Mealtime issues

[Wild Lupine]

What do you do when your DCs don't like what you've served for meals? DH and I have a different opinion and I'd like to know what others do in this situation.

DD is 35 months, BTW.

Not liking food:
I think if she tries it once or twice, and then doesn't like it, to let it go. I will also give her something else if she asks for it specifically and is healthy (hummus, toast) I won't remake a new meal, nor will I list items in an attempt to get her to eat, just meet a specific, healthy request. I'm thinking, she's not quite three, we eat some weird things for a sensitive palate, and if she's polite and healthy in her requests, I'll give her what she's willing to eat.

DH convinces her to eat it, explaining why it really is tasty, etc... He says getting her something else undermines whoever cooks and wants everyone eating the same thing.

DH and I alternate cooking, so whoever cooks tends to use their own strategy when she doesn't like the food. But it is getting to the point where he doesn't like me giving her something else on 'my' nights, and I don't like the power struggles they get into (eat, no, eat, no, walk away from the table, come back and sit down, no) on 'his' nights.

The strange thing is that DD is the least picky toddler eater I know. The food she has issues with are things I cannot imagine any toddler eating: caper and carmelized onion pizza, eggplant curry, etc...

[m.m.m.]

My kids don't get options as far as me making different things for everyone in the household. Doing that for 3 kids and 3 meals a day would driv eme nuts! But I do take into account things they do NOT like, just as I expect people (like DH) to be respectful of th8ings I can't stand (big pieces of onion are top of my hated food list).

And what works well is foods where they can eat parts they like better. So maybe a couple of vegetable options, rice, and chicken. So at least what they eat is healthy? Or soup, that's easy enough for them to eat the parts they prefer and still get different flavors.

Food is frustrating. Letting it become a power thing; they can control so much, those little people I give them control of their choices with that, but I just can't cater to it.

[Wild Lupine]

m.m.m. - What a simple, sensible option! Having several different choices, a few of which are known to be liked. It'll work, and it will also avoid having to decide whose approach, DH or mine, was 'right.' Thanks!

[ssh]

Our DD completely self regulates when it comes to food. Coaxing a LO to eat will often lead them to ignore their bodies cues and over eat or eat when their body doesn't need it. Eating for social reasons can lead to obesity, and power struggles about food can lead to lots of different food issues. That being said our DD, almost 4, does often eat dinner with us. When I fix something she usually doesn't eat, I try to have something she likes. For example, last night we had lasagna so I also had zucchini with a little butter (one of her favorites). She had a few bites of the zucchini, didn't want any lasagna but ate an apple about an hour after dinner. The previous two nights she loved what we were having( lobster ravioli, and gumbo with sausage and chicken) and ate. We feel providing healthy foo is our responsibility deciding what and when to eat is hers.

[Smithie]

"He says getting her something else undermines whoever cooks..."

I think this is right. There is no forced eating at my table, but also NO negative comments about the food and NO whining for something else. Eat it, don't eat it, your body your choice, but be polite above all else. Meals are social occasions and courtesy to the cook is part of a healthy food culture.

That said, I obviously make sure to have something on the table that they like. And if they don't eat anything at all, they don't participate in dessert, because a sugary dish on top on an empty stomach is an unhealthy choice. Other than that, though, I do my level best not to comment on their eating. The less it's discussed at the table, the more variety they seem to ingest.

[katelove]

I read somewhere that children sometimes need to try a new food 10 times before their palate becomes accustomed to the taste so I would probably keep offering the things she hasn't liked. No pressure and other options but letting her have the opportunity to keep tasting them.

[mamazee]

I make dinner, and have other (healthy) things available if dd doesn't like it. Things she can get on her own, and things that aren't terribly exciting, but things she likes so she won't go hungry. I don't cook two meals, so they're things that don't involve cooking, like yogurt, carrot sticks, nuts, etc. She usually eats what we eat, or at least some part of what we have. But there are a few things she just doesn't like.

[Wild Lupine]

Thanks everyone. I knew I could count on you for healthy attitudes towards meals and food.

"Coaxing a LO to eat will often lead them to ignore their bodies cues and over eat or eat when their body doesn't need it."

