Not sure about breastfeeding this time

[Litcrit]

I breastfed my daughter for 2 years 7 months. I'm 8 weeks pregnant with my second. After some thinking and research, I don't feel at all enthusiastic about BFing this time around, like I did the last time.

My reasons are selfish. My daughter has, I'm sure, benefited from it.

But I'm sure my PPD was caused by the low estrogen that accompanies lactation - it was at its worst 4-6months PP, got slightly better when solids were introduced, and significantly better after I got my first period (slow return of estrogen), and I only really felt like myself again when I weaned. That's also when I started really liking my daughter and feeling connected to her. Which is strange, as breastfeeding is often touted as the panacea for bonding - well, maybe not for women sensitive to low estrogen levels.

Breastfeeding is also supposed to help you lose weight postpartum. I had almost no extra weight after giving birth, but gained 22 pounds in the first 4 months of breastfeeding, which are only starting to drop now. After almost 3 years. In pregnancy. Naturally. Even without any serious morning sickness. I've lost 10 pound so far - weird, right? Obviously, my body is weird and does the opposite of what it's supposed to.

I know breast is best. I just have a hard time really feeling motivated to do it all over again, when I know how it will probably affect me. I'll certainly start with this baby too, I just can't picture myself doing it for an extended period of time again.

I don't know what my question is. Has anyone felt disenchanted about breastfeeding after reading so many wonderful articles about how you'll feel magically bonded and lose weight and feel awesome? Do you have anything to say that may motivate me without attacking me for feeling this way (PPD is the suckiest thing that's ever happened to me. I don't want to experience it ever again. If I know now what causes it for me, I'm naturally prone to want to avoid it, right? Who can blame me?) Thanks for listening, anyway...

[Blueone]

You know, my depression left when I stopped breastfeeding too. Not to sound mean or anything, but I'm glad to hear it happened for others too. I felt strange saying that my depression got better when I stopped and like others were judging me. It really annoyed me when people said that I was wrong and that it was just emotional because breastfeeding increases bonding. It didn't really do that for me though. I didn't bond until I had stopped.

I'm curious what others will say on this thread. I'll be sure to check back. I have no real advice though, it's a tough decision and I hope you make one that's best for the both of you.

ETA: I don't think watching out for your mental health is selfish though. You seem to be considering both sides and that shows you care.

[Katie T]

I believe a happy mommy is a better mommy if not bfing is the way & your ok w/it thats the way to go. I do believe there are ppd meds safe for bfing if that interests you. You need to do whats right for you & no one should fault you for that.

[Litcrit]

Originally Posted by Blueone

You know, my depression left when I stopped breastfeeding too. Not to sound mean or anything, but I'm glad to hear it happened for others too.

I know exactly what you mean. It's taboo to say it, so you rarely hear it. I'm also glad I'm not the only one (though I'm sorry you had to go through depression). A few posters on the Postpartum Depression forum have reported the same thing.

The link only makes sense for women susceptible to hormone fluctuations, but it is very rarely brought up in relation to BFing. Here is how estrogen helps prevent depression:

Estrogen appears to have a significant effect on serotonin levels. In the brains of those who are depressed, there is a lack of serotonin, which can occur due to reduced serotonin production and release, over-activity of receptors that remove serotonin, and/or over-activity of the chemicals that break serotonin down. Estrogen naturally affects each of these levels of serotonin functioning, which is why estrogen may serve as a natural anti-depressant. The following is a short list of the ways estrogen influences serotonin:

* Serotonin Creation: Estrogen displaces tryptophan, one of the building blocks of serotonin, from its binding sites, which increases its availability for creating more serotonin
* Serotonin Breakdown: To prevent too much breakdown of serotonin, estrogen interferes with enzymes that deconstruct serotonin.
* Serotonin Uptake: Estrogen increases the retrieval of serotonin by increasing the density of binding sites and receptors that are friendly to serotonin, particularly in areas that control mood.

Put simply, this list shows how estrogen makes more of the raw elements necessary for creating serotonin, removes the materials that interfere with making it, and provides more containers for it to be gathered. Therefore, the rise and fall of estrogen alters the neurotransmitter landscape in a way that directly influences a woman’s vulnerability to depression. (http://www.newharbinger.com/client/c...rviewESTRO.cfm)

And these are the times a woman naturally has extremely low levels of estrogen:

* just before a period
* just after childbirth
* while lactating
* in early menopause

These are all times when a woman is likely to experience dysphoric mood disorders.

Marie Annette Brown and Jo Robinson have closely examined these situations in When Your Body Gets the Blues (available via Google books).

Almost every article on menopause out there will squarely point the finger at low estrogen levels as the culprit for the depression that often occurs at that time.

But it is extremely rare to stumble upon an article connecting the low estrogen necessary for milk production with PPD - although the same biology applies here. I honestly don't understand it.

It's as though we're being treated like children - we can't get straightforward information so we'd choose to breastfeed. I'll probably choose to BF again, even with this knowledge - but at least I'll understand the chemistry at play.

