OMgosh...found male dog with our dog, chances of her being pg? :0

[luv-my-boys]

Please dont flame me, I am not an irresponsible pet owner.

When we first got our female dog we took her to be spayed, like our other dogs and pets. Its something we always did and believe in. However, after they shortly began her surgery she almost died and at that points the vets worked to save her and her spaying was nixed. It took weeks for her to recover and it was explained to us that due to a genetic "glitch" she would be susceptible to forms of anestesia. Basically just like some humans who die due to anesthesia so can other animals. We could risk her life and try again, something we were not comfortable with possible try just a local but that seemed inhumane. The vet and another specialist we saw agreed that she would most likely die if put under, it was/is too much on her system not to know not to succumb to the anesthesia. Sorry if its comfusing but is how I could explain it in lay terms.

Fast forward to this morning. Our female unspayed dog is in heat. But since she is an indoor dog it has never really been an issue. We let her out to our fenced yard to do her business and let back in. She is NEVER outside even if she isnt in heat. Our animals are always on our property secured. Well apparently this morning DS heard her wimper at the door because she wanted to *go* so he let her out. Yep.....by the time I realized she was outside there was another male dog tied to her!!!!!!! I immediately got them untied but now im freaking out. OMGosh, I dont want to be the irresponsible pet owner who brought more puppies into this world!!!

I talked to the owner of the male dog (neighbor's dog who climbed our fence) and yep he is not neutered and is about the age to be able to reproduce. Now Im freaking out. The vet is calling me back later, but his solution is spay her. There is a great chance she will die or wait to see if she has puppies and if so let her have them and bring more puppies into this mess. UGGGGG.

I've been researching online all morning. What are her chances of getting pg? She started her heat on oct. 4th, the *tie* was today 10/23 although it may not have been totally complete as the make dog seperated. The asst at the vets suggest we come in later on for a pg test to confirm.

[CvilleC]

I think I read that females are fertile days 11-15 of their cycles, so you should be okay. I definitely am not an expert about these things though.

I'm sorry to hear about that scary experience with anesthesia. I remember when my dog was spayed that the vet asked me if I wanted tests to make sure her organs wouldn't fail due to a reaction to the medicine. I thought "okay, there's no way I can say no to that one without looking like a terrible pet owner!" Obviously, it's a valid test.

[honey-lilac]

I hope she's not pregnant but if she is, please don't beat yourself up about it. Puppies happen! It's like teenage pregnancy, you generally try to prevent it, but if you can't, well... what are ya gonna do?

That said, of course I do indeed support spaying and am against irresponsible "backyard breeding" but if it turns out that she is pregnant, look at it in a positive way. At least your kids will get to see that part of life. I know my mom wanted to breed our dog specifically for that reason, because it touched her so deeply when HER dog had puppies when SHE was a child. We never did breed Copper; she always wanted to find the right dog to breed him with, and then he got old and died and she still talks about how great it would have been. Sigh.

[Ola_]

I'd get that test done ASAP. If she's pregnant I would investigate different anesthesia that may work for her. I have a greyhound and they are sensitive to some types of anesthetics - I was glad to hear that there are many options available now, some that are much safer. Find out what your vet used and do some research. I'd contact the other vet clinics in your area to see what they recommend also.

IMO a dog in heat should be supervised at all times when outside. I think that's where you went wrong if you're just letting her out. Male dogs will do amazing things to get to a female in heat! If it turns out that she's not pregnant (I will cross my fingers for the outcome of the test!) I would definitely be taking more precautions from now on.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

It sounds like you have done everything you can to prevent her getting pg and your dc letting her out this time was a mistake. I hope that you are able to find an anesthesia that can be used on her safely and hope she isnt pg.

[Doodlebugsmom]

Honestly, if it was me? If she is pregnant, I'd let her have the puppies and work hard to find homes for them. A dear friend of mine was an irresponsible (but loving) pet owner, and his dog got pregnant. He just happened to be on the opposite coast touring with his band when the puppies arrived. Dh and I took over the responsibility of puppy-care. We helped the mama raise her litter, and found all the puppies great homes. We kept one ourselves, and she was my very, very best friend for all of her 9.5 years. She gave me a relationship that was so special. I don't think I'll ever have that experience with another dog, and feel I was lucky to experience it once in my life. So, unplanned doggie pregnancies can bring blessings.

