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I am furious... what would you have done? UPDATE IN OP - Page 4

post #61 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by alllyssa View Post
I think you are furious at the wrong person. I think it's easier for you to see your son as the victim rather than the aggressor in this situation. If you keep making excuses for your son, he will grow up to think that he can get away with anything.

All this energy that you are spending on blaming the father of the baby for making your son cry IS MISSING THE POINT! Your son hit a baby on the head with a hairbrush! Stopping your son by pushing him away is totally understandable. If the baby were mine, you would be the one unwelcome in the playgroup, not the dad.

You owe the father of the baby an apology. You should be sorry that you left your son unattended after you knew that he had already hit the baby with a brush once. I've got 6 kids and when I know that they are going thru this hitting/pushing stage I follow them around like a hawk or we don't go to places where they have to deal with other little ones. Live and learn,
I really cannot believe that the bolded part is actually said on MDC. Hurting a child for any reason is not ok. Or understandable. The op did talk to her son. He's 2.5, what is she supposed to do, ground him?

Quote:
Originally Posted by luv-my-boys View Post
Than maybe she should have been in the room or ended the playdate early. I would be miffed as well if another child is clearly hitting my child even if its age appropriate and the parent of said child wasnt in the room or supervising him closely enough that it kept reoccuring.
Well apparently, my friends and I are strange. We watch out for all the kids. If a mom steps out, for any reason, we keep an eye on her kids as well. I guess I'm more of a "it takes a village" person. I really doubt I'd spend much time with people if I couldn't trust my kid to be in the same room (with or without me) as them.
post #62 of 235
I don't think the poster was implying that they would hurt the LO by pushing away. At least that is not how I read, I read that she is saying that she would move the LO away, not with the intent to hurt or make the LO fall.
post #63 of 235
While I understand this guy was upset his baby got hit (twice), it sounds like he was being pretty hostile and quite immature...yelling, pushing, having to to state it was on purpose , refusing to let the child properly apologize, leaving without saying goodbye to anyone even the other moms who had nothing to do with it. Pretty ridiculous behavior IMO.

The alleged push by itself could perhaps be explained away if it was not for everything else. I don't think I'd have him back. I'd probably try to have the playdate at a time the mom could be there the whole time.
post #64 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alyantavid View Post
Well apparently, my friends and I are strange. We watch out for all the kids. If a mom steps out, for any reason, we keep an eye on her kids as well. I guess I'm more of a "it takes a village" person. I really doubt I'd spend much time with people if I couldn't trust my kid to be in the same room (with or without me) as them.
Yeah, I guess we're a strange bunch around here too. We all feel comfortable enough with each other to leave the room to go to the kitchen for a second or to go to the bathroom. I'm having a hard time imagining a play date where people didn't. Would everyone take their kid to the bathroom with them or maybe just hold it? Count me out for that kind of get together.
post #65 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverscout View Post
Yeah, I guess we're a strange bunch around here too. We all feel comfortable enough with each other to leave the room to go to the kitchen for a second or to go to the bathroom. I'm having a hard time imagining a play date where people didn't. Would everyone take their kid to the bathroom with them or maybe just hold it? Count me out for that kind of get together.
I can see what you're saying. But if I'm at a play date or having a playdate, and my child is tired and cranky and hitting other children, yes, I would take them with me. On a normal day, no.
post #66 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by alllyssa View Post
I think you are furious at the wrong person. I think it's easier for you to see your son as the victim rather than the aggressor in this situation. If you keep making excuses for your son, he will grow up to think that he can get away with anything.

All this energy that you are spending on blaming the father of the baby for making your son cry IS MISSING THE POINT! Your son hit a baby on the head with a hairbrush! Stopping your son by pushing him away is totally understandable. If the baby were mine, you would be the one unwelcome in the playgroup, not the dad.

You owe the father of the baby an apology. You should be sorry that you left your son unattended after you knew that he had already hit the baby with a brush once. I've got 6 kids and when I know that they are going thru this hitting/pushing stage I follow them around like a hawk or we don't go to places where they have to deal with other little ones. Live and learn,

Come on. Really? The mom of the toddler is the bad guy here?

Quote:
i was then in the kitchen making some cups of tea when i heard the dad say "NO you DONT hit!" in quite a stern voice. i turned round, as the baby girl wasnt crying and he had already given ds a verbal telling off i left it at that, just saying that i dont know where ds has got the hitting from. (he hit her on the head with the brush) i didnt see what happened so going by what the dad said.
Sounds like normal playgroup stuff going on here. Hostess is occupioed, hears another parent deal with an issue involving her son, no one is crying, she moves on. I think it is important to point out that the baby was not crying, so clearly she is not being pummled. perhaps it would have been wise for her to stop and join in the issue, but I am betting that since this was a playgroup among friends there is a certain comfort level here.

