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I am furious... what would you have done? UPDATE IN OP - Page 12

post #221 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I think that using a kiss instead of an actual apology is ridiculous. I think it also teaches inappropriate boundaries.
I've seen kisses (or hugs) being used as apologies, spontaneously, by at least half the toddlers I've had dealings with. People can handle it however they want, and I can see someone finding it inappropriate - but it's not ridiculous.
post #222 of 235
IF the dad really shoved your son hard I would agree with you being upset. BUT I know I've had to break my two little ones up before and I hold one in one arm which only leaves the other arm to push the other child away.. never hard.. but so that they step backwards. More than likely that's what the father was doing.. IF the child was SHOVED then maybe you should reevaluate the friendship you have with the other mothers in the room.. Shouldn't they have made a big commotion over it?
Another thing.. it drives me BATTY when a toddler repeatedly hits,bites,pinches my kids. I understand they go through those stages, but if it's happening on a REGULAR basis then that child shouldn't be left unattended by the parent. I don't blame the "dad's" wife at all for being mad. If my child kept being hit by another I'd have to stop having playdates with them.
post #223 of 235
I have been the mom of the only boy in an all girl play group. And, I had "that" kid - the hitter. And, at 2.5 y.o., he did hit just to get a reaction - he would do it seemingly out of the blue, do it calmly and then just sort of watch what the other kid would do (usually cry). I feel really fortunate that I was surrounded by a group of moms that was really understanding and accepting of my son and never labeled him. However, I think they were willing to be accepting and tolerant of his "developmentally appropriate" stage because I basically was glued to him when we were at play groups. I sat right next to him, moved around with him, caught his arm mid-air when he was about to hit (and sometimes, I missed - he was really fast!). If I had to go to the bathroom or do something, I would ask a specific mom to sit with him while I was gone. She had to be glued to him!

I also completely agree that 2 year olds have poor, poor impulse control. But, I think they are also capable of learning that their behaviors have consequences. After a couple of months of this, and no change, I finally decided that we would leave play group if he hit. We talked about it before we would go in ("we are going to X's house to play. You may not hit. If you hit, we will leave." - keep it simple). And, then when he hit (or tried - I was still glued to him at that point), we left. He was sad and cried, and it took a few times. But, he stopped hitting. If the play group was at our house, we ended it at that point.

My experience is that parents are willing to be forgiving when their kids get hurt - as long as you, the offending child's parent, are on top of it.

In the OP's situation, I think both parents are at fault. It is unfortunate that it has escalated to this point. I would take note of what your role in all of this is, what you can do differently next time, and then just let it go.
post #224 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadebug View Post
I have been the mom of the only boy in an all girl play group. And, I had "that" kid - the hitter. And, at 2.5 y.o., he did hit just to get a reaction - he would do it seemingly out of the blue, do it calmly and then just sort of watch what the other kid would do (usually cry). I feel really fortunate that I was surrounded by a group of moms that was really understanding and accepting of my son and never labeled him. However, I think they were willing to be accepting and tolerant of his "developmentally appropriate" stage because I basically was glued to him when we were at play groups. I sat right next to him, moved around with him, caught his arm mid-air when he was about to hit (and sometimes, I missed - he was really fast!). If I had to go to the bathroom or do something, I would ask a specific mom to sit with him while I was gone. She had to be glued to him!

I also completely agree that 2 year olds have poor, poor impulse control. But, I think they are also capable of learning that their behaviors have consequences. After a couple of months of this, and no change, I finally decided that we would leave play group if he hit. We talked about it before we would go in ("we are going to X's house to play. You may not hit. If you hit, we will leave." - keep it simple). And, then when he hit (or tried - I was still glued to him at that point), we left. He was sad and cried, and it took a few times. But, he stopped hitting. If the play group was at our house, we ended it at that point.

My experience is that parents are willing to be forgiving when their kids get hurt - as long as you, the offending child's parent, are on top of it.