It's similar to being told that labor takes you into a wonderful fairy tale land where you'll only feel pain if you're not informed and confident - which is similar to being told as a child that something won't hurt a bit, just so you don't make waves. But then you're not prepared and feel cheated. I resent that (my own parents never did this, but I really hate the patronizing approach. And I especially hate it as an adult).

Sorry about the long post and rant.

[Surfacing]

Reading with interest as someone who is bfing and taking anti-depressants.

[mlec]

Hi, I know you mentioned low estrogen contributing to your pp depression, but wanted to throw out there that nutritional deficiencies are *extremely* common, and can cause or greatly exacerbate pp depression (or any depression, really). The book The Mood Cure by Julia Ross really helped me. I didn't take every single supplement suggested, but a few of them, as well as a really good multi, REALLY helped me. I believe she also has a hormone-repair tool kit in the book.
Best to you.

[Swan3]

I went through PPD with my first and am currently experiencing it again, although it's manifesting in anger issues rather than crying. For me something that REALLY helped was taking Omega 3,6,9 during pregnancy (as I suffered from depression then too) and taking my dehydrated placenta as a supplement. I'm also doing talk therapy as well as finally biting the bullet and taking anti-depressants.

I really hope you can avoid PPD this time, I know how it feels!

[Litcrit]

Originally Posted by Surfacing

Reading with interest as someone who is bfing and taking anti-depressants.

Hope you get better soon.

Originally Posted by mlec

Hi, I know you mentioned low estrogen contributing to your pp depression, but wanted to throw out there that nutritional deficiencies are *extremely* common, and can cause or greatly exacerbate pp depression (or any depression, really). The book The Mood Cure by Julia Ross really helped me. I didn't take every single supplement suggested, but a few of them, as well as a really good multi, REALLY helped me. I believe she also has a hormone-repair tool kit in the book.
Best to you.

Thank you. I have explored nutritional deficiencies, and vit B helped a bit, but nothing can compare to the EUREKA! I'M ME AGAIN AND LIFE IS GOOD AND I LOVE MY KID that happened 36 hours after I weaned my girl. I'll check out the 'hormone-repair' thingy, thanks!

Originally Posted by Swan3

I went through PPD with my first and am currently experiencing it again, although it's manifesting in anger issues rather than crying. For me something that REALLY helped was taking Omega 3,6,9 during pregnancy (as I suffered from depression then too) and taking my dehydrated placenta as a supplement. I'm also doing talk therapy as well as finally biting the bullet and taking anti-depressants.

I really hope you can avoid PPD this time, I know how it feels!

Thank you! I hope you get through this again!

We've always eaten a diet reach in Omegas. Also, pregnancy is a hyper-extra-ultra happy time for me (HIIIIIGH estrogen levels). I had morning sickness AND a bad cold all last week and was in a FABULOUS mood all the time. It HAS to be the estrogen.

My concern with anti-depressants is that I'm not sure I could get decent ones in my country. My friend took them and was turned into a zombie who couldn't hold a conversation for months. She did feel better eventually, but I'll be writing my thesis in the first year of my baby's life, and I need my usual brain. Also, if I know what the cause is (low estrogen), then I'd be thinking that the medication is only alleviating the symptoms, not getting to the cause, which is not a good attitude when starting therapy, right?

Thank you for your replies and I hope all of you will feel great SOON.

Depressed menopausal women sometimes get hormone replacement therapy. Is this possible for BFing women too? I'm sure it would lower your supply, but that's a risk I'd be willing to take after, say, 6 months. Has anyone been given this?

[mamazee]

I had PPD with #1 too, and I'm sure it was hormonal and related to my period not starting for so long, and I'm sure that was from BF. But oddly, with #2, my period started right away and I didn't have PPD, even though I BF her too.

So it won't necessarily happen again. And you could do other things in an attempt to get your period back, like give a pacifier, or even supplement and BF before giving up on BF all together.

[mum21andtwins]

why not just take it one day at a time and see how it goes. every pregnancy is different every bf expierience is different.
I lost weight the first time and gained it the second felt great the first time and not so much now.

Just take it one day at a time

[annekh23]

I'd read and not responded to this post, though it gave me a lot of food for thought. Then I had a similar conversation with a friend over the weekend and I'm feeling all mixed up now.

I know I'm sensitive to hormones, to the extent that I would often feel suicidal for a short time before my period was due. I tried the combined pill once and didn't do well on that, it kind of smoothed out my mood over the month, but I preferred a couple of awful days to being lower all the time.

I had PPD after my first child, but not my 2nd, then with my 3rd it started in the 3rd trimester and 5months after delivery I'm still really struggling and don't seem to be responding well to treatment.

I'm starting to wonder that even though there is research suggesting that PPD rates increase when you don't breastfeed that maybe as an individual that might not be how I work.

However, I'm very attached to breastfeeding and had really been hoping to nurse for 2 years, I really can't imagine not doing it, I love the convenience, I hate the idea of having to wash bottles and all that is involved with formula feeding, it would definitely be a big loss to me to stop breastfeeding, even if there was a clear cut, unquestionable reason.

But stopping breastfeeding isn't a definite solution, only a possible one, but equally I feel like I have to consider all options, I've been so low for so long now that I've even given consideration to ECT, though I haven't discussed it with my doctor.