Quote:
later:
i am in the kitchen, putting stuff away after drinking the tea or something, mhy back is turned again.
Enough time passed for everone to get finish their tea and probably hang for a little before the following occurs, so I'm assuming at least 30 minutes.

Quote:
next thing i know, DS and baby girl (M) are screaming, crying their eyes out. i go in, confused, thinking ds hurt himself or something. the dad looks at me and *shouts* William just hit M over the head and it WASNT an ACCIDENT!!" I take a second to realize whats going on, M is sat next to her dad crying, DS over a metre away on the floor crying. i just *know* that the dad pushed him over/away.
i take ds upstairs, angry and upset at what has happened, take a few minutes to calm us both down, tell william that we must not hit, its not nice and hurts. i ask him to come back down with me to give M a kiss ot say sorry (he cant *say* sorry yet) so i go back down
Now something happens were both kids are "screaming, crying their eyes out". Baby is hurt, toddler is hurt. Daddy is shouting. This is were a HUGE line was crossed in my opinion. I will allow that parents make mistakes when in momma/daddy bear mode. More on that after the next quote.

Momma deals with her toddler while daddy deals with baby. Momma and toddler attempt to make amends because toddler was in the wrong.

Quote:
the dad is stood holding M, i walk over with DS, lift him up and say give M a kiss then. William looks across but the dad doesnt make any effort to lower M so that DS could say sorry, apart from kissing her bum / legs. he looks away after a while and buries his head in my shoulders and starts crying again, so i take him upstairs and say "lets get you to sleep" as i am upstairs i hear them talking downstiars and then leaving, the two mums calling bye but the dad saying nothing.
This is where thing fell apart. I would expect adult behavior from adults. Momma is dealing with crying toddler again, Daddy is acting like a toddler (maybe because he is a UAV, maybe because he in inexperinced and still in poppa bear mode.)

Everone, kids and adults, needed some space to calm down. I think mom of toddler needs to call and follow up. I think dad of baby needs to call and follow up.

Quote:
i have asked one of the mums whether the dad did push ds and that was confirmed.
Because of this, and the lack of follow up, I think the mom of the toddler is justified in being mad and no longer welcoming of the dad. No matter what the dad had going through his mind, the fact is he reacted to it by pushing a toddler hard enough to make him hurt and cry. I trust the momma to trust her instincts here. I would not trust him with my kid again.
post #67 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverscout View Post
While I understand this guy was upset his baby got hit (twice), it sounds like he was being pretty hostile and quite immature...yelling, pushing, having to to state it was on purpose , refusing to let the child properly apologize, leaving without saying goodbye to anyone even the other moms who had nothing to do with it. Pretty ridiculous behavior IMO.

The alleged push by itself could perhaps be explained away if it was not for everything else. I don't think I'd have him back. I'd probably try to have the playdate at a time the mom could be there the whole time.
I bet he was upset and umcomfortable and embaressed. Remember, the OP was hiding up in a bedroom. That had to be awkward.


The way I picture this "push" from my experience with a determined toddler/preschooler is that maybe the OP's son was running or fixedly coming at the baby to get the brush, maybe multiple times, and the dad put out his hand or arm to stop him, and the 2 year old fell back. Remeber, the OP said the 2 year old was having a hard time with sharing his toys. I think its more than just these two instances upsetting the dad. Maybe the boy was making the whole time unpleasant for the baby.

My ds2 has often gone after one of his brothers and I have to put out my arm to stop him and he falls. My intent is not to make him fall, but it happens.
post #68 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenOfTheMeadow View Post
I can see what you're saying. But if I'm at a play date or having a playdate, and my child is tired and cranky and hitting other children, yes, I would take them with me. On a normal day, no.
I can understand that. But before the big incident, the OP's kid had only hit the baby one time and not even hard enough to result in crying. It's not like he was going around whacking all the other kids and having a terrible time of it. To me, it really didn't sound like a situation that was bad enough to necessitate taking the kid to the kitchen with her to put up the dirty dishes. JMO. Apparently people have varying comfort levels about stuff like this.
post #69 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonMom View Post
I bet he was upset and umcomfortable and embaressed. Remember, the OP was hiding up in a bedroom. That had to be awkward.
I'd hardly call removing the child from the situation in order to calm him down and speak with him about what he had done "hiding." Maybe that is how the guy took it though which would just further solidify my opinion of him.
post #70 of 235
I think it is fairly important to point out that there is only one side of story here....

