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What is Classical Education?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Ds is 2.5 and I am starting now to think about and research what direction we'll take with homeschooling in a couple years. I like to have a nice long time to work through things (and I like to research to the hilt!)

Anyway, I won't reveal our leanings (we have a strong leaning) because I want a straight answer to this question (not a "you will/won't like Classical because you like X")

These are the terms/styles I am familiar with so far (at least a little):

Eclectic
Unschooling
Waldorf
Montessori
Charlotte Mason
Enki

and I get that there are varying forms of the above, like Oak Meadow's curricula is Waldorfy but not exclusively Waldorf. and obviously eclectic can become just about anything.

But what the heck does Classical mean? Classical as in Ancient Greece--School of Athens kind of thing? Or does it mean "traditional" like teaching as a traditional school would, but at home?

Huh?

Oh, and please fill in my above list if there are other styles I missed. I'm sure there are tons! I don't mean a list of Curricula providers (like Oak Meadow), but the big bold categories, if you will.

Thanks!
post #2 of 11
The Well Trained Mind sold me on classical... though it seems that if you talk to different people you get different definitions. For us the definition the trivium, a 4 yr cycle of repetition delving deeper each round. I don't consider our approach anywhere near a "traditional" approach. I have an aversion to workbooks and many textbooks. I think they make me twitch lol. There are other books/sites available but if you wanted to start learning right away I would start at TWTM site and branch out from there.
post #3 of 11
To me, a Classical education is a humanities based one where traditional subjects are taught based on traditional concepts of child development. That's my definition in a nutshell!

I guess I'm something of a traditionalist (educationally, at least!)

My larger definition would also include the three stages of development: grammar, when you're just learning the rules; logic, when you have the rules down and are learning how to critically think about the subjects you're studying; and rhetoric, where you're now ready to really run with what you're studying. It would also talk about each of the three four year stages cover more or less the same materials, at different levels, and so by the time the student is ready to study a subject in depth, he's already covered that subject twice before. So while obviously some review will be needed, you won't have to start from scratch. It's very systematic, with the subjects fairly carefully divided. It also tries to be cohesive within each year: so in 2nd, 6th, and 10th grade you study the Medieval and Renaissance period. Not just the history, but you also read fiction books about the period, study the art and music, and for science in those three years you study Chemistry.

One of the things that I PARTICULARLY like about this curriculum is that you study the entire world, not just "European History." Studying separate regions separately is all fine and good for prehistory, but as soon as there is contact, things get complicated. It wasn't until I was really in college before I understood how the history of different regions really matched up, and the connections different regions had with eachother.

Now, as to "traditional" it is kind of a weird word, isn't it? First off, I don't consider the way that public schools teach things to be "traditional." They jump around far too much, and leave out far too many knowledge gaps. For example, in most elementary school classrooms, science or history is something that the teacher kind of gets to when they get to it, and it usually hops around all over the place (history is usually based on holidays). It isn't until middle school that students usually have a separate science class that is divided up by field (biology in 7th grade, etc). And by that time, knowledge is so haphazard and the kids who were in Mrs. Smith's 5th grade class made volcanos but never studied weather, while the kids in Mr. Jones's 5th grade class spent all year learning the different types of clouds but wouldn't be able to identify the parts of a plant to save their lives. William J. Bennett writes a lot about this in his books, in particular there's a pamphlet called James Madison High School where he outlines his ideal curriculum and talks specifically about this problem.

So in this case, "traditional" is used to mean old-fashioned, way back to a time that never actually existed, but I think it makes some of us feel better to feel that we're just returning to our educational roots Way back in the yonder days of yore when we walked 10 miles uphill both ways in the snow to school... and also got a broad, systematic overview of many subjects, instead of just random unit studies done at the teacher's whim. A book that I found really solidified my views on what's wrong with the way that public schools present subjects is "The Schools We Need," by E.D. Hirsch.

