She doesn't like preschool - homeschooling perspectives please

[seashells]

DD is 4yo and very social. DH is her primary caregiver during the day, and he is a homebody. I push him to take her places but I don't like to push that much, you know?

So when I learned our city has a public preschool, 2 hours a day, 5 days a week, I thought - perfect. She can have activity every day, and it should just be fun! We talked to her about it and left it up to her. She loved the idea from the beginning but did not want to go at first when we explained she would be dropped off, and stay there with her teachers and classmates, but we would not be there. But she worked through that over the summer and at some point felt like she was ready to do that. At that point, when she seemed consistently ready and understanding of it, we enrolled her, and she started on the first day in the fall.

For all of September, she loved it. She looked forward to going every day. Then in October she stopped loving it.

She's very verbal but she's 4 years old, so it's hard to figure out what the problem is. Also, she appears to be picking up on what we would consider to be big issues - meaning, she'll say another girl pushed her because she saw that got a big reaction out of us before. But we don't think there is a bullying situation at all. It seems all the kids like her, and nobody is violent or anything.

I think this is what is going on:

1) She's "the little kid" the inevitable smallest child in the class. She's hypotonic and can't keep up with other kids on the playground, if someone bumps into her she'll fall over. I can see how this can be really hard. Also she has to climb/descend stairs twice a day and it honestly tires her out.

2) They make her do workbooks and stuff - in preschool. Sigh. I guess I must have been kidding myself when I thought preschool was all just fun and games. I think they are pushing a little harder than needed to have her write her name and such. I don't think she's quite there yet, and would hate for her to have a bad experience because she was pushed too hard too early. I mean, 4 isn't early to write one's name (at all) but I think she's going to be a little behind on that, and that's ok with me.

So... there's a big difference in my mind between not enrolling her in Kindergarten and just homeschooling her (which is not at all an issue in this house - hubby totally on board, etc.) and pulling her out of school midyear.

I think I can homeschool her in K and on for no particular reason, just because I want to. But I think pulling her out of school should require a good reason. What do you think?

And, do you think the reasons I listed above are good enough to pull her out? I really don't want to teach her to just give up when the going is rough. I do not at all feel like she has to stay in public school "because we all gotta do things we don't like" - no, not at all. But once she's in a school year, if a problem isn't too big (like unaddressed bullying or something like that) I am just feeling like it just needs to be seen through.

I don't see how I can really solve the problems for her either. I think anything I could think of would be overprotective - I don't want her to be exempt from the stairs to use the elevators for example. And I can't exactly enroll her in public school and ask them to stop using workbooks, you know?

Thoughts?

[Geerbabe]

It sounds like your daughter is feeling overwhelmed, which is reason enough in itself to consider pullling her out. Do you really want to suffer through eight more months of dragging a relunctant child to preschool everyday? What are you really hoping she will get out of the experience?

I had my daughter in a parent participation preschool at age four. They did no academics whatsoever, it was all playtime, crafts and social skills. My daughter went three days a week, and I felt like that was one day too many. Two would have been better. Just being around that many kids is stressful for young children. The noise levels, the interactions and having to be on someone else's schedule all take their toll. Before preschool my daughter had given up naps, but for the first three months or so of preschool she would come home and have to sleep it off.

If you're not ready to give it up completely, could you perhaps find a preschool that is a better fit? A couple of days a week? Less academics? You may find that attending one or two classes at your local community center might be a better way to meet her social needs without pushing her over the edge.

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by seashells

But I think pulling her out of school should require a good reason. What do you think?

Personally, I'd have to have a good reason to keep her there. I don't see one in your post.

And, do you think the reasons I listed above are good enough to pull her out? I really don't want to teach her to just give up when the going is rough.

I think the reasons are absolutely enough--she's unhappy, it's not working for her, she doesn't seem ready for it...

I've heard the "Won't it teach them to give up?" question almost as much as I've heard the "What about socialization?" question. The way I see it, it's not teaching them to give up, it's teaching them that when something isn't working for them, and they can't make it better, it's okay to change the circumstances. If you were in a job that you hated, and had the opportunity to move on to a place that would work better for you, wouldn't you do it? Or would you force yourself to remain miserable?