I highly doubt that the father of more than one child one being a 2 1/2 year old would be this upset over what was discribed.
post #71 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbieB View Post
Because of this, and the lack of follow up, I think the mom of the toddler is justified in being mad and no longer welcoming of the dad. No matter what the dad had going through his mind, the fact is he reacted to it by pushing a toddler hard enough to make him hurt and cry. I trust the momma to trust her instincts here. I would not trust him with my kid again.
Why are some of you saying that the dad here HURT the OP's son? She never said that. If anything, he was crying because he was scared that he had just been disciplined/yelled at by someone he didn't know very well.

Pushing an offending child away DOES NOT EQUAL hurting that child. It's not like he up and spanked him.
post #72 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancta View Post
Why are some of you saying that the dad here HURT the OP's son? She never said that. If anything, he was crying because he was scared that he had just been disciplined/yelled at by someone he didn't know very well.

Pushing an offending child away DOES NOT EQUAL hurting that child. It's not like he up and spanked him.
Yes I'm sure he was scared, having a grown man push him down. He wasn't discliplined by this guy, he was yelled at and pushed. Had this been any other situation a poster on MDC described, I'm sure there would be tons of angry posts about the horror of pushing and yelling at a child.

Whether he was physically hurt or emotionally hurt, he was hurt nonetheless. I don't think that because he might not have bruises, makes it any more ok.
post #73 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonMom View Post
The way I picture this "push" from my experience with a determined toddler/preschooler is that maybe the OP's son was running or fixedly coming at the baby to get the brush, maybe multiple times, and the dad put out his hand or arm to stop him, and the 2 year old fell back. Remeber, the OP said the 2 year old was having a hard time with sharing his toys. I think its more than just these two instances upsetting the dad. Maybe the boy was making the whole time unpleasant for the baby.

My ds2 has often gone after one of his brothers and I have to put out my arm to stop him and he falls. My intent is not to make him fall, but it happens.
If you are reading it that way, I see your point. I did not read it that way at all. I got the picture of 2 isolated incidents, the second one ending with 2 screaming kids, one was bonked on the head, one was pushed so hard he fell back about a meter and a screaming BIG daddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverscout View Post
While I understand this guy was upset his baby got hit (twice), it sounds like he was being pretty hostile and quite immature...yelling, pushing, having to to state it was on purpose , refusing to let the child properly apologize, leaving without saying goodbye to anyone even the other moms who had nothing to do with it. Pretty ridiculous behavior IMO.

The alleged push by itself could perhaps be explained away if it was not for everything else. I don't think I'd have him back. I'd probably try to have the playdate at a time the mom could be there the whole time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by riverscout View Post
I can understand that. But before the big incident, the OP's kid had only hit the baby one time and not even hard enough to result in crying. It's not like he was going around whacking all the other kids and having a terrible time if it. To me, it really didn't sound like a situation that was bad enough to necessitate taking the kid to the kitchen with her to put up the dirty dishes. JMO. Apparently people have varying comfort levels about stuff like this.
ITA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancta View Post
Why are some of you saying that the dad here HURT the OP's son? She never said that. If anything, he was crying because he was scared that he had just been disciplined/yelled at by someone he didn't know very well.

Pushing an offending child away DOES NOT EQUAL hurting that child. It's not like he up and spanked him.
I am trusting the momma to know the difference in her son's cry. She said this:
Quote:
next thing i know, DS and baby girl (M) are screaming, crying their eyes out. i go in, confused, thinking ds hurt himself or something. the dad looks at me and *shouts* William just hit M over the head and it WASNT an ACCIDENT!!" I take a second to realize whats going on, M is sat next to her dad crying, DS over a metre away on the floor crying. i just *know* that the dad pushed him over/away.
A later conversation with witnesses backs her up.
Quote:
i have asked one of the mums whether the dad did push ds and that was confirmed.
post #74 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-sorta-fairytale View Post
OP -
1 - yes, you should have supervised better. Take him with you to the kitchen, ask for help with the tea etc.
2 - I wouldnt want someone in my house who was not aware of normal toddler behavior and acceptable reactions.
Yes, exactly.

OP didn't ask how the situation could have been prevented and what she could do differently next time. Maybe she already has a clear idea about this and doesn't need our advice.

What she asked was what she should do now, and if her anger was appropriate given the situation.

So the Dad may have understandably and appropriately been protective of his daughter; no one wants their baby hit and he needed to act to protect her. And after seeing his daughter hit twice, maybe he was understandably and appropriately angry at the OP for not stepping in earlier or supervising her son. But to express himself the way he did to a two year old- totally over the line. He could have protected his daughter by moving her away. He could have yelled at the OP rather than her son. He could have left.

I get his anger, I'd have felt it too, but if that's how he acts when he's angry, I wouldn't want him around my children.
post #75 of 235
I think the OP just needs to have a talk with the Dad and get things straight so the rest of us (myself included) can stop assuming what exactly happened.