[Noelle C.]

I hate to say it but...count on puppies. Just like in humans, sperm can live for days, and fertle days aren't set in stone.

Since your girl already nearly died from an attempted spay, not would not be a good time to experiement with other anesthesias. Count out 63 days on your calendar as the average gestation is 63 days. You can have a vet do an ultrasound if you'd like, but if I were you, I'd just put her on a pregnancy diet now and treat her as if she was definitely pregnant.

As soon as the pups are born, presuming she is pregnant (and she very likely is), start looking for homes. Interview, interview, interview!! The right homes will be glad to take the time and will be willing to wait until the pups are 12 weeks old (NOT 8!! pups and kits should stay with their moms until at least 12 weeks!!). It'll save you time and worry if you can get the homes lined up ahead of time.

Unlike kaleanani, I don't consider this to be irresponsible backyard breeding. That requires some measure of actually being irresponsible, such as letting that male dog in and "seeing what happens," or intentionally trying to breed because "ZOMG profits!!" without care as to the health of the dogs or resulting pups. This was an accident, and accidents happen. Like most accidents, there was something that could have been done to prevent it, but heaven help us all for being humans. Accidents happen. You've learned for next time. As long as you learn and take more care next time, you aren't irresponsible. You simply were human and a mistake was made. You'll get a lot of crap from people for puppies, but how many of those people have never ever made a mistake or had an accident in their lives? Exactly. They can STFU about how bad you are when they aren't perfect themselves.

Puppies are a lot of work, a lot of fun, and a lot of headache, all in equal parts. Start your reseach now just to be on the safe side, and good luck to you!

[Doodlebugsmom]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

Puppies are a lot of work, a lot of fun, and a lot of headache, all in equal parts. Start your reseach now just to be on the safe side, and good luck to you!

I agree with everything Noelle said. The book "The Art of Raising a Puppy" by the Monks of New Skete was our book of choice when we raised our friend's litter.

[seaheroine]

I'd look into different spaying or "morning after" alternatives -- I knew someone once who had a similar accident with a show dog (unaltered) and had an "abortion" for their dog. Apparently it's possible. Maybe the vet can help brainstorm some solutions for the situation that don't involve bringing more dogs into the world.

There are just so many dogs dying in the shelter, ykwim? Since we've shown our dogs, we thought long and hard about possibly breeding one of our females...but in the end, couldn't justify it. I'd feel like I needed to spay/alter all the pups, along with microchips so if at any point in their life they ended up in a shelter (not unlikely), I'd get a call and would be able to address it. Basically I'd see the pups as my own lifelong responsibility - and that's IF I could find homes for all of them, which I think would be easier said than done.

IDK, puppies wouldn't be worth it to me. If there is absolutely no way to save your dog otherwise, then of course the puppies would be justified...but I'd exhaust every possible avenue before letting it happen.

[seaheroine]

Originally Posted by Noelle C.

Unlike kaleanani, I don't consider this to be irresponsible backyard breeding. That requires some measure of actually being irresponsible, such as letting that male dog in and "seeing what happens," or intentionally trying to breed because "ZOMG profits!!" without care as to the health of the dogs or resulting pups.

But either way you're bring more dogs into a world that already has too many. What is the difference? Profits or not, it could be 12+ dogs that live 12+ years that potentially reproduce 12+ puppies each. From the sheer numbers of dogs euthanized daily in the shelter, is it really responsible to bring accidental puppies into the world at all if it is preventable now?

OP is definitely not a bad person and accidents do happen, but the end result doesn't necessarily have to be puppies. I'd look into every possible option before resigning myself to that.

[griffin2004]

If she is pg, what are the chances that the pups will inherit her anesthesia sensitivity? That would be something that you would have to disclose when placing the pups which I would think would make it more difficult to find homes for them.

I agree w/ the pp's. A dog in heat doesn't go outside unattended for even a minute.

[honey-lilac]

Er, I wasn't the one throwing around the irresponsible word, so I really don't like words put in my mouth. I was trying to reply a bit tongue in cheek about how the OP called herself irresponsible... The rest of my post was trying to point out that I didn't think it was so horrid even if she WAS pregnant.

[Tizzy]

Why didn't the vet suggest a prostaglandin shot?

[Noelle C.]

