being a minority hs er [long] - Page 2

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Marimami

Just an observation... unlike the previous posters, when I saw the title, I absolutely knew she was referring to race. I strongly believe that if you have to face racial issues directly on a daily basis, it is very difficult to forget or ignore them.

Holli

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by Daffodil103

I could go on and on. I was at a hs event a few weeks ago. The mom next to me had an oh-so-adorable DD was singing and miming. I couldn't help saying that to the mom. I could see her visibly withdraw.. We did chat a bit after but I could tell she was a bit uncomfortable.

I have to say that totally sucks But then I also have to admit that 25yrs ago... that person was me (where is the SUPER embarassed to admit that smilie?!?!) I grew up in the deep south in the US, and racial fear is all but BRED there.. or at least was at the time, I've been gone 20yrs so I dont' know now. I'd like to hope it has improved. Nowdays though, I'd be more likely to ask if you'd be willing to do a 'chat' with the kids and share stories, crafts and maybe foods from your native land

I honestly can't imagine what that must be like for you to deal with... and I feel sorry for the other person for missing out on knowing someone who seems like a cool mama.

And yes, as a very white mama, I definitely knew this thread was about race. I'm about as minority religion as they come, but that isn't visible.. so it's easy to go unnoticed... totally not the same ball of wax at all.

[justthinkn]

And yes, as a very white mama, I definitely knew this thread was about race. I'm about as minority religion as they come, but that isn't visible.. so it's easy to go unnoticed... totally not the same ball of wax at all.

Such a good point!

I know many who've posted suggesting there may be other factors involved are trying to be helpful, but I would suggest in return that we (I'm the caucasian one in our multiracial family) don't always want to acknowledge subtle racial tension, discomfort, whatever you want to call it... But if we want the homeschooling community to be open and welcoming to all, we have to take seriously the experiences people of color share and not discount them too quickly.

[cheery]

Thanks for all the replies. It has been helpful for me to read these and think more about what actually is bothering me and what I want to do about it.

Let me see if I can explain. I have been part of one hs group for the past 3 years. It has a larger catchment area, hence there are a few more black / brown / other nonwhite people in the group - but again, since the events are spread out, we dont get to many of them, and most of the time we are the only nonwhite family present at the events we do attend.

I agree with many of the PPs that color is not the only diversity that hs'ers need to deal with and one can be a minority in various less visible and sometimes less accepted ways.

In fact, thinking about this, i wonder if my carlessness is what has made me more left-out than my race or national origin per se. In the larger hs co-op i did ask for rides and pitched in for gas and/or brought snacks, etc. It seemed to be going okay for the first two years. At times people would offer me a ride even before i asked. But then suddenly this year I havent' been able to get a ride from anyone and on top of that they have stopped replying to my emails in general. So I am wary about asking for rides. In the new one I am sticking to events that are in walking distance or reachable by bus though this will be difficult in the winter. At times I have taken taxis as well but that is not sustainable. Getting a car is just too huge of a lifestyle change for me and I would probably reconsider hs'ing if it became too hard to do without a car or if I felt that it was unfair for me to ask for rides so often.

Back to the new hs group I joined, if you have the patience to lend an ear, let me tell you what happened last week just as an example. Moms were casually conversing and I was lingering nearby when one picked up a cookie from the ground and handed it back to a kid. Everyone laughed, and one mom said, "dirt don't hurt!" I piped in with what I thought was an innocuous comment, "The NY Times said dirt is good for you."

It was as if I had said something wrong. The atmosphere turned cold. "We don't read the New York Times," one mom replied. No one else said anything. Attempting to get back the atmosphere of light banter, I asked, "oh, what do you read?" She named some other papers. I nodded with a smile. She added that she was a right-wing extremist. I could not think of a casual response to that so I merely kept a smile on my face. I truly hope that having different political views should not get in the way of being friendly. Maybe we're not going to hang out outside of hs events, but at least within the hs events I would like to feel comfortable with everyone. But after that conversation I feel like I have to watch every word I say.

I am making allowances for the fact that i am new but I also want to do better than I have been able to do in the other hs group. I am also feeling that I shouldn't leave the old group because then the next person of color who joins will again feel that she is the only one.