As for the traditional view of child development, it's my own personal hill to die on that I think people except children to grow up far too fast, mentally. Teachers and parents expect young children to think like adults, and they just don't. Kids are smart, however, and they learn to regurgitate things that they don't really understand in a way that makes the adults around them think that they learned them. This is why I really like the trivium: the first 4 years are just a year of absorption and regurgitation, and you don't ask the child to analyze the materials in depth or draw broad conclusions. You just ask them to learn all the things that kids love to learn: stories, games, how people lived, what people did, why the magnetized needle points north, what countries are where, what's a conifer and how can you tell it apart from say an oak tree. Kids love to make connections, and some are spurious, but you just kind of roll with it. (The grow up too fast thing is what drew me to Waldorf for a while, but I also believe that kids love science and love to know how things work, and it's a total deal-breaker that in Waldorf you're not supposed to tell kids the truth about anything science-y until they're quite old.)

As you can see from my sig, my children are young and I'm prepared to be flexible based on their needs. However, I've spent a good portion of my life teaching and watching kids, and drawn some overall conclusions that make the Classical model to be my personal ideal way to educate a child. I absolutely understand the appeal of some other curricula, but the Well Trained Mind sold me, and then various other readings I've done on child development and educational theories really cemented my dedication. I don't love every aspect of it: I have no interest in pared down classics for kids, with a few exceptions (there ARE some excellent retellings of various ancient sagas). And the actual Story of the World stuff that you're supposed to read is 1) super dry and 2) too religious for me (though it claims to be secular, it also presents Bible stories as being real history).

The WTM is the ultimate guide to a Classical education, but its popularity has spurned many other variations (just like, as you mention, various different Waldorf curricula offer various different perspectives). As the PP said, if you're interested in the Classical model, the WTM has a wonderful and very active discussion board.

(Eep: sorry for the novel-length reply! Obviously, this is just subject that interests me, and it comes up fairly rarely on this board so I love to expound on it!)
post #4 of 11
Correction: it wasn't James Madison High School (that wouldn't make much sense here, would it?), it was James Madison Elementary School.

And, thanks to the wonders of the internet, I even found the full text. Man, I love ERIC. They have the awesomest collection of random education books.

On page 8, under "The Quest For Content"... well, that section more or less sums up why I love the Classical method.
post #5 of 11
[QUOTE=lach;14566422]

I don't love every aspect of it: I have no interest in pared down classics for kids, with a few exceptions (there ARE some excellent retellings of various ancient sagas). And the actual Story of the World stuff that you're supposed to read is 1) super dry and 2) too religious for me (though it claims to be secular, it also presents Bible stories as being real history).

The WTM is the ultimate guide to a Classical education, but its popularity has spurned many other variations (just like, as you mention, various different Waldorf curricula offer various different perspectives). As the PP said, if you're interested in the Classical model, the WTM has a wonderful and very active discussion board.

(Eep: sorry for the novel-length reply! Obviously, this is just subject that interests me, and it comes up fairly rarely on this board so I love to expound on it!)[/QUOTE}

Do you have any other ideas for how to do history? I love the "idea" of SOTW but, for the reasons you mentioned above, it is not my favorite. Yet, how else would I piece together history in a chronological fashion like that? I really like the idea of studying history like that though, in chronological order, it makes so much sense to see how it all fits together.
post #6 of 11
SOTW is just one spine. I don't use it though. I currently have Children's History of the world (CHOW), Usbourne's Book of World History & Usbourne's Time traveller (starting at the back since it starts at present day and works backwards. I've considered using a Biblioplan for the next cycle which offers up a schedule in which you choose from a couple of recommended spines and then it recommends additional resources for each age group. Presently we are using Sonlight but my children are too far spaced to continue combined long term, plus I've slowly replaced everything except the core with curricula that worked better for us.
post #7 of 11
[QUOTE=momofmine;14566916]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post
Do you have any other ideas for how to do history? I love the "idea" of SOTW but, for the reasons you mentioned above, it is not my favorite. Yet, how else would I piece together history in a chronological fashion like that? I really like the idea of studying history like that though, in chronological order, it makes so much sense to see how it all fits together.
We use "History Odyssey" -- It uses the Usborne Book of World History as it's spine along with SOTW and CHOW -- but frankly, we've done less reading in in SOTW and practically none in CHOW. The added and recommended supplement of History Pockets has been fun and each lesson also has other resources & books, so you can customize the lessons. There was also a thread not too long ago about movies that corresponded with the various SOTW chapters and books.

http://www.pandiapress.com/history_odyssey.htm
The above link has a "try before you buy" offer, as well as sample pages.