Kids rarely have the power to change things about school that don't work for them, but if there are other options (other schools, homeschooling, etc.) what is the point of continuing to do something that doesn't work? Leaving isn't giving up, it's taking control of your life.

[seashells]

Thank you both for your perspectives, and it makes sense.

I'll discuss it with DH over the weekend.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Ah hah! We meet again! This time in the homeschool forum. DD didn't want to go to preschool this morning . I ended up having to take her to work with me (I work parttime) which was a disaster.

I'm beginning to think our little girls have some kind of psychic connection going on, here.

[Jenelle]

My middle ds is in a preschool that we LOVE, 3 afternoons a week.

If at any point it becomes clear that he consistently does not want to go -- I don't care what the reason is -- we'd take him out.

I say this as a mom who LOVES the teacher, loves him to have so many experiences there (field trips, songs, crafts, etc.) But as a mom who does not feel it is necessary for him to stay there.

I do not see it as giving up or teaching a bad lesson (especially at the age of FOUR). I see it as "Okay, this isn't working, let's try something else that might".

[riversmommy]

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my husband the other day. He was talking about a childhood memory of waking up so early before school. He would go down to the kitchen and get his own cereal, the house all quiet and dark, no one else was up yet. I said,"Did you like the routine feeling of it? Like the security of doing the same thing everyday?" And he said, "No, I HATED it!" But he never thought there were any other options! This boggles my mind! And makes me kind of sad. I was hs'd so, in my mind, you don't continue to live a lifestyle you absolutely hate for years on end. If you want something bad enough, you will endure a certain level of discomfort to attain it. And that's called "seeing things thru" or "sticking with it". But there has to be a real objective. And there are many ways to reach that objective.

Anyway, I'm rambling. But just wanted to say that it's really great that you respect and are in tune with your daughter! I wish more parents were like that! Good luck with your decision.

[seashells]

DH and I talked earlier and I shared what I had read here. He thought it made a lot of sense. So we're not worried about the "just learning to give up" thing, though we're still not totally sure if there isn't just something we can fix so she can love school again like she used to. I figure the best case scenario, given that she used to love it, would be for her to love it again. And next best being to take her out, which is also perfectly fine. She seemed to have a good day today so we've not decided to pull her yet, but we both agreed to relax about that possibility, and if it ain't workin', then fine, it ain't workin'.

Of course then we have to deal with the fallout from our folks (yikes!!) but we also agreed we would not let our folks make this decision for us, PERIOD. Too bad for them. (Still a little scary to think about!).

BellinghamCrunchie, where the heck (besides a far-off star) do you live?? Please let it be in my county. (Fat chance).

[Roar]

Have you spoken with the teacher? That's where I'd start because there may be information that would be helpful to have. I am also wondering if it might be a possibility for her to go fewer days a week.

One thing I'd keep in mind is that from an adult perspective there is this academic year that goes from fall to the beginning of summer. Less than that is quitting. Most preschoolers don't have this in their head. So, stopping this could be just like when any other activity ends up after eight weeks or something.

[pinky]

Just wanted to add that four is really young. There's nothing wrong and so much right with just hanging out at home and having fun, if that's a good fit for her. One of my kids loved preschool, the other lasted for literally a couple of weeks--kids are just different.

Try to think about what makes sense right now. This does not commit you to homeschooling or to not doing kindergarten or anything like that. It can feel like a big leap to opt out of school entirely, so try not to let this decision about preschool carry all that weight. It's just about making the right decision for your very little girl right now.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by seashells

BellinghamCrunchie, where the heck (besides a far-off star) do you live?? Please let it be in my county. (Fat chance).

Whatcom County, Washington State. Are we at least in the same country?

[seashells]

Originally Posted by Roar

Have you spoken with the teacher? That's where I'd start because there may be information that would be helpful to have. I am also wondering if it might be a possibility for her to go fewer days a week.

