Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › "Suppressing Emotions" vs Forming Bad Habits
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Suppressing Emotions" vs Forming Bad Habits

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
I've been considering two conflicting ideas and would appreciate some insight from other MDC mamas.

First, there is the idea that children should be allowed to express negative emotions (to the point that no one is being hurt)- like tantrums, for instance- so they can express themselves fully and not have all these bad feelings locked inside to turn into deeper problems.

Then, there is the idea that within their little brains, neurological patterns of behaviour form in response to patterns of behaviour which are repeated often, so that these behaviours become the default reaction.

SOOOOO... I guess I am wondering this because I've tried to mostly let my 2nd DS express himself, and he's only become *more* prone to tantrums and my DH and my mother, rather than argue with me about how I parent (which they know is not cool), just seem to not want to be the ones to be his caretaker because they find it so difficult to deal with him. He is a classic 2 year old- wants something very much, then changes his mind back and forth, and melts down no matter what you end up doing (like about which shoes to wear, what food to eat first if there are more than one kind at the table, whether or not he wants to sit in his stroller or walk next to big brother- and it's not that we offer him choices, its that he asks to do the opposite of what he *is* doing, then waffles back to what he was previously doing).

I'm starting to doubt that my two year old really benefits from all the freedom to express himself. He feels frustrated so much, and just goes right from frustrated to exploding (whereas with DS1, who was put in his room or otherwise restrained from flipping out, he exited the tantrum stage more quickly because he knew we wouldn't put up with it). I guess, I have come to the point in my own life where I look at "self-expression" as being positive and valuable more so when it is accompanied by the discipline of self control, because spewing out a bunch of negative emotions doesn't make the world a better place for me or others; channeling them into positive action does. Obviously a 2 yr old doesn't know how to do this yet, but in letting them repeatedly flare their tempers, couldn't this become a "learned behaviour"- a go to response for how to act when frustrated?
post #2 of 18
I'm not here yet, as my DS is only 17 mos, but I'm preparing!! I guess I'd ask you what you propose to do to _stop_ the tantrums, if you decide that's the way to go? My impression from the few that DS has had, and the reading that I've done, there really isn't a way to stop them, at least nothing I'd be comfortable with! I think teaching your little one that it's okay to express strong emotions is good, and important, and I guarantee, unless he has some serious developmental issues (doesn't sound like that is the case, from your post) he won't be having tantrums screaming on the floor when he is 18
post #3 of 18
What I'm thinking here is that the tantrum is a good way of getting his feelings out only as long as it doesn't become the way he gets what he wants.

My daughter would get frustrated and upset and instead of sending her to another room, I'd hold her and agree with her that it was sad or made her angry or whatever. Very "happiest toddler on the block" type of stuff, where you acknowledge to them that you understand they are frustrated. BUT, show them that you understanding doesn't mean you are going to change the thing that was upsetting them. If he's upset about a toy and starts to break down, he just doesn't know how to deal with it. If you are there for him and maybe say some things like "I KNOW! You couldn't get that toy to open up, right? And that made you really sad? Yeah, I understand. SO sad." But then you didn't open the toy up for him - so the tantrum wasn't the means to the end, but just a little side-trip where he learned it's okay to be upset, and that you really GOT what he was sad about.

I don't agree with banishing them to other rooms, and I don't agree with rewarding the tantrum with whatever they were upset about (although, both of those things have happened at our house). I just prefer to acknowledge the emotions verbally and then not solve the problem until they ask in a reasonable way for help.
post #4 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaKickyPants View Post
I'm not here yet, as my DS is only 17 mos, but I'm preparing!! I guess I'd ask you what you propose to do to _stop_ the tantrums, if you decide that's the way to go? My impression from the few that DS has had, and the reading that I've done, there really isn't a way to stop them, at least nothing I'd be comfortable with! I think teaching your little one that it's okay to express strong emotions is good, and important, and I guarantee, unless he has some serious developmental issues (doesn't sound like that is the case, from your post) he won't be having tantrums screaming on the floor when he is 18
I agree with this.

They're getting worse because tantrums have a bit of a bell curve thing going. They get worse and worse till they hit a peak, and then they start to get less and less until they go away.

I believe that kids learn through tantrums. They learn about their emotions. They learn that they are loved even when they have strong negative emotions. They learn the concept of futility - there are some things that can't be changed by any amount of screaming and anger.