That's exactly what I am worried about when she's coaxed to eat after she's indicated she doesn't want it. I'd really like it to stop, but I don't want to impose my will on the situation since DH sees it so differently.

"There is no forced eating at my table, but also NO negative comments about the food and NO whining for something else. Eat it, don't eat it, your body your choice, but be polite above all else. Meals are social occasions and courtesy to the cook is part of a healthy food culture."

Fortunately, we haven't gotten into rudeness; I agree with you totally about meals being social occasions and having courtesy for whomever cooked. When DD doesn't like something, she generally just doesn't ingest any more after the first bite. She talks to us, drinks her water, sings songs, but doesn't eat. It's only when she's asked repeatedly to eat more that she says she doesn't like it. She doesn't make a face or use a negative tone, just says 'I don't want it'. To me, that's not really rude or discourteous, just honest.

"Other than that, though, I do my level best not to comment on their eating. The less it's discussed at the table, the more variety they seem to ingest."

Good point, I'll try this.

I guess what is really the problem is only offering her one thing; if she doesn't like it she's stuck either being hungry, eating something she doesn't want, or asking for something else. Not an easy situation for anyone to deal with politely, let alone a not-quite-three year old. I've planned my meals for the week to have a variety of things rather than one big course. So far it's worked; she's eaten some things and not others, and it has not created any dinner time issues. She's eaten plenty without any encouragement from us, and hasn't asked for anything that's not already on the table. And it's not really any more work for me.

At the moment I'm not going to worry about DHs nights to cook and give him a chance to figure out how to best provide food for her. Cooking for children is different to cooking for adults, and there's definitely a learning curve.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by onemomentatatime

Thanks everyone. I knew I could count on you for healthy attitudes towards meals and food.

"Coaxing a LO to eat will often lead them to ignore their bodies cues and over eat or eat when their body doesn't need it."

That's exactly what I am worried about when she's coaxed to eat after she's indicated she doesn't want it. I'd really like it to stop, but I don't want to impose my will on the situation since DH sees it so differently.

Ask your DH what's more important, his ego or his DDs having a healthy attitude toward food. Also what's more important, his ego or their relationship. Because if he keeps trying to control her eating, their relationship will suffer. You could also ask him how he would treat an adult who didn't want to eat his cooking. Shouldn't he be at least as nice to his own DD as he would to some random adult.

[velochic]

This is JMO. I agree with your dh. There are going to be many times in life that you have to eat something that is not your favorite. Let me explain where I am coming from. We travel... all over the world and occasionally to some fairly exotic places. Time and again we've been places that has nothing really very familiar to eat. Being able to be flexible and realize that for this meal, you might have to eat something that may not be exactly to your liking saves you from going to bed hungry. In most every other country in the world, you just don't get choices. If you don't eat what's on the table, there isn't anything else to choose from. We're raising dd to learn that unless you have an allergic reaction to something or it truly makes you gag, you eat what is put in front of you. At home, obviously it's easy to be flexible and make sure there are foods that everyone likes. However, there are times I make something that is a favorite of dh's (he's not American) that may be a little different for dd, but she is expected to eat it. It's a matter of having the respect for the cook and couth. And... I know I'll get flamed for this... I also think it's part of the "entitlement" attitude we have in the US. ALWAYS getting your way, even when it involves food, teaches a child that it doesn't matter who has to do what, what effort has already been put into the food... as long as they get their way. I'm sorry to disagree, but I really think that you can raise a child without food issues AND teach them to have respect for the person doing the labor and appreciate the hard work it took to even buy the food that's on the table. What would you do if all you could afford is beans and rice? If it were financially the only thing you could manage? Lots of people live like that.

So, I do actually think that a child can learn to eat what may not be delicious to him/her, knowing that the majority of the time they're going to get exactly what they want and love to eat. And yes, there are lots of toddlers all over the world eating eggplant and caramelized onions and lamb's intestines and sheep's heads, and grasshoppers, and duck tongue, and fish cheeks, and all sorts of other foods that might seem odd to us, but is normal elsewhere. There's no reason for it to *not* be normal here, too.