One thing I'd keep in mind is that from an adult perspective there is this academic year that goes from fall to the beginning of summer. Less than that is quitting. Most preschoolers don't have this in their head. So, stopping this could be just like when any other activity ends up after eight weeks or something.

We haven't told the teacher we're considering pulling her out, no, but we've talked to her about specific incidents or concerns. The teacher is very nice but we have found that she seems to be ... I don't know how describe it, but just really careful, and a bit concealed. Not very open, and I just feel like she has more information than she will share with us. Everything she says is measured. I know a bit about doing that because my boss has taught me how to do that for work, though over the years I've dropped this learned habit. And I don't think it's quite the best communication style when young children are concerned.

And good point about the length of the term, I know for a fact DD doesn't have any sense for the completion of the school year. How could she?

The teacher of course thinks we're overprotective. And part of the problem is that I'm not totally sure she's wrong. It's especially difficult when any level of special needs is involved. Since DD is hypotonic, she's NOT average, and I don't feel the need to push her out of my house and make her independent at age 4. But of course the teacher thinks we baby her too much and don't let her do enough for herself. There is some truth to that, and we have learned to push DD a little bit more to do more for herself. But this dynamic comes from DD's needs, not ours. We did not start with a conception of DD's capabilities and needs; she communicated them to us herself. I think it's very difficult to discourage or stop a child from doing things; for many things DD insists on doing it all by herself. For others she insists on help. I think we can help build her confidence for some things that I think she can do but she's not sure of herself on, so that's the part I think we can do better on. But she's NOT physically at the level of other children, and climbing stairs is difficult for her, and keeping up is probably really stressful. So there's a difference in my head between making her keep up with the other children on the stairs (just an example) versus at home letting her go up at her own slow pace BUT encouraging her to do it herself (she frequently requests to be carried up).

Originally Posted by pinky

Just wanted to add that four is really young. There's nothing wrong and so much right with just hanging out at home and having fun, if that's a good fit for her. One of my kids loved preschool, the other lasted for literally a couple of weeks--kids are just different.

Try to think about what makes sense right now. This does not commit you to homeschooling or to not doing kindergarten or anything like that. It can feel like a big leap to opt out of school entirely, so try not to let this decision about preschool carry all that weight. It's just about making the right decision for your very little girl right now.

Yeah. Honestly, the irony is that we were already leaning toward homeschooling for K and on (not necessarily forever, but possibly - but I don't think I have the hubris to foresee that far ahead). Preschool maybe was a dumb idea; I didn't think of it as "SCHOOL" but as a fun activity for her. I just sort of felt stuck (but feeling less stuck thanks to everyone's input).

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

Whatcom County, Washington State. Are we at least in the same country?

You know, I shut down the computer and did a head slap. Bellingham.... Washington, of course. Well, we're in the same country, the US of A, but opposite coasts (Massachusetts).

[skueppers]

I do send my kids to preschool, and have required that my daughter continue to go even when she didn't like it -- for us, the language-immersion aspect of the school is really important. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother!

Anyway, what I've found with my daughter is that the only times she hasn't liked school were when she didn't feel like she had friends in the class. This happened right at the beginning when she first started, and again this year because her two closest friends moved on to grade K (the preschool classes are mixed-age.) The first time, we couldn't figure out how to solve the problem, it just eventually worked itself out. The second time, it was trivial -- ONE playdate with another kid from her class, and she was good to go. That out-of-school bonding time with other kids from her class is what helps her establish the relationships that then make her look forward to going to school. This is her third year, and I learned a lot about how to make things better for her during her second year!

So if you do want her to continue in the school, you might consider scheduling a play date or two with a kid she'd like to get to know better.

Oh, and according to the teachers in my daughter's school, kids often do great in the first 4-6 weeks they're in school, and then suddenly have problems with separation. They chalk it up to things being exciting and new early on, but once they get used to it, things get more emotionally complicated.

Of course, I also don't think there's anything wrong with pulling her out of school if she doesn't like it! Though perhaps your husband could do some structured parent-child classes with her (swimming, gymnastics, music, art...), or join a playgroup, so she'd be involved in regular activities.