In the OP's situation, I think both parents are at fault. It is unfortunate that it has escalated to this point. I would take note of what your role in all of this is, what you can do differently next time, and then just let it go.
I agree 100 percent! As long as you see the mom trying and watching their babe like a hawk during those tough phases you can't really hold it against them... or I can't anyways. Being a mom can be tough, and when I see a momma trying her best but still having a hard time she has my sympathy.
post #225 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I've seen kisses (or hugs) being used as apologies, spontaneously, by at least half the toddlers I've had dealings with. People can handle it however they want, and I can see someone finding it inappropriate - but it's not ridiculous.
Yes to this. My nonverbal 19 month old can't say sorry, he can't sign it either. So if someone is hurt (weather he caused it or not) he tries to comfort them with a pat on the back, a hug, or a kiss. When he is sad/hurt we pick him up, hug him, rub his back and kiss him.
post #226 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post
That's what I see too.

I really can not understand this thread. Clearly everyone is reading the OP and seeing a very different picture. This thread just seems to be bringing out the momma/poppa bear in everyone

I was reading the update and recent posts while nursing my 2 year old BABY. I kept looking at him and imagining him hitting another baby on the head and remembering all of the times his sister whacked him on the head (or whatever)when he was 1. Momma bear has been there to protect, but she never lashed out at another cub. Momma bear picked up the hurt baby and moved away! Maybe there was a snarl. Never a claw. KWIM?

I'm also thinking about all of the playgroups DD went to when she was 2 and under. It was a group of 4 kids. DD was the youngest, the oldest being 9 months older, the next was 7 months older and then 6 months older. This kind of stuff happened all the time, toddlers being toddlers. We moms helped each other out. We never expected there to never be a problem. We certainly never freaked out when it was our kid that was hurt. We did the best we could when our kid was the aggressor. Sometimes we were distracted and things happened that probably could have been avoided but were human and make mistakes. There was no blame. These kinds of situations are age appropriate.

What's not age appropriate is yelling and crying, pushing and shoving, the silent treatment and threatening someone's job.

OP, I'm sorry that the other family is over reacting and seems to be blaming you and your kid. Not that they are wrong for feeling protective and wronged. Just wrong for being so freaking over the top about it.

OP I think you did the best you could at the time. You may have been to lax with supervising your son while he is in this stage. You will learn from this and do better next time. Talk to your DH and settle him down. Nobody needs to have their job threatened because they had a really bad poppa bear moment.

Love this!

ETA:
My kiddlies have been to groups etc, they have been shoved, bitten (so incredibly hard the marks bruised and lasted for days), hit, had things taken off them, they rarely do the same back but on occasion it has been them who has been the aggressor. They do it to each other, but NEVER have I had to to shove someone elses child or push or even touch in most cases. I grab my child and remove them to safety. IF the other child has grabbed onto a part of my child then I GENTLY extricate my child but that is it.

There is no blame, there is no anger, yeah, I get unhappy that my child has been hurt but there is no anger towards the other child or the other parent (except for in two cases where the parent was actually watching and laughing as their child was hitting on mine).

When I am at a friends house and the friend is busy doing something FOR GUESTS in her house, the least I can do is keep an eye on her child/ren while she is busying herself for me.

Another thing, I have had VERY pro smacking friends who would push one of their own kids away if it were hitting another child, but they would never touch one of my children like that, they simply treat my child as I would treat my child and theirs because there is respect there.

As far as what has been said in the OP, its a shame that it went so over the top but parents have to realise that as much as they would like to protect their child from everything, its simply not going to happen. My cousin as a parent is very much like that, but as I keep saying, you learn to fall before you learn to walk and that is the way life is.
post #227 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamadebug View Post
I have been the mom of the only boy in an all girl play group. And, I had "that" kid - the hitter. And, at 2.5 y.o., he did hit just to get a reaction - he would do it seemingly out of the blue, do it calmly and then just sort of watch what the other kid would do (usually cry). I feel really fortunate that I was surrounded by a group of moms that was really understanding and accepting of my son and never labeled him. However, I think they were willing to be accepting and tolerant of his "developmentally appropriate" stage because I basically was glued to him when we were at play groups. I sat right next to him, moved around with him, caught his arm mid-air when he was about to hit (and sometimes, I missed - he was really fast!). If I had to go to the bathroom or do something, I would ask a specific mom to sit with him while I was gone. She had to be glued to him!