[RoundAbout]

Originally Posted by velochic

And... I know I'll get flamed for this... I also think it's part of the "entitlement" attitude we have in the US.

Hmmm... I agree that we shouldn't always get to eat our favorites and also that many in the US are spoiled . However, I think 35 months is a little early to expect this level of sublimation of preferences for the sake of social courtesy. I've traveled all over the world and picky eating by toddlers is hardly a US phenomenon. When we lived in Japan a Japanese father was impressed that my son loved sushi because his same aged daughter would only eat rice and miso. Obviously in places where food is an issue kids eat what is available or go hungry but I'm not going to create artificial scarcity just to teach my son a lesson.

My son is much like the OP's - 35 months old and NOT a picky eater at all. He eats stuff that many kids his age wouldn't touch - all kinds of veggies, curries, falafel, fish, spicy food of all kind. There are a few things that he doesn't like and I encourage him to keep trying. Usually he agrees to give it a go, but I'm not going to force food into his mouth. Learning to like certain food takes time (I didn't like mushroom until college or cottage cheese until I was in my 30's) and I think its a gradual learning process. If my son had a huge list of foods he wouldn't eat I might try a different approach, because like you I really can't stand picky eating.

Bottom line I treat my son with the same courtesy I give my spouse and my friends. Just like I always make sure there is at least one vegetarian dish when I throw a party for certain friends, I always make sure there's at least one thing my toddler might enjoy. The only difference is that I respectfully encourage my son to try new things in a positive manner.

[Wild Lupine]

ETA: Sorry for the bolding, I'm not sure how to break up a quote and I wanted to differentiate who was writing. I'm not shouting, I promise!

Originally Posted by velochic

This is JMO. I agree with your dh. There are going to be many times in life that you have to eat something that is not your favorite.

On this, I totally agree, and it tends to be our philosophy with one another. DH and I are very adventurous with food, trying out new recipes all the time. We eat what the other has cooked, no questions asked or comments made (except favorable ones), although we try not to cook something we know the other hates. We're not into being very picky or choosy. With an older child I wouldn't also put something on the plate I know he or she would like, but with a toddler, it seems unfair and unrealistic to expect them to try a new thing every meal without also giving them something familiar.

I also think it's part of the "entitlement" attitude we have in the US. ALWAYS getting your way, even when it involves food,

I'm not quite sure if you got this from my post, that DD was insisting on having her way and I was accommodating it, but that's not what is happening here. I know what you mean about an entitlement attitude, but I don't think an almost three year old not eating something she has tried and really does not like is a symptom of entitlement.

So, I do actually think that a child can learn to eat what may not be delicious to him/her, knowing that the majority of the time they're going to get exactly what they want and love to eat. And yes, there are lots of toddlers all over the world eating eggplant and caramelized onions and lamb's intestines and sheep's heads, and grasshoppers, and duck tongue, and fish cheeks, and all sorts of other foods that might seem odd to us, but is normal elsewhere. There's no reason for it to *not* be normal here, too.

Sorry to go sciencey on you, but as a biology teacher I have to disagree. Toddlers the world over are picky. It's an evolutionary trait to keep them from eating everything they encounter. Once kids learn how to walk and they are not being carried by adults, they need some restraint to keep them from ingesting poisonous berries, animal feces, and other dangerous things. Hence the pickiness that can emerge in the second and third years of life; for many children refusal to eat unfamiliar foods is hard wired. This of course can be worked with and isn't true of older children. The palates of young children is also very different from that of adults. What can be a mild flavor for an adult is very strong for a child.

[GoBecGo]

Our "rule" is that we have meals together at the table (i.e. DD, 3.5, may not wander off simply because she doesn't want to eat what we're eating) and we all have what is on offer on our plate (DD can have as many extra spoons of rice as she likes, but she must also have a spoonful of chilli, whether or not she eats it) and we encourage her to try her food. To be honest i think your DD is doing really well if she will try a food and THEN decide she doesn't like it, since my DD often decides she doesn't like something based on the name of it, or the look of it or the smell of it. Beyond one taste of a foodstuff i don't much care if she clears her plate or eats much more. I don't encourage her to "eat up" only to taste, because as previously pointed out, toddlers often take up to 10 tastes of an unfamiliar food before they are able to "like" or "dislike" it. There are foods which she has definitely tried more than 10 times and doesn't like and i don't ask her to taste those or put any on her plate if i can avoid it (last night sh got peas on her plate because they were IN the curry, and i told her to pick them out, which she did).