[seashells]

DH and I talked about this yesterday and decided last night to pull her out. I've called DD in sick for the day, and we plan to all three of us go to the school around dismissal time to briefly speak with the teacher face to face, to give her the courtesy of face-to-face time and also so DD can say goodbye to the teacher and hopefully her classmates a bit too. (She didn't ask for that; I just personally felt like this closure was needed).

I asked DD if she wanted to go to school just one more day just to say goodbye and she said no. She agreed to going just to say goodbye with us there.

I do feel a bit sad about this in some ways but generally am happy to have made the decision. I've let go of my hangup about the "quitting" thing. I've also come to terms with the pressure I'll get from my mother and MIL. I've mostly come to terms with the way the teacher will see us (us pulling her out being "confirmation" that we are overprotective). I plan to tell the teacher in a way that makes it clear that we were very happy with her (we were), that we don't feel there was a problem, just that DD is only 4 and seems to be not ready yet and that's ok with us.

On the survey the teacher sent to us before school started, one question was "What do you want to get out of preschool?" and I had written "Just fun!!" So by that measure, this isn't working. I don't see preschool as some lifetime big deal, just something that is hopefully fun for kids. DD is not having fun. I don't see how to solve that within the framework of the preschool. They will expect her to conform to certain standards, and that makes sense for the school system. We have alternatives, so it just doesn't need to be a big deal.

We did check and confirmed that preschool is not compulsary in our state (I don't know if it's compulsary anywhere, but things have changed so much since I was in school I couldn't take that for granted). So I assume I don't need to meet with the board or file an education plan or anything. I assume I can just pull her and that's that.

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by seashells

So I assume I don't need to meet with the board or file an education plan or anything. I assume I can just pull her and that's that.

You can check your state's homeschooling laws here: www.nhen.org It's good to be aware of what your laws actually state. It's widely assumed in my area that Kindergarten is required because "all" kids sign up for K at the age of 5. In reality, our laws don't require school until age 6 when they begin 1st grade. My oldest was about 8 or 9 before I figured that out! Also, when we began hsing, our local superintendant informed me of some requirements that were completely untrue--best to know for yourself what the laws are.

[seashells]

The link didn't work, but DH looked it up somewhere and saw that school is not required until age 6, and also K isn't required in our state. So we already know preschool isn't required. I was just thinking about whether there are special requirements to pull a kid out after being enrolled, but I assume it's just a matter of pulling her, period.

[Roar]

Glad you've reached a decision.

Is she getting PT for her hypotonia?

[seashells]

Originally Posted by Roar

Is she getting PT for her hypotonia?

Not at present, but it's something we are going to explore. She did receive PT through Early Intervention, so she's had it before. We've been aware of her needs and have enrolled her in swimming classes to increase her physical confidence (she loves it) and we also plan to enroll her in ballet lessons for the same reasons. We also do family physical activity which she loves, a walk in the woods, jogging around the track (I'm amazed, this hypotonic child can jog/walk a good mile as long as one of us holds her hand and we pretend we're chasing a friend), even things like situps (which she doesn't do properly but I don't care, she's still hauling her little body up one way or another), jumping, squats, etc. Those are all things she loves to do.

She HATED PT in Early Intervention. Just like she hated preschool. She does not like being pushed in certain ways. I honestly have not put my finger on the difference between the stuff I described we (her parents) do with her versus PT/school. Probably because we don't "MAKE" her do any of it, but simply respond to her particular interests (she's always loved water) and current abilities (we push only a little bit). And maybe some of it is the attachment factor; she's willing to do more for her mommy and daddy than for the teacher or therapist.

When I spoke with her teacher yesterday to withdraw her, her teacher mentioned we could get an evaluation with a PT. I'm tempted to do it though 1) I know DD will hate it and 2) I'm not clear on what kind of input we'll receive and how useful it will be for us.

DD has no diagnosis (heck, her pediatrician hasn't even noticed she's hypotonic - though there is no doubt she is).

Anyway, if anyone has any input on that I'd welcome it.