When he has learned what he needs to learn, and when his language is good enough for him to feel he can express his emotions in another way, the tantrums will go away.
post #5 of 18
I think that along with self-expression you need to work on self-regulation.

Now, at 2, a child isn't going to have very much capacity for self-regulation. They very much rely on their parents for co-regulation. In my book, that means I need to carefully watch my kids' cues. Ds needed me to back off and needed separation in order to calm down. Trying to talk to him, touch him or distract him simply fueled the fire. Dd needed to be held. This was learned by trial and error.

I also impose some limits. If my kids are completely out of control (either volume-wise or physically), I put them in their room to calm down. They don't want to be there, but then they're not exactly in a rational state of mind. After they come back, we cuddle and reconnect. I don't feel bad about this kind of time out. Actually, I haven't sent ds to his room for a year or more. He's got the self-regulation now to be able to gain control. Dd is much more volatile and 'spirited'. It's going to take her longer to learn this kind of self-regulation. We're at a point now where we can say "If you need to scream, please go to your room." About 1/2 the time, she'll get herself under control. The other 1/2 she needs separation.

What they need also changes as they as they age. Right now, sometimes dd needs to be separated and get things out. Sometimes she needs to be held. Ds, on the other hand, will stomp off to his room by himself most of the time. But as he gets older, he's also seeking us out more when he's upset.
post #6 of 18
IMO, at 2 yo most kids really do need to just release those feelings, and I would let him tantrum as he needed, as long as he was safe and not causing damage.

I do think moving tantrums to quiet, non-disruptive, safer places is fine. For example: one time when then 2 yo DS had a major melt down at Trader Joes, I picked him up and took him out to the car, instead of just letting him block the exit. If DS is flailing, kicking or banging thing, I will move him to his bed. If he is hurting me, then he will be left alone there.

Tantrums are a way for children to let out pent up tension at that age, DS always did this. When he was 2, he would have tantrums on stressful days over things completely unrelated to the thing causing him stress.

If having to make so many decisions is causing him that much stress, I would not ask him to make them as often, and keep them as low key as possible. For a 2 yo having to choose between ice cream and cake is extremely stressful. Just give him one or two relatively easy choices a day, so that he can practice making decisions, but otherwise make suggestions instead of asking.

As he gets older, gradually let him make more of the harder choices of life.
post #7 of 18
I think you might be running into a problem with choices VS boundaries.

I think that most kids need/like/feel comforted by some kids of boundaries. I'm not talking about being strict or taking away choices, but providing an age appropriate structure for those choices.

With my DD we would offer her choices, then we'd tell her she had until we counted to 5 (any longer seemed to be too long for her and shorter didn't let her process enough) to make a choice or we'd make one for her. Then when we'd say 5 we'd repeat the choices and ask her what she'd picked. When she was just 2 we would shorten them to 1 word each. "walk or stroller"? And then she'd either chose or we'd chose.

The thing was that once a choice was made, we didn't immediately change it. So even if she picked stroller and then 2 seconds later wanted to walk, we'd ask her to wait for a few seconds before we'd change. It wasn't "too long" and it did build up her waiting skills. It also resolved alot of her tantrums. If we said she could get out when we got to the end of the block, and then she saw us follow through on that, it seemed to comfort her.

For us there's a distinction between self expression and behavior that impacts other people. It was hard for us to wrap our heads around too. But I think there is a balance between letting the tantrums dictate how other people have to do things and repressing self expression.

Also, some kids are just more intense. My DD is really intense. We do alot of things with other people who parent even more liberally (for lack of a better word) that we do. And their kids just go with the flow. Long after my DD refused to go in any carrier or ride in the stroller, these moms had kids who would happily sit in their strollers/Ergos and just chill. I'd be running around the mall preventing my DD from climbing everything or pulling down displays or knocking over old ladies.
post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
If having to make so many decisions is causing him that much stress, I would not ask him to make them as often, and keep them as low key as possible. For a 2 yo having to choose between ice cream and cake is extremely stressful. Just give him one or two relatively easy choices a day, so that he can practice making decisions, but otherwise make suggestions instead of asking.
I don't offer him many choices, it's that he tries to choose other things (which aren't bad in themselves), and then when we agree, he waffles back and forth and can't decide if he even wants the other thing he asked for, then gets hysterical.

