only increases the need of adult "help" to make this go well.


Whatever he was having a hard time sharing should have been put away. If he is tired and not able to share something well and the other child is MUCH younger and smaller then you have to be right there. If you don't want another adult handling it (in a way that you don't agree with - which honestly I don't blame you as I don't agree with it either) then YOU need to be right there to handle it yourself. Leaving the situation to someone else means you are leaving it to them. I think both you and the dad hold responsibility in this situation.


Ok, at this point you REALLY need to be right next to him from here on out. He is sending really clear signals that he can't handle this situation without your help. And if my child hurts another child, tired or not, it is now my first responsibility to keep that from happening again. Not refilling another guest's tea is a lesser issue than a baby being hit for a second time. First time unfortunate but kids are kids. Second time is mom's fault and as the parent of the baby, I'd be really mad too.


I don't understand why you are in a different room when your two and a half year old has already hit a baby on the head with a brush. Dad is shouting because his baby is being pummelled.


Yes, a grown man should not push a two year old. But you didn't see what happened. Did he put his arm up to shield his baby from getting hit again and your ds lost his balance when he ran into it? Not knowing how big or coordinated your son is makes it hard to tell. If he was a ways away, there is no way to know if he was actually pushed or fell over and backed away when the dad got mad.


Yes, you are over reacting. You were wrong not to be there to help your son control himself. Reporting him is complete overkill IMO. I think group playdates with kids of this age requires close supervision. I'd expect apologies both directions in the situation you describe. They deserve one because you let your son hit their baby in the head with a brush not once but twice. You deserve one IF he actually pushed your ds. Next time just be there and the whole thing will be avoided.

I completely agree! I wouldn't have been upset the first time the child hit my baby, but you better believe I'd be upset if it happened again.
post #27 of 235
I don't believe that everyone thinks he actually pushed her child.

If he did, then, let the fur fly.

But I think that many of us are thinking that there are many ways a toddler could have ended on the floor upset in a heated moment and was not actually pushed but fell over in the actions of an adult interveining.

Since the OP didn't see it, it is impossible to prove either way.
post #28 of 235
Quote:
But yet everyone thinks the op is overreacting because she is upset that someone pushed her child. She's just trying to protect her kid too.
But he DID protect his kid, and she didn't because she wasn't there. She can't protect her son by reporting this man for pushing him when she wasn't there, after the event. She didn't protect her son, and i'm sure if that man DID push her son, if he hadn't done so he'd be feeling how she is now, horrible, because something happened to his kid and he wasn't there/didn't prevent it.
post #29 of 235
I'm one to agree with other PP on the dad's perspective. My DD is only 4.5mo but our landlady's daughter has a 2yo who is totally out of control at any given time and she doesn't discipline at all. I don't like DD around him unless I am holding her because she was on the floor once and he got way too physical. I didn't shove him but I definitely separated him and he started to cry even though I only said no hitting and pulled his arm away (not hard at all)...His mom was in the room but didn't even seem to notice what he had done.

If someone elses kid is hurting my DD I would definitely be more concerned with my LO and while I wouldn't push another LO I would do what it took to separate them, I think any mom or dad would.
post #30 of 235
I think that both you and the dad were beling somewhat negligent for allowing the hitting to continue-- I agree with pps that you shouldn't have left him in the other room, and I feel equally strongly that the dad should have been monitoring things more closely after the first hit- especially since you had stepped into the other room. I also think that both of you have overreacted. My dd has always been a bit of a spitfire, and I spent many many playgorups during her 2-3 years hovering to try and intercept before conflicts got physical. If there were any parents in the group who I didn't trust to intervene gently, then I would not leave my child with them as the acting adult- especially if my child was already acting tired and cranky. I really think that we need to do our best to not set our kids up for bad behavior-- so after noting his mood and the first incident, both parents should have been on their toes to keep the two children seperated.
post #31 of 235
Two-year-olds seem HUGE to me right now. I know that when my baby is two, she'll seem like a little toddler. But right now, I would be really upset if a two-year-old hit her on the head with an object.
And I do think a two-year-old knows not to hit. They're learning but it's not as innocent as a baby hitting. A baby really has no idea.
I don't think the dad should have pushed but I understand why he was upset.
post #32 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
That's kind of harsh. And I keep seeing these posts about the op's son "beating" and "pummeling" this baby. Where are you all getting that?

I just don't get the reasoning that if someone hits your child, it's ok to push them. How is that teaching either kid anything?
I don't get where beating and pummeling are coming from, either. However, I also don't get where "it's ok to push them" came from. I didn't see anybody saying that it was ok. There's a huge continuum between "okay to push a child" and "report him", yk?

OP: I'd be very upset - a little angry, a little guilty and mostly just upset at the turmoil. I don't like the way the dad in the OP handled it, but I'm honestly even more bothered by the fact that he didn't let your ds apologize to the best of his ability than I am about the pushing. I can see the protective urge kicking in over that, even though it would make me really upset and concerned. The other part - not letting your son apologize - just seems really unnecessarily punitive. (Of course, I was pretty rough and tumble as a kid, and don't even remember injuries I know I received...except the bee sting on my foot...but I remember the times I felt shunned. I'm sure my memories affect my view of which was worse.)