"Fussy" is so difficult for me - i was a fussy child. We had no money, i was certainly NOT raised with a sense of entitlement, and i still found many normal foods made me gag as a child. It was in my 20's before my palete mellowed enough for me to enjoy a wide variety of foods and now i'm a complete foodie! When i was 3 i would only eat apples, yogurt, peanut butter, cheese and grapes. I rejected breads, potatoes, pasta, meat, most other fruits, basically everything. I can remember standing with rice in my mouth and bile rising in my throat and tears running down my cheeks and my mum telling me to "eat it!" - i swallowed and was immediately sick. I wasn't being awkward or difficult, my body was screaming at me not to eat it.

If DD eats nothing at the table (rare) and then asks for an apple a half hour later i just give her an apple. I don't give her an apple at the table though.

[mild_adventurer]

When DD2 was 4 years old, she went through a phase where she turned her nose up at everything I cooked for dinner. Even things she previously "liked." These were her options: 1. Eat what Mom cooked. 2. Eat a peanut butter and banana sandwich. 3. Don't eat.

She ate peanut butter and banana sandwiches for 3 months straight and now she pretty much eats everything I cook, even stuff that "looks weird." (She's 8 years old now.)

We have four kids with wildly different tastes (from DSS, who would rather not eat if the meal doesn't include beef, to DD2 who is practically a vegetarian).

The policy is: we try very hard to cook a meal that we think everyone will like. You must try it (and more than just a molecule). If you don't like it, you may have noodles. If you don't want noodles, you're out of luck. If you don't eat, you don't get dessert. Mom and Dad do not get up to prepare alternate meals once we've sat down at the dinner table. There's always a pot of noodles on the back of the stove for the kids who don't like what's served.

We are not a diner.

[CalaRei]

I've been loving this blog, but this post in particular seems to jump out at me regarding the "what if they don't want dinner?" question:

http://itsnotaboutnutrition.squaresp...d-my-life.html

[ssh]

Originally Posted by onemomentatatime

Sorry to go sciencey on you, but as a biology teacher I have to disagree. Toddlers the world over are picky. It's an evolutionary trait to keep them from eating everything they encounter. Once kids learn how to walk and they are not being carried by adults, they need some restraint to keep them from ingesting poisonous berries, animal feces, and other dangerous things. Hence the pickiness that can emerge in the second and third years of life; for many children refusal to eat unfamiliar foods is hard wired. This of course can be worked with and isn't true of older children. The palates of young children is also very different from that of adults. What can be a mild flavor for an adult is very strong for a child.[/B]

Tell this to your DH. Also tell him why it's important for your DD to listen to her body instead of other people when it comes to food. Here's one article http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/c...eat.right.html . There are lots of dry, full of statistics, research articles available just google "self regulating food intake in children". Your DH is the grown up. If he stops harassing your DD she will eventually enjoy his cooking. That's what he wants anyway, for your DD to appreciate his cooking. Making her eat it now when she's little won't do that.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

OUr household handling of food issues stems from the basic philosphy that everyone (kids and adults) deserves equal respect. And the fact that I was raised with really abusive dinner situations (paddled, forced to eat, restrained at the table...) and I absolutely refuse to repeat these sorts of struggles. With that in mind, here is our routine for breakfast and dinner:

DH and I alternate who cooks. When we are planning meals/grocery shopping we ask for requests and do take general account of who likes what. But we also both really enjoy trying new recipes. Since my kids are now old enough to help (10 and 6), they frequently help with weekend dinners or even cook dinner "themselves".