[kittywitty]

If it were me, I would not go to that group. It sounds like they have some major issues. Has there been major turnovers in people in the group? Like a lot of new people or financial problems in the group?

I agree politics should stay out if it. Ideally. And religion if it's not a religious group. The only hs group around here tried to get me to proclaim Jesus as my Savior on the phone before they let me join. I knew that group wouldn't work even though it was "secular". Has there been some drama in your group with new people running it? Maybe stepping back for awhile and trying to get a closer group of people that aren't weird to you might work? One within easy walking distance?

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by cheery

Back to the new hs group I joined, if you have the patience to lend an ear, let me tell you what happened last week just as an example. Moms were casually conversing and I was lingering nearby when one picked up a cookie from the ground and handed it back to a kid. Everyone laughed, and one mom said, "dirt don't hurt!" I piped in with what I thought was an innocuous comment, "The NY Times said dirt is good for you."

It was as if I had said something wrong. The atmosphere turned cold. "We don't read the New York Times," one mom replied. No one else said anything. Attempting to get back the atmosphere of light banter, I asked, "oh, what do you read?" She named some other papers. I nodded with a smile. She added that she was a right-wing extremist.

wow. geez. I have definitely experienced this type of thing. A lot of HS in groups I've been a part of take every.single.thing you say very literally. Had you said something like that to me regarding the dirt I would have laughed about it. I totally know where you are coming from (unfortunately). When my kids were in a school for a couple of years I got comments from several other parents about how weird/snobby most HS parents were and at that time I kind of agreed with them because I had been through so many bad interactions with other HS over the years leading up to that point.

[dex_millie]

Originally Posted by Marimami

Just an observation... unlike the previous posters, when I saw the title, I absolutely knew she was referring to race. I strongly believe that if you have to face racial issues directly on a daily basis, it is very difficult to forget or ignore them.

Holli

That is the first thing I thought too. I am not fully AA. I am mix Caribbean black and French and was raised in the Caribbean, have an accent and grammer and style is different from up here. Most of the places I go I find myself feeling like you(even though my skin is not brown you can tell I am mixed black or you might think spanish). I stand or sit while listening to all the chatter and feel I can never fit in. When I do talk I have to talk slow and think to make sure my grammer is fitting to the people around me. My way culture of joking or talking seems loud and arguement to others so then I have to watch out for that too when I get in a conversation. I just always feel left alone. And to top it off even when I am with my own caribbean people academics, homeschooling, breastfeeding, doing more a GD type thing....they just don't understand or are stuck in their old ways...but I understand the feeling of being the one of the only "different one".

[dex_millie]

...........................

[phoebemommy]

Wow -- Getting uptight about dirt in the New York Times? I'm a conservative leaning type and I'm not wild about the NYT, but that's just a silly thing to make an issue about. It's not like you were waxing on about some op-ed column or something.

She was probably sort of kidding about the "right-wing extremist" thing, by the way. I suspect, anyway. She probably took offense to comments somewhere in the news about people going to tea parties and town hall protests, and sort of lost her civility over it. I would take it as a reflection on her own insecurities rather than on you and your ethnicity or politics.

I had to quit a playgroup last year because the moms there, who had NO sense of decorum in general, kept ambushing me about who I was voting for, quite rudely, first thing in the morning before I'd even had any coffee. They were also ones to rant loudly and often about abortion and religion. It was baffling, and I think several other ladies stopped going as well. I don't know what happened to the old adage about religion and politics not being topics for polite conversation.

I would tend to agree that if things don't turn around, it's probably better to quit that group and try to find other arrangements. It sounds like it's just a bad vibe in there, which is probably more about immature people than race and politics. I understand why a homeschool group is a nice thing to have, but if you can't find a good one you can get a ride to, maybe you should look for other sorts of opportunities to mix with people. That's where I got to with playgroups, when I couldn't find a good one on my side of town. Now we just do lots of other stuff and meet people as we go.

[atreyyena]

a little worried myself

Hi, not AA myself, just another whitey, but I can relate to a lot of the posts here about not necessarily fitting in.