All those happiest toddler on the block and Naomi Aldort type validating of his feelings doesn't seem to help. He might ask to watch a movie at a time when it is not appropriate, and I can validate him all I want about how we wants to watch a movie and is very disappointed, mad, etc he can't right now- and any time I try to offer a word to describe how he feels, or just try to express empathy, he gets even more upset and contradicts what I say. He will continue to ask and ask for 30 minutes and then finally melt down. And during the 30 minutes, he's hanging on my legs, pulling on my shirt, laying on the floor where I'm standing (esp if cooking), but will refuse to sit down with me or be comforted if I try to sit with him and empathize. I don't give in to him, but it really zaps my energy, I get frustrated with having to deal with this several times a day, and I'm feeling resentful of him. Sometimes I really wonder if time outs and going to their rooms is a better strategy than more GD/AP/UP approaches (with certain personalities) if mom is feeling resentful of the child because of being worn out. If the whole point is him feeling loved and accepted, well, I don't think I'm exuding those things when I'm trying to get dinner on the table, having braxton hicks contractions and throbbing vericose veins, and I feel like throwing him out the window because he's creating a hullabaloo on the kitchen floor when I'm already frazzled. By the way I'm 9 months pregnant and uncomfortable and that doesn't help!

With DS1, tyrannical parents that we were, we would say after like the 3rd repeated request for something we already said no to, "We do not like it when you nag, we are putting you in your room until you're able to stop asking us the same question over and over." That was that and he wouldn't go on for half an hour, would just cry about being stuck in his room and quickly decide to stop nagging and come out and be part of the family. Now all I have to say to him is "Are you nagging me?" when he asks a couple times and he catches himself and stops (he's 4).

About the bell curve on tantrums, I just don't feel like I have that much time. I'm about to give birth and am at the point where rather than enjoying my mother and mother-in-law and husband each taking a week off to help me, I dread it because I know they think its foolishness to "put up with" his tantrums and I feel like I am the only one (and only by a thread) who has the willingness to spend a half hour a day several times a day dealing with it. They may not *say* anything, but honestly I guess I just feel wrong about letting him indulge in negative emotional displays so often so I'm embarassed of his behaviour in front of other people. If I felt good about what I was doing and the results I was achieving, I probably wouldn't mind so much what others thought.

My husband thinks there are times when DS needs to get his emotions out even if it's not comfortable for us, and times when he's being a selfish jerk (as we all can be at times) and we should offer resistance to his behaviour- that no parenting expert's advice should be taken as gospel METHOD (ie, one set of guidelines applies to a certain behaviour *all the time*), but rather, you need to go with the flow and have the intuition and common sense to distinguish between when the kid is needing to vent and when he's creating a whole bunch of negativity that isn't going to be cathartic for him and is going to wear on the atmosphere of the whole family environment. I guess I'm wondering is this is the balance point for us right now?
post #9 of 18
DD is 4, and validation has never done much with her other than increase the howling.

We do timeouts and I try not to make them terribly punitive. I don't say "You are bad--get in there" but I will say, if she doesn't calm down, and she's being disruptive to the house, that she needs to go in her room until she can speak nicely to people, stop kicking and hitting, that kind of thing. It's her choice. She's a little older than your sprout, though.
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by momma_unlimited View Post

Sometimes I really wonder if time outs and going to their rooms is a better strategy than more GD/AP/UP approaches (with certain personalities) if mom is feeling resentful of the child because of being worn out.
I think there's a middle ground between timeouts and validating until you resent it.

I got really frustrated with ds whining and asking over and over and over, then crying, etc. I didn't handle it well The trick for me was to disengage- something I learned from Secret of Parenting. It says its for kids 4 and up, but some of the ideas, IME, are adaptable to younger kids. Obviously, one of those "take what works for you" situations.