I also completely agree that 2 year olds have poor, poor impulse control. But, I think they are also capable of learning that their behaviors have consequences. After a couple of months of this, and no change, I finally decided that we would leave play group if he hit. We talked about it before we would go in ("we are going to X's house to play. You may not hit. If you hit, we will leave." - keep it simple). And, then when he hit (or tried - I was still glued to him at that point), we left. He was sad and cried, and it took a few times. But, he stopped hitting. If the play group was at our house, we ended it at that point.

My experience is that parents are willing to be forgiving when their kids get hurt - as long as you, the offending child's parent, are on top of it.

In the OP's situation, I think both parents are at fault. It is unfortunate that it has escalated to this point. I would take note of what your role in all of this is, what you can do differently next time, and then just let it go.

I agree
post #228 of 235
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ldavis24 View Post
I guess what I don't understand from reading how you could have seen this all if you turned around is, if the dad really shouted at your son wouldn't you have heard it and come running? Also wouldn't you have heard this supposedly major pushing incident (i.e your son yelling as he fell or something). I guess I just am not so believing that your son was violently pushed as your are describing it.

Also it sounds like you asked "did he push my LO??" to which the guest reluctantly replied yes, is that right? I feel badly that your son fell but really I feel like you are trying to make it sound as though this dad literally shoved him away and it just doesn't add up from all that I've read.
like i say i was in the kitchen, about 3 metres away from the sofa.
my son hit, the dad shouted no or oi or something like that and virtually atthe same time the kids start crying and i turn round take a few steps and am there, the dad shouts at me. this all happened within like 3 seconds. there was no time for anyone else to react. i know my sons cry . he didnt "just" fall. i also know the mum who i asked about the pushing. i know her well enough to know that her reluctance is more likely to stem from not wanting to make things worse than what they wereand didnt want to quite admit that she saw my son being pushed iyswim.
if he woldnt have pushed him she would have had no problem saying "ih no, he put his hand out to pick the baby up/to take the brush/..." there is no reason why anyone would say yes when he didnt yk?


Originally Posted by Storm Bride
I've seen kisses (or hugs) being used as apologies, spontaneously, by at least half the toddlers I've had dealings with. People can handle it however they want, and I can see someone finding it inappropriate - but it's not ridiculous.

Yes to this. My nonverbal 19 month old can't say sorry, he can't sign it either. So if someone is hurt (weather he caused it or not) he tries to comfort them with a pat on the back, a hug, or a kiss. When he is sad/hurt we pick him up, hug him, rub his back and kiss him.this exactly. i *do* say sorry if ds wont but as he physically cannot utter the words and cannot sign (and this wouldnt even mean anything to the other person anyway as its so rare here) the only way he can apologize is by giving a kiss, usually on the place the other child got hurt. i have neverhad problems with this and the other parent usually finds it quite cute when he does it yk?
the baby was calm and quite happy by the time we came back down. i did say can you give the baby a kiss then to say sorry? i didnt get any acknowledgement from the whatsoever, he just stood there, silent.
post #229 of 235
Thread Starter 
anyway, im going to leave this now. its just depressing me more and more... just one more thing for those saying iam being unreasonable about wanting to report the dad. *I* dont. i said to dp that i didnt want to ruing my friendship with her. thats why i rang her... just to get shouted at...


dp is very emotional about things and says things in the heat of the moment which dont always happen. i can understand why he would say it (i felt like doing some unreasonable things to the dad too....)...but its not happened.
post #230 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
It's hard to say. He might have been simply trying to break them up, and over-did it a bit. He may not have much experience refereeing children that way, and to him your son is a bigger boy whacking his daughter on the head.