I haven't even started hsing-my son just turned 5 and the program we're in starts in july, but I am really worried because I am quite Non Christian, and this last August I finally came Out, and I totally don't expect to meet any lesbian homeschoolers where I am. On top of it all, I'm still married to my husband, so I Look like your stereotypical 'could be a christian, straight, homeschooling wife'......I feel like I'm being painted by my situation into something that I'm not.

But to bring it all up? That's more than a little scary.

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by cheery

In fact, thinking about this, i wonder if my carlessness is what has made me more left-out than my race or national origin per se. In the larger hs co-op i did ask for rides and pitched in for gas and/or brought snacks, etc. It seemed to be going okay for the first two years. At times people would offer me a ride even before i asked. But then suddenly this year I havent' been able to get a ride from anyone and on top of that they have stopped replying to my emails in general.

um wow.. people have just put you on apparent ignore?? I'm assuming nothing major has happened or you'd remember that... so it's incredibly weird that you suddenly are being feeling like you're pushed out. I have no insight as to what would make a group be so rude sorry I sorta thought it was only a new group problem, not one you'd been going to for a while!

Back to the new hs group I joined, if you have the patience to lend an ear, let me tell you what happened last week just as an example. Moms were casually conversing and I was lingering nearby when one picked up a cookie from the ground and handed it back to a kid. Everyone laughed, and one mom said, "dirt don't hurt!" I piped in with what I thought was an innocuous comment, "The NY Times said dirt is good for you."

It was as if I had said something wrong. The atmosphere turned cold. "We don't read the New York Times," one mom replied. No one else said anything. Attempting to get back the atmosphere of light banter, I asked, "oh, what do you read?" She named some other papers. I nodded with a smile. She added that she was a right-wing extremist. I could not think of a casual response to that so I merely kept a smile on my face.

OOoook... sounds bizarre. I'm guessing the papers she listed off backed up the right wing statement? I honestly would have just cracked up laughing myself Or had to try reeeeally hard not to! It really sounds more and more like this is a very religious crowd and your hint of liberal (and thus in their minds anti religious?) politics is almost as big an issue as race? Either way, what a lovely group to be hangin out with *insert dripping sarcasm*

Originally Posted by kittywitty

If it were me, I would not go to that group. It sounds like they have some major issues. Has there been major turnovers in people in the group? Like a lot of new people or financial problems in the group?

I agree politics should stay out if it. Ideally. And religion if it's not a religious group. The only hs group around here tried to get me to proclaim Jesus as my Savior on the phone before they let me join. I knew that group wouldn't work even though it was "secular". Has there been some drama in your group with new people running it? Maybe stepping back for awhile and trying to get a closer group of people that aren't weird to you might work? One within easy walking distance?

Yeah I'd probably take a miss on the group as well, and maybe even put feelers out for other ppl that have felt uncomfortable in the group to see if a new, more inclusive group, might be in order! Kitty, I've seen groups like that too... I avoid them like teh plague.

[phathui5]

But I often feel that the other parents are much more comfortable talking to one another and when I join the conversation it becomes a bit more formal - still friendly, but not as familiar and gabby.

Are these people you know well? Maybe the tone is changing because a "new person" is joining in.

[NishaG]

OP, check out http://www.MochaMoms.org . It's an organization of moms of color who are SAHMs. You can check to see if there is a chapter in your area, and, I would assume, maybe some of them homeschool? HTH.

[naismama]

Originally Posted by justthinkn

I know many who've posted suggesting there may be other factors involved are trying to be helpful, but I would suggest in return that we (I'm the caucasian one in our multiracial family) don't always want to acknowledge subtle racial tension, discomfort, whatever you want to call it... But if we want the homeschooling community to be open and welcoming to all, we have to take seriously the experiences people of color share and not discount them too quickly.

Thank you for this.

To the OP, I can relate to the feelings you describe. I am a brown mama in a very white area; I have encountered very few non-white homeschoolers in groups around here. I keep writing lots of thoughts and then erasing, because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be received in the way I am meaning I'll just say here that I know it's hard--and you can pm me if you want to talk or support each other online.

--naismama

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by naismama

Thank you for this.