However, I don't see what your dp wants to report him for, or who he wants to report to. This guy just sounds like he's not used to this. While hitting is very age appropriate, that doesn't mean that all 2.5 year olds do it. (My sister and I are 18 months apart, and mom never had trouble with us being physical with each other - not at all.) It can be really scary to see a child who seems SO much bigger hitting your child, and he probably felt that you were just letting your ds do so. His reaction wasn't the greatest - not by a long shot. I just don't think it was report worthy.
post #33 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexsam View Post
I don't believe that everyone thinks he actually pushed her child.

If he did, then, let the fur fly.

But I think that many of us are thinking that there are many ways a toddler could have ended on the floor upset in a heated moment and was not actually pushed but fell over in the actions of an adult interveining.

Since the OP didn't see it, it is impossible to prove either way.
I do believe he did. What I don't believe is that he pushed him hard. Even a little nudge backwards can cause my ds to stumble and fall, and he's turning 4 in Jan.

As others have said, the mother should have been in the room, esp since she knows her child gets this way when he's overtired. My thoughts are that if I'm not there to parent, my kids are essentially at the mercy of someone else's discipline. Not that I approve of all ways of discipline, but someone's got to do something in a situation like that. Just sitting there waiting for Mom to intervene doesn't accomplish much. And no one wants to tattle: "I took the brush away, mom, but I just want you to know that William tried to hit my baby again."

I suspect, like I said, the dad was ticked because he didn't see the boy reprimanded for his behavior, the OP didn't apologize for his behavior to the dad, and the OP left her son for a second time unattended so the "yelling" was probably not so much to express anger towards the boy, but disapproval towards the OP. Kinda like "Where the heck are you and why aren't you watching your son?"
post #34 of 235
I think it's a HUUGE assumption that the dad pushed your son away, toddlers fall on their bottom a lot, especially if they are crying, the other day i put my laptop away because my niece kept banging on the keys and she sat on the floor and cried I didn't even touch her, I guess my brother could have accused me of hitting her going by the way she was crying, but luckily he trusts me and knows that I would never hit her. I personally cannot see a dad in playdate pushing your son in a malicious way. He was probably just separating the kids to protect his baby. I think you need to talk things out with him.
post #35 of 235
Well, this is what I don't get....

The OP hosted a playdate. There were three other adults in the room with the children, and not ONE of them would keep an eye on her kid while she played hostess? Really?

The little boy had already hit once, right? So....none of the adults were "on guard," so to speak? I know I would have been observing the child while his mother left the room for a minute. Three adults in the room, and nobody was paying attention to the kids until after someone gets hurt?

Good grief....whatever happened to friends helping each other out?
post #36 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I don't get where beating and pummeling are coming from, either. However, I also don't get where "it's ok to push them" came from. I didn't see anybody saying that it was ok. There's a huge continuum between "okay to push a child" and "report him", yk?
I get that. I guess I'm just seeing an implication that somehow this boy deserved getting pushed because his mother wasn't supervising and that, at least some, of the pp here have said they'd naturally react that way if someone hit their child.
post #37 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
But yet everyone thinks the op is overreacting because she is upset that someone pushed her child. She's just trying to protect her kid too.
I don't hink she's over reacting by being upset, but I do think reporting him to the authorities is overreacting.
post #38 of 235
Quote:
Well, if you want me to be entirely honest in this WWYD situation, I would have been apologetic (and embarrassed) that my 2.5 year old was hitting his baby over the head with a hairbrush and not allowed them to be alone without very close supervision, even for a second. I would feel understanding that he was angry and upset that his baby was being hit on the head. Since the push wasn't witnessed I don't think I could be angry about it--I agree that he could have been just trying to break them up.
I agree with this totally.

It sounds like it was a rotten day for everybody involved. But "the push" if there was one, was not witnessed (and I have a kid that will dramatically collapse and throw himself across the floor if you brush him accidentally , so that's another possibility). You'd probably be laughed off if you did try to report it, since you have no evidence and since you would have to explain that your son had hit his kid on the head. The dad was protecting his kid and understandably angry. If he reacted in a way you didn't like (yelling), it may be that he was taken by surprise, or it may be that he doesn't know any other way. And you needed to keep your kid close after the first incident.

If it were me in this situation, I would apologize to the dad for my son hurting his daughter. I'd end the playdate immediately because everybody clearly needed time and space to cool way down.

While I totally, totally understand your emotions as a mother, and it sounds like the whole thing was just all around crappy, my perspective is that when I *know* my child has perpetrated an injury on someone else, or instigated a problem, leaving aside everyone else, it is unfair to my child in the long run to give him the status of victim.
post #39 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
Nope. But if I'd seen a 2.5 year old heading towards my 1 year old with a brush, I probably would have intervened before any contact was made.
We don't even know if he saw it. He had two kids there. Maybe something was going on with the older one.
post #40 of 235
Quote:
my perspective is that when I *know* my child has perpetrated an injury on someone else, or instigated a problem, leaving aside everyone else, it is unfair to my child in the long run to give him the status of victim.
Fabulous!
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