It wasn't the right thing to do, but I would find it hard to judge how bad it was without knowing more about how the dad usually copes.
I agree. When my DS was a newborn and I had him in a carseat at the ped's office, a little kid who was sick ran over and tried to stick his hands in the baby's face. My gut reaction was to block the little boy. True, I didn't push or hit, but it was very firm. Normally, I wouldn't do this to a child and I would be more gentle, but my protective instinct kicked in. If your son is going through this stage an you are aware of it, use your protective instinct and watch him closely. For example, my dog sometimes snaps at other dogs and tries to fight and sometimes not. He just runs around playing. I wouldn't in a million years just stick him inside a dog run and start reading a book because I can't count on him to not cause harm to other dogs there. It stinks, but it is what it is and it's my responsibility.
post #231 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by petra_william View Post
anyway, im going to leave this now. its just depressing me more and more...
In case you ever check back here, I just wanted to say please don't let all this get you down. It's so not worth it. The internet is a harsh and cold place sometimes. But in between the accusations and criticism, there was some great advice from some wise and understanding mothers that have been in your shoes. I hope that doesn't get lost, although I can see how it might. Anyway, take care.
post #232 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post
That's what I see too.

I really can not understand this thread. Clearly everyone is reading the OP and seeing a very different picture. This thread just seems to be bringing out the momma/poppa bear in everyone

I was reading the update and recent posts while nursing my 2 year old BABY. I kept looking at him and imagining him hitting another baby on the head and remembering all of the times his sister whacked him on the head (or whatever)when he was 1. Momma bear has been there to protect, but she never lashed out at another cub. Momma bear picked up the hurt baby and moved away! Maybe there was a snarl. Never a claw. KWIM?

I'm also thinking about all of the playgroups DD went to when she was 2 and under. It was a group of 4 kids. DD was the youngest, the oldest being 9 months older, the next was 7 months older and then 6 months older. This kind of stuff happened all the time, toddlers being toddlers. We moms helped each other out. We never expected there to never be a problem. We certainly never freaked out when it was our kid that was hurt. We did the best we could when our kid was the aggressor. Sometimes we were distracted and things happened that probably could have been avoided but were human and make mistakes. There was no blame. These kinds of situations are age appropriate.

What's not age appropriate is yelling and crying, pushing and shoving, the silent treatment and threatening someone's job.

OP, I'm sorry that the other family is over reacting and seems to be blaming you and your kid. Not that they are wrong for feeling protective and wronged. Just wrong for being so freaking over the top about it.

OP I think you did the best you could at the time. You may have been to lax with supervising your son while he is in this stage. You will learn from this and do better next time. Talk to your DH and settle him down. Nobody needs to have their job threatened because they had a really bad poppa bear moment.
This is the best post in this thread.
post #233 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by petra_william View Post
anyway, im going to leave this now. its just depressing me more and more... just one more thing for those saying iam being unreasonable about wanting to report the dad. *I* dont. i said to dp that i didnt want to ruing my friendship with her. thats why i rang her... just to get shouted at...


.
I understand why the thread probably has you feeling down. It seems like you're going through a lot in your life right now. But as a PP said, there actually is a lot of good advice in some of the posts and I do hope that you can try to be objective enough to see it.

Your son needs you to be glued to him otherwise you may just have this scenario repeated again in the near future.
Best of luck.
post #234 of 235
Make ds your helper when you need him to be near you so he is safe. Most kids love this and will happily leave play to help Mom.

Just a way to think about ds being glued to you at all times. My dd is getting to this point, she is interested in whacking things- people, trees, toys, the dog etc. Is it age appropriate, yes. Is it appropriate to whack a friend's kid, the dog or a tree, Nope. So, while she gets soft things to throw or other distractions, to keep her out of trouble and everyone safe, I take her into the kitchen when I am preparing snacks. She likes to help me get the cups etc.

Just a thought
post #235 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by petra_william View Post
i feel bad enough about this situation as it is.
OP, you feel bad about the situation but have you *learned* anything from it?

You now have 12 pages and counting of views on this now. What do you take away from these exchanges?

What will you do next time your son hits a child with an object? Next time the child of the parent he hits gets really upset with you?

I understand you're having a lot going on in your life right now, I'm sorry to hear that. But none of your problems get solved if you can't or won't see your own part in the development of each situation.

Some situations are really totally out of our control, we didn't cause them or contribute to them.

But most situations we have some control in, and if we only see ourselves and our family members as victims... then know that even more rocky times are ahead because we're not taking the chances we have to at least fix OUR parts of what is not working.

Best of luck OP, I really hope maybe when time passes you'll be able to get some useful, positive lessons out of this situation.
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