Like another poster said, this is just one side of the story.

The Dad might tell it like this:

"William hit *Jane* on the head with a wooden brush and his mother was nowhere to be found, so I told him no and to stop because that wasn't nice. I didn't scream but I guess I talked louder and firmer than his parents do because his mom didn't give me a very pleased look. She said he's started hitting people lately and she didn't know why.

Then she walked off later and William saw that she was gone and came back over and hit Jane on the head again while I was playing with my oldest, so hard that it really hurt, and as I started to grab Jane out of the way William tried to hit her again so I pushed him back a bit mid-swing so she wouldn't get hit again, but he stumbled and fell on his bottom. I know I scared him but I was worried about Jane and mad at this aggression, and again Mom was nowhere to be found.

Then when she did come, I told her William had done it one purpose so she wouldn't just brush it off like she seemed to earlier, but all she did was take him upstairs. I got no acknowledgment and Jane got no apology. She didn't express any concern that Jane was hurt....guess it was all my fault....

Then later she came down and I was both ticked and embarrassed, and didn't feel like responding. I know that was juvenile but I really felt like this Mom was putting it all on me, as though I was somehow to blame. Sorry, but if you know your child hits and you just leave him with others, you can't expect them to discipline like you would."


Just offering another perspective since no one here, not even the OP, knows what REALLY happened unless the OP and this dad TALK.

post #76 of 235
oops double post
post #77 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Well, this is what I don't get....

The OP hosted a playdate. There were three other adults in the room with the children, and not ONE of them would keep an eye on her kid while she played hostess? Really?

The little boy had already hit once, right? So....none of the adults were "on guard," so to speak? I know I would have been observing the child while his mother left the room for a minute. Three adults in the room, and nobody was paying attention to the kids until after someone gets hurt?

Good grief....whatever happened to friends helping each other out?
Totally!
post #78 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
It's hard to say. He might have been simply trying to break them up, and over-did it a bit. He may not have much experience refereeing children that way, and to him your son is a bigger boy whacking his daughter on the head.

It wasn't the right thing to do, but I would find it hard to judge how bad it was without knowing more about how the dad usually copes.
That is exactly what I thought.

No, it's not okay, but then... this may have been the first time he saw a large group of toddlers interacting.

I guess I'd talk with the mom and explain that she needs to go over the disciplining protocol with him if he's going to take the kids to playdates.

He probably just freaked out seeing his little girl hit. Again, it's NOT okay, and he needs to know that, but- it could have been a first-time, unplanned reaction that he feels bad about now.
post #79 of 235

Invite

I'm not sure you need to worry about inviting him back. When my daughter was about seven months and not walking, an 18 month old whacked her on the head with the hammer to his pounding bench for no reason of any kind in the middle of a neighborhood group playdate. His very nice mother was right there and apologized for him several times (he really wasn't an age to do it himself). I wasn't furious, but we didn't play together after that, because I knew that was where her son was at, and a few months later they moved. When my daughter was about 16 months and just up and toddling, a 2-3 year old boy at her music group was in a temper. He was on the floor as class was ending, and as she toddled by him he grabbed her leg to knock her over. I yelled a loud and angry 'Hey!' because it was all I could muster to stop him in that moment. I was really impressed by his mom's skills - she was on him in an instant, and had him apologize immediately. I kept a good eye on him in the classes after that, because, again, it was clear that that was where he was. If I were the Dad in this situation, I'd be thinking that your son was kind of a menace to littler kids right now, and that you were pretty indifferent to that. So why would I come by again?
post #80 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by cattmom View Post
I'm not sure you need to worry about inviting him back. When my daughter was about seven months and not walking, an 18 month old whacked her on the head with the hammer to his pounding bench for no reason of any kind in the middle of a neighborhood group playdate. His very nice mother was right there and apologized for him several times (he really wasn't an age to do it himself). I wasn't furious, but we didn't play together after that, because I knew that was where her son was at, and a few months later they moved. When my daughter was about 16 months and just up and toddling, a 2-3 year old boy at her music group was in a temper. He was on the floor as class was ending, and as she toddled by him he grabbed her leg to knock her over. I yelled a loud and angry 'Hey!' because it was all I could muster to stop him in that moment. I was really impressed by his mom's skills - she was on him in an instant, and had him apologize immediately. I kept a good eye on him in the classes after that, because, again, it was clear that that was where he was. If I were the Dad in this situation, I'd be thinking that your son was kind of a menace to littler kids right now, and that you were pretty indifferent to that. So why would I come by again?
I agree - you may not even need to worry about banning the dad from your house. I would not come back if your older son did that to my younger daughter. Things just happen too quickly at that age.
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