Originally Posted by seaheroine

But either way you're bring more dogs into a world that already has too many. What is the difference? Profits or not, it could be 12+ dogs that live 12+ years that potentially reproduce 12+ puppies each. From the sheer numbers of dogs euthanized daily in the shelter, is it really responsible to bring accidental puppies into the world at all if it is preventable now?

Difference is intention. In OP's case, it was a genuine accident. Her son let the dog out unsupervised, and another dog got into the yard. This is much different than someone opening the gate to let a dog in because it sounds like a good way to make a quick buck. What's the difference between accidentally hitting a car and ramming into one on purpose for the possible insurance? Someone's car's been damaged. But the difference is big.

Sure, she can prevent more pups without fail, if she's willing to kill her dog. Her dog has had a near-lethal reaction to the anesthesia already. Is it really more responsible to keep trying to find an anesthesia and to keep putting the dog through the trauma of near-death and life-saving techniques (not to mention the sheer expense to the OP) to try to find a way to do what is, in its true sense, an elective procedure? The dog won't die if she's not spayed, meaning it is elective, but she may die from trying a spay again.

And especially right now, the dog's body, if she is pregnant, is vastly different than it was when the spay was attempted. She has hormones in her system that weren't present before. Who knows, those hormones may somehow make her tolerant of the anesthesia, but probably not.

Should her first responsibility be to her own dog, or to other dogs in shelters? I think this is what needs clarifying. To someone who thinks the first responsibility should be to the shelter dogs because there are more, then it makes sense to say she should risk her dog's life, or even outright euthanize because the death of one dog could save the lives of several others by not "taking homes" from them. But if you believe, as I do, that each needs to look out for their own first, then it's appalling to suggest she should risk her dog's life, when there's already been one brush with almost-death, for the sake of other dogs. I know dogs and children aren't the same, but you wouldn't tell a mother to risk her child's life to safe the lives of a hundred other children, would you? If she's choosing to make her responsibility the life of her own dog, there is nothing wrong with that.

Now she's be irresponsible if she went about this with the mindset of, "Well, that was a fluke, won't happen again, so I'll just start letting Poochie outside alone fro now on!" Chances are she'll be even more diligent about making sure her dog is supervised. An irresponsible person would not.


By the way, the overpopulation problem has also been used as an argument against having biological children. Why have biological children when there are children in shelters around the world needing homes right now?



Kale, in the middle of the night, the first sentence of your second paragraph came across as accusing the OP of being a backyard breeder if the dog is indeed pregnant. If that wasn't what you were trying to say and I simply misunderstood, then I apologize.

[phatchristy]

There are so many different options for anesthesia. I have had friends who have anesthesia sensitive dogs, one of them wound up opting for isofluorene gas. And, there were other options as well. This is not something that veterinarians have not seen before and it common in certain breeds. Often it's the pre-anesthetic agent that is the culprit.

IMHO, having the spay done now would be a good long term solution. Does the OP really want to deal with a bitch in heat for another decade or so?

There's a vet who posts here occasionally, if someone remembers her name perhaps you could PM her?

[Oubliette8]

What breed is your dog? Some breeds nearly always require c-sections. Even if your dog isnt one of them, its still a good idea to look into anesthesia alternatives, in case there is an emergency and she does need a c-section.

I was under the impression that there were things the vet could do, non-surgically to get rid of the pregnancy in the early stages. I dont know if thats an option for you, or if its too late for that now, but it would be something to ask about. for me, if I had a dog with a near fatal anesthesia reaction, I would want to avoid a pregnancy and thus the risk of emergency c-section, which could put her life at risk.

[EFmom]

Personally, I'd be talking to the vet (not an assistant) to see if there is any way to terminate a pregnancy.

[Noelle C.]

Originally Posted by Oubliette8

What breed is your dog? Some breeds nearly always require c-sections. Even if your dog isnt one of them, its still a good idea to look into anesthesia alternatives, in case there is an emergency and she does need a c-section.

This is a good point. Hopefully it won't come to this in the end, chances increase depending on breed (I hope this isn't a bulldog!!!).

[Tizzy]

Like I said, a prostaglandin injection would take care of the problem. The OP did not state the dog's age either which should be taken into account for a first litter of puppies.
Ahhh so many issues to consider, I hope it has been resolved

[Ola_]

Any news on the pregnancy status OP?