ETA: We don't buy most of the resource books listed, but get them from the library.
post #8 of 11
As the PP said, I really like the Usborne books. The Kingfisher books are even better in my opinion, but maybe for slightly older kids. Not too-too old, but I'm not sure I'd expect a child younger than about 3rd grade to appreciate them. YMMV

Genevieve Foster's books are great, but a little dated (you may find yourself editing out the word Negro as you read aloud) but so well written and interesting that I think it would be a shame to completely rule them out.

I've actually been dabbling with the idea of using a high school world history book I happen to have (pre kids I worked as a tutor, and sometimes it was easier for me to buy the textbook rather than just borrow it from the school). I really like it, so far as textbooks go: I think it's well organized and the information is at a pretty basic level, but comprehensive. Which is exactly what I want, right? Obviously it's written for high school kids, but there's no reason I can't base a curriculum off of it: reading certain portions to myself (or out loud, if I think my kids will get it) and then finding age appropriate books at the library and activities.

I don't know if you've been reading the Homeschooling articles on Salon.com (warning: don't read the comments if you have thin skin as a homeschooler!), but the author's wife made an ancient history curriculum last year that she's currently blogging about. She's only put up one post, but I hope she continues it!
post #9 of 11
Usually, when someone around here is talking about a Classical Education, they are referring to the trivium and/or The Well Trained Mind. The book TWTM by Susan Wise Bauer is usually available at libraries if you want to check that out. It gives a very good explanation and overview of the trivium.

We like to study history in a chronological order in our home as well. We happen to really like History Odyssey by Pandia Press. As our spines we use The Kingfisher History Encyclopedia and The Usborne Internet-Linked Encyclopedia of World History. We also have on hand the World Social Studies Yellow Pages, History Pockets, and most of the additional readings that HO suggests. We also have SotW (on CD, too, which for us is much more enjoyable), which HO suggests to use as a spine, but we don't really use it that way.
post #10 of 11
just wanted to add these books to the discussion.

My boys are young adn we have barely started our jouney inot Classical Education. We will be teaching a strongly Biblical approach with a lot of real books and few text books ....

we are not set in stone on any of our book choices, but i do have these saved as a real potential being part of the hisptry education we do --

the first couple oare more of activity books for idea and application ..



Here is one set i wanted to share:

http://www.amazon.com/Spend-Day-Anci...=1CIXP5FKCGAFY

this is only one of them -- there are a ton of them ... more for "brin ging it to life"



and also this series:

http://www.amazon.com/You-Wouldnt-Wa...=1CIXP5FKCGAFY

again -- for activity and "bringing it to life" ideas; many in this series too






this set is more of a spine seris more like SOTW .... or more like a guide book for the adults ... i am REALLY exicted to get one IIL and read it -- but i hold back as i know my boys aren't ready and i have other things to be thinking about / doing.

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Studies...=1CIXP5FKCGAFY

and

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Studies..._bxgy_b_text_b

there is also a grophraphy via children's lit book too

(can you tell i looooove books and prudly feed the addiction in my boys)

and these -- speicifically histopry -- go by period

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-History-Th...ref=pd_sim_b_2

and

http://www.amazon.com/Teaching-Histo...ref=pd_sim_b_1

and so on






I also plan to get this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Social-Studies...=1CIXP5FKCGAFY

as a resource for me.



just thought I'd add them to the discussion. there are so many options out there
post #11 of 11
Great thread! I love collecting suggestions like these. Thanks
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