So I'd validate at first, try to redirect, etc, then disengage when it was starting to frustrate me abd I could tell that engaging him was just not helping matters. (Redirecting, btw, should be to something related.) I'm sure I also expressed unhappiness with the continued whining/crying. Not saying that's a good idea necessarily, it's just what happened. The whining/crying really put me over the edge.
post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by momma_unlimited View Post
I guess I'm wondering is this is the balance point for us right now?
intuition AND life helps u find the balance point.

plus you can differ in ur parenting style so no one has to follow what the other one does. your ds can get used to how each person deals with tantrums differently. one thing i have noticed with my dd. it really surprised me. the very things that i say or ask that would reduce her to a crying mess at home, she would happily comply with at her gparents. her dad would command her and she would comply. if i used that tone of voice she would be a hysterical mess.

so if you all 3 did your own thing regarding the tantrums i think your ds would be getting great life lessons.

i think its v. important that we express our own needs too.

my dd was terrible at 2. and at 3.

however she was dealing with a lot of stuff - along with coparenting. part of it is her personality. she is v. emotionally sensitive. extremely independent. and yet those bad tantrums happened when she was either tired or hungry or hadnt had enough exercise. they are tantruming beyond reason at that point. i never tried to do anything but sit close to her and gently walk her out from the store.

i found with my dd it was v. predictable when seh would tantrum. she would too if she didnt get enough time with me.

however since she was little - a toddler she has known that other people's houses rules are different and that seh has to ask them for permission to do certain things. just coz she has free use of the music system at home, does not mean she can use it at someone elses house. so she got used to early on learning that everyone does things differently.
post #12 of 18
Well, you have to parent the child in front of you, kwim? If validation just frustrates him, then I'd back off that approach. Perhaps he can't find the boundaries if they are couched in validation-language.

There are children who just need things to be more black and white. 'No, we cannot watch a movie now". "Sorry, no movie now. We can read a book".

And also, yes, some children need boundaries around their tantrums and whining. I don't agree that every child is so internally balanced at two years old that they will only whine or cry as much as is healthy and then stop. Some may keep it up beyond the point that is healthy. As you said, to the point that they seem almost always to be miserable and upset.

Now, I will say though, that 2 is a CLASSICALLY difficult age. It is just inherently a time of imbalance for some little ones. They are really going through lots of change and you are going to have bad days, bad weeks, where they get a bit stuck in a phase and you just have to do your best.

But I think if you haven't tried using clearer language, and introducing some limits on tantrums and whining, I think it can be a reassuring for some children.
post #13 of 18
I also have a "tantrum-prone" 2yo (as well as a 4yo who doesn't always help the situation!). We transitioned from the Kohn - Aldort style of discipline to a more "old-school", authoritative style several months ago, and the difference in the boys' behavior and demeanor has been astounding. They're happier, they're cooperative, they get along better, and we just don't have all the hassles we did before. I certainly encourage my kids to express themselves, but it's important that we do it appropriately. I don't tolerate screaming, fighting, tantrums, or excessive whining. If my 4yo is out of control, he takes a time-out in the bedroom, but my 2yo does time-outs on a blanket in whatever room I'm in. There aren't time requirements or anything. As soon as they can behave appropriately, they're done. I'm gentle about it, I briefly validate what they're feeling, and remind them of a more appropriate way of dealing with the issue. Really, I think some kids will just keep on with the negative behavior, almost as if they get sucked into it (and constant validation just seems to make things worse for these kids). If it's getting to the point where your DS has become the center of the family's attention with the whining and tantrums, some gentle but firm boundaries may be needed. Especially with a new baby on the way!
post #14 of 18
I wonder if my tactic is a good or bad one. I try hard to avoid the things that will trigger a tantrum in the first place. I am not sure if that is a good idea or not. I know how to say things to her so she feels more in control and it works for us. Of course there are times when she can't handle it and gets very upset. Over some time I have encouraged her to give me a hug while acknowledging her feelings and explaining that sometimes things don't go the way we expect. Over time she has reached the point that when she starts to get frustrated about something she will whimper and then ask me for a hug. It's really rather amazing and I often wonder how long this will last! (29 months old)
post #15 of 18
My DD (3.5) also freaks out even more and contradicts if i try to validate her. She seems to feel everything is awful and no-one understands and if i DO understand she does NOT want to hear about it.