I'm so confused right now!

[Squrrl]

Okay, this is my third try at writing this post, as my emotions are very high on nearly this exact subject right now, and I can't seem to get my thoughts organized. I actually came today to start my own thread on this subject, but actually you seem like you might be talking about the exact same thing anyway, so I might as well hop onto this thread. Especially since it looks, from other responses, as if none of us are so alone in our experience as one might think.

My daughter is, as I sometimes call her, the Boob Queen. At 26 months, she often nurses for literally hours a day. I never enjoyed nursing--the physical sensation of her sucking at the nipple ranges, depending on my mental state and availability of distractions, from subliminally irritating to unbearable. I cannot sleep when she nurses, and she prefers to nurse nearly all night, though I have just in the last week begun to try a partial night weaning for my sanity's sake. Doing so has stirred up some heavy emotions, as I realize just how much my dislike of nursing has negatively impacted these first years of my daughter's life.

I had enormous trouble bonding with her at first, despite a problem-free home birth and supportive environment. I still am frankly not sure that I feel the passionate affection for her that other women describe feeling for their children. I have no real idea whether this has anything to do with hormones, but I do know that breastfeeding has been more of a wedge than a bond between us, as she always wants it and I always dislike it. Lately, when I've been experimenting with refusing to nurse, she has instead wanted to just snuggle, which otherwise she never does, and I have felt more love and affection for her at those times than I ever do normally. Then, of course, I want more of that...and she wants more boob, to make up for the earlier refusal.

I have been clinically depressed pre-pregnancy, and so feel fairly confident in saying that I have NOT been clinically depressed post-pregnancy, but, looking back, I do seem to have been missing my old fire almost entirely. I've gotten it back a day or two at a time when my daughter (briefly) sleeps better at night--but, on contemplation, I've also felt happier sometimes after nights when (in desperation) I abdicate to Papa for the night and hardly sleep at all to hang out on the computer. So for all I know, the improvement might be only partly from sleeping more, and partly from, well, nursing less.

I also had a very slow return to my period--22 months, in fact--and have wondered before if that was a sign of low estrogen. Certainly I have always had a strong milk supply, which, if low estrogen is supportive of milk production, might be considered another sign. I participated in another thread a while back with quite a number of women all of whom had high milk supply, very slow returns to menstruation, and (unlike the OP here but definitely like myself) very low body fat. We wondered at the time if this was a profile associated with low estrogen levels--perhaps, in that case, the low body fat acted (acts, rather, I suppose) to help suppress return to normal estrogen levels? I know fat is involved in estrogen production. I have also wondered if the low estrogen itself might be amended with some sort of supplementation? I do not know.

So now, in addition to sharing your dread of starting a new nursing relationship with the next one, I have also the huge weight of whether or not to try weaning a very strong-willed and demanding toddler who is, herself, emphatically not ready to wean. I tried don't offer-don't refuse for months. I tried offering food and drink, tried distraction, tried talking to her about nursing less, and thus far, nothing short of flat refusal will deter her in the short run, and in the long run, we always nurse. A lot.

I am very interested in the low-estrogen angle. Is there a way to test for that? Hormone levels do vary from pregnancy to pregnancy, right? So like someone already said, we should try to at least not sweat it so much about that and just play it as it comes.

Sorry to write such a long post about myself on someone else's thread, but it really seems as though we might have a very similar problem. Except that I still need to figure out about my more immediate problem, since my daughter is still nursing.

[rightkindofme]

Ladies, reading your stories makes me sad. I'm sad that this part of parenting is sucking so much for you. Yes, there are tremendous benefits to nursing. Your sanity, happiness, and joy at life are all significant things to weigh against the benefits of nursing. How good of a mother can you be if you are seriously depressed or resentful? I'm a pretty hardcore nurser, but if I was having an experience like you I wouldn't be doing this. You matter too. We don't give up our worth when we have children. We don't give up our right to be whole complete happy people.

Make whatever choice will make you comfortable in your skin.

[dollyanna]

This is very interesting. I also stopped being depressed and bonded better with my baby when my she weaned. I always attributed it to me not being able to produce enough milk & being really stressed out about nursing/supplementing/baby gaining weight/etc.

Personally, I would try to nurse again armed with the knowledge that I gained the last time and I would LIKE to think that I would stop if I thought it was affecting my mood, but who knows if I would actually do that in the moment.

The other thing I would do is take big doses of magnesium and riboflavin. I don't remember exactly which one does what, but I believe both are helpful for mood stabilization and one of them is supposed to help regulate estrogen levels.

[Blueone]

Originally Posted by dollyanna

Personally, I would try to nurse again armed with the knowledge that I gained the last time and I would LIKE to think that I would stop if I thought it was affecting my mood, but who knows if I would actually do that in the moment.

The other thing I would do is take big doses of magnesium and riboflavin. I don't remember exactly which one does what, but I believe both are helpful for mood stabilization and one of them is supposed to help regulate estrogen levels.

I want to try again too, but I'm going to be taking it one day at a time. If I start to get really depressed or cry every time I feed him because I'm resentful then I'll stop.