We all sit down to eat together and everyone is served the same thing. Everyone must sit down and say grace. However, no one is required to eat it. No one is allowed to make "yuck" comments, but they don't have to eat it either. I know that I sometimes take a dislike to something based on appearance or smell, so I don't even require them to try it.

If you don't like something, you may get yourself a healthy replacement option. Note that neither DH nor I will get up and do that because we have the right to enjoy a hot meal when it is ready. Since the kids were out of the high chair, they could get to their snacks and fridge items. So if they don't like the entree, they can get cheese or make a sandwich (even at 3 they could do this). If they don't like the veggie they can get carrots or fruit. They have to come back to the table to eat it and participate in dinner conversation. Yes, they can leave a mess, but I'm willing to deal with that after I'm done eating (and I've finished my wine).

If they simply are not hungry, they may decline food altogether. And they are excused when they ask, not encouraged to eat "one more bite". They know what their bodies are saying better than I do. I have some hope that they will not have the horrid food issues that I do by learning this lesson now.

Dessert is an entirely separate "meal" after baths so it doesn't become an issue of eating X to get Y.

So far this has worked really well. The kids are generally happy to try things, I think because there is never any pressure to do so. They eat healthy amounts of things and meals are happy and pleasent. So far, so good.

[peaceful_mama]

my dh too says let them eat what they like....but it is out of the choices presented at the table. (like if ds1 wants noodles and pretty much only noodles one day, OK)

I don't consider my kids "picky", in general, they eat a variety of stuff and will USUALLY at least try....they do almost always put everything on their plate. (This seems to lead to acceptance in my house, first you'll have it on your plate, eventually you'll try it. I'm talking a bite size amount so if it doesn't get consumed, no big waste.)

my 2 yr old seems to do better with separate--like one day not too long ago we had "taco soup" (sort of a chili thing but black beans and no meat) The rest of us put our full-fat Greek yogurt sour cream, cheese, and yes, tortilla chips (I'm not above a little fun in trying a new food) IN our bowls. DD kept her stuff all separate and ate quite a bit of plain yogurt, some cheese, maybe a chip or two, and she did try the soup.

A typical meal will be something like that, that you can "assemble" to your liking or will have several items on the table, and they can eat as much as they like of what's available. And they usually do at least *sample* everything.

A little 'reminder' seems to work with my 2 year old, "oh hey, have you tried your salad? I think it's yummy..." as I'm eating some. (It's funny to watch her go "Oh, yeah!" and start eating it ) She seems to respond to trying things that I tell her I like.

With both of mine recently, they've been interested in watching me prep and we've been talking a lot about foods, both at prep and mealtime.
Example, one night not too long ago, I made a vegetarian shepherd's pie containing kale from our CSA. The kids asked what it was, I told them. I also told them that I had not cooked or eaten it before either, so we would all be trying something new at dinner that night. DS, age just turned 5, said he would try it--and he did, and he ate a plateful.

also when they hang around helping or chatting during food prep, they tend to sample....so there's another opportunity to try veggies usually, since I tend to be chopping veggies for one use or another. And they seem a little more interested in trying something they helped make.

I try to remind them if they've had it before and liked it too--"oh, this is zucchini, you've eaten it on pizza I made" or whatever. (seems to help them think they might also like it in this other form) seems to work extremely well with 5 yr old.

The one thing I do NOT do is offer any sort of alternative to what is on the table. like the soup night with the yogurt, she ate a meal that was mainly yogurt.
I just make sure I have things there that I don't mind them making a meal of.

Also I keep things separate quite a bit, like spaghetti and meatballs will be on the table as a bowl of noodles, a bowl of sauce, and a bowl of meatballs. (child can then eat noodles with sauce and meatball separately, meatball and noodle sauce-free, meatball and sauce.) Stir fry will not be over the rice. (they do end up with mixtures some too like salad or the stir fry but they're allowed to pick out stuff.)
Usually too when I make something like stir fry becuase there are 6 of us I'll make 2 pans and they'll be different, gives them some choice.

But...they don't get to pick a Door #2.

Gives child plenty of choice, yet respects my effort/time put into making a decent meal. (which seems to be your dh's issue--maybe he can live with separating stuff or something to give child more 'control')