To the OP, I can relate to the feelings you describe. I am a brown mama in a very white area; I have encountered very few non-white homeschoolers in groups around here. I keep writing lots of thoughts and then erasing, because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be received in the way I am meaning I'll just say here that I know it's hard--and you can pm me if you want to talk or support each other online.

--naismama

I also think that the posters here on MDC are not avg joes.. we're here on MDC because, for the most part, our way of thinking is Different. So for most of US, we'd never want to exclude someone or make them feel awkward because of race.. whereas in society at large there are people that do just that. Or have no idea how to relate to people who are different than they are. So, while I absolutely cannot empathize ... I certainly think the situation sucks right along with you. Please do know though, that SOME of us in the home ed community really DO want you here!

[cheery]

update ...

couple weeks after i wrote the above, another new family joined our group and i saw many people talking to her, even about their husbands and family things. So I knew that the reason people werent as chatty wth me as with others was NOT because I was new.

Now, a few more weeks have passed. I have limited my participation with my former hs group to one activity that I conduct myself. I am also feeling more friendliness in the new group that we have joined.

BUT
I am still the only nonwhite person in the group. We meet in a church, though the hs group itself is secular. the photos all over the church reflect an all white membership.
once while standing in the hallway chatting iwth other parents, they mentioned (with a token disclaimer "I know this sounds bad but ...") looking up "demographics" in the process of house-hunting. This means they are looking for places with fewest minorities.

I realise that as a homeschooler I am amidst groups that are more white than the rest of the population and in some way this is probably influencing their decision to homeschool.

Nothing I can really do about this but it is kind of sad to realise this.

[phathui5]

I don't know if you're African-American, but I found a great book for African-American homeschoolers: http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Challe.../dp/0962959111

[LionTigerBear]

Erm, I tend towards the conservative side myself, however . . .

when she identified herself pointedly as a "right-wing extremist" like that . . .

I can't help but think she was trying to send a hint that she has racist ideas. In other words, sending you a warning that you are not welcome to her.

Even if that's true, keep in mind she probably doesn't speak for the group, although they might initially be concerned about offending her or stirring the pot.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong and reading too much into it. That's just my gut feeling. I wish you were in my area! I would totally talk to you and once we get a minivan, I'd give you a ride, too!

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by Marimami

Just an observation... unlike the previous posters, when I saw the title, I absolutely knew she was referring to race. I strongly believe that if you have to face racial issues directly on a daily basis, it is very difficult to forget or ignore them.

This... but it doesn't surprise me that others might have missed it. Call me a cynic.

I'm mixed (very light-skinned and "white looking" unless I make an effort not to be-- which I do), as well as Jewish by birth, practicing Chaos Magick (Pagan would come closest, but doesn't exactly cover it). I have met a grand total of four non-white cyberschooling parents in the past few years, and one independent homeschooler of (if I recall correctly) Iranian descent who identified herself that way. We stand out like sore thumbs. That said, my children and I are odd and we were going to stand out anyway. Even if we were all as white as wallpaper paste and good, churchgoing Christians we would be weird. I know this, because people tend to assume both things about us when they meet us and we still stand out in a crowd.

These days, I revel in it. I find that the more relaxed and comfortable I/we are, the more relaxed and comfortable people are around us. I'm not ashamed of my heritage, my skin color, my religion, my politics, the beauty or intelligence of my children, etc. It works pretty well with the overwhelming majority of white people, whom I tend to refer to (if only in my head) as "benign ignorant racists". When you're talking about the overtly-racist, sheet-wearing sort it doesn't go quite as well... but those people tend to be a bit quieter in public, you know? The sort who keep talking but in a formal manner when I approach usually fall into the former category, and I can deal with that.

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by cheery

update ...

couple weeks after i wrote the above, another new family joined our group and i saw many people talking to her, even about their husbands and family things. So I knew that the reason people werent as chatty wth me as with others was NOT because I was new.

That kind of thing is one of the main reasons I just don't.like.people in general I am glad that you're feeling more welcome at the other group at least though! Not that it's worth much, but this very white mama thinks this is sad as well The world will never be a place where hate disappears because people will not give it a chance.