I tend to take a stged approach. At the start of a melt-down i try to redirect. This sometimes works. If it doesn't work i validate somewhat (which very occasionally works). If she continues i ask her to please sit on the stairs if she needs to scream and shout because i'm trying to cook/tidy/whatever. About half the time she winds it up and stops screaming right then, and the other half she goes and screams on the stairs. So long as she got to make the choice i am not too worried which option she goes for. I do the same whenever she's whining or being annoying in an attempt to get something she wants (unfortunately XP will often give whatever she wants to appease crying or screaming which i'm sure is why she hasn't given up trying it with DH and I). I also don't over-egg explanations -
"can we watch a movie?"
"not now, it's nearly dinner time"
"MOVIE!"
"no"
"mmmmmmmmmmmmmmooooooooooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " *lies down and screams*
"no movie, DD if you're going to cry about it can you go sit on the stairs, i need to cook" and if she goes "thank you"

I don't actually think it's my job to keep her happy at any or all costs, so she is welcome to express her emotions, but i am not bound to act on them.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaKickyPants View Post
I'm not here yet, as my DS is only 17 mos, but I'm preparing!! I guess I'd ask you what you propose to do to _stop_ the tantrums, if you decide that's the way to go? My impression from the few that DS has had, and the reading that I've done, there really isn't a way to stop them, at least nothing I'd be comfortable with! I think teaching your little one that it's okay to express strong emotions is good, and important, and I guarantee, unless he has some serious developmental issues (doesn't sound like that is the case, from your post) he won't be having tantrums screaming on the floor when he is 18
My DSS is 10 and still has tantrums screaming on the floor. (No, he does not have any diagnosable disorders.)

I'm of the school of thinking that when children are little (2 years old - 4 years old), tantrums are one of the ways they experiment with expressing themselves. I also think that's okay.

However, if you want to make sure that this way of expressing themselves doesn't carry over into their older childhood years, there are three things you have to do:

1. Calmly and sympathetically acknowledge their feelings. Offer hugs and kisses. Young children (all people, actually) need to feel heard and understood. This will help you build a good foundation for positive communicaiton down the road.

2. After acknowledging their feelings, ignore the entire rest of the tantrum. Go back to whatever you were doing and/or leave the room. It's never too early for a little person to learn that if you're freaking out, people are not going to want to be in your presence. For very young children, I would not suggest sending them to their bedrooms or making them go away. The parent should be the one to remove themselves so that the child sees that this is not a punishment, simply that the grown-up is making a choice not to be in the presence of a person who is tantruming.

3. Do not, under any circumstances, "reward" the tantrum. If you child is screaming and kicking because he wants to wear the orange socks and not the yellow ones that are now on his feet and you're late getting out the door, DON'T GO GET THE ORANGE SOCKS. You're teaching your child that if he screams and makes a scene, he will get what he wants.

Once I was past the four-year-old phase with my daughters, we started working on the following concept:

"If I [Mom] make a decision that you disagree with or are unhappy with, we can talk about it and perhaps I will change my mind or perhaps we can come to an agreement that works for both of us. I'm still learning too and I'm not always going to be right about everything. However, if you whine or scream or throw a tantrum, negotiations are off the table. My decision stands. It is NOT an option to speak respectfully to your family."

My DH concedes that when his son was young (before I came into the picture), he dealt with tantrums by 1) working very hard to give his son what he wanted so that the tantrum would end, 2) not acknowleding his son's feelings in a kind and empathetic way and, 3)spending a lot of time trying to placate him rather than ignoring the behavior or walking away.

DSS subsequently learned that the best way to get what he wants and get his father's attention is to throw a tantrum.

Your child will still love you if you don't indulge his tantrum, I promise. AND, he won't be sad forever.
post #17 of 18
subbing to come back later and read
post #18 of 18
DD is 2 and throwing a fit it seems these days is her hobby. What we do is if she is having a tantrum over something like wanting to play with a toy that sister has we explain that she has to wait her turn. If it continues I usually continue on with what I am doing and let her 'vent'. However if it continues or she seems to be in the mood for having a tantrum over every single thing it usually graduates to a time out. I have not graduated to the 'every minute for year of age' 2 minutes seems like a lot right now since she just turned 2. So we do about a minute, but afterwords we always talk with her about what was acceptable and approrpiate behavior and 'I'm sorry may be in order' (usually to lil sis) but then we always tell her we love her. And move on, my biggest fear or concern is letting her scream and cry for an extended period of time because I don't want her to think that carrying on about something for 45min is necessary to vent her frustrations. Nor do I want her to think that she can get whatever she wants if she screams and cries long or loud enough. (my biggest fear is having DD manipulate us to get what she wants) I so dont want to be a pushover
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Gentle Discipline
Mothering › Forums › Parenting › Gentle Discipline › "Suppressing Emotions" vs Forming Bad Habits