Thrush

[phrogger]

My nipples are killing me, stinging and it totally feels like thrush, but my baby has no white spots. I don't want to waste a trip to the Dr. if it is nothing, but is it possible to have thrush on my nipples but not having the yeast spots in his mouth?

[Heba]

Yes, it is - but if thrush is diagnosed, make sure that both of you are treated as it's possible for one to be asymptomatic and you don't want to go passing it backwards and forwards.

I like the Breastfeeding Network leaflet for reliable info on thrush: http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org....t_Feb_2009.pdf

Hugs, and hope you're feeling better soon. Thrush is no fun (British understatement there).

[phrogger]

It sounds like thrush from the pamphlet. It is painful while nursing, but much more painful after. He is popping on and off and he is screaming bloody murder throughout the day. All things that aren't normal for him. I was thinking maybe an ear infection with him, but my boobs hurt too much.

Would you call the ped or my dr. about it. Both are at the same place and I can get in to see either in about the same amount of time.

[Heba]

Don't know what US protocol would be. In an ideal world, *all* doctors who deal with nursing mums or babies would be properly trained in breastfeeding management including appropriate treatment options for thrush and so either would do! But we don't live in that world...since you're both probably infected, I guess you could logically see either, and I would go see the one who you think is probably better-versed in bf.

[phrogger]

That still leaves it a coin toss. Ped isn't too up to date on much of any of it, she advised not co sleeping and to stop nursing him at night since he is 4 months old. I don't even know my Dr., they just changed it. I will call and see who can get us in the fastest.

I did however read that tongue tied might cause an issue. Shane is tongue tied, but it hasn't been a problem. It wouldn't just become a problem now would it?

Thanks again Heba, I appreciate your advice, I was going to PM you on the other board if you didn't see this. (this is erin by the way incase you didn't know that, but I figured you did).

[Heba]

Eek! If it were me I'd go with the one who isn't the ped based on what you just said (but that's just me LOL). Although thrush does sound likely from what you've said, you would nonetheless want to rule out other causes of nipple pain so someone with a clue about bf would be good. Babe is now around 4 months, right? Changing positions as baby grows can sometimes cause new nipple pain, so it might be a good idea to revisit positioning and attachment.

I haven't heard of a link between tongue tie and thrush - is that what you meant? Or that tongue-tie can cause nipple pain and poor latch (popping on and off) - which is very possible BUT as you say, I think these kinds of problems are more likely to have shown up earlier (as far as I know, any bf problems caused by tongue tie are more likely to resolve with time if anything, not worsen - but perhaps other mamas here have experience of this).

And yup, I knew it was you .

Good luck, hope you get a good diagnosis and feel better soon!

[paulamc]

So many doctors are ill informed about treating thrush. My GP gave us Nystatin which was useless. When it didn't work she finally did give me a prescription of Diflucan, so she was willing to adjust.

However, the first time I had it, an LC at the hospital recommended a dermatologist in the area who also is certified in pediatrics and does cosmetic surgery - so he knows and can treat babies, skin and breasts. He had taken a particular interest in treating thrush and set us up on an aggressive protocol.

Anyway, it might not hurt to contact an LC or the LLL to ask if they know of any doctors who are well informed and know how to treat it. This is my ideal treatment regimen if it's bad:

diflucan/ fluconazole - oral for me, continuing two weeks past the absence of symptoms
Jack Newman's all purpose nipple ointment (APNO) - I LOVE this stuff
diflucan/ fluconazole oral suspension for babe, before each feeding

Jack Newman has a great protocol with additional information on things like grapefruitseed extract, gentian violet, and probiotics, all of which I've used and which helped.

http://www.drjacknewman.com/help/Candida-Protocol.asp

Good luck!

[diana_of_the_dunes]

Ugh, I feel your pain... My LO is a month old today, and we've been struggling with thrush/yeast issues since birth. Baby is on Nystatin, which is working for him, but slowly. I am only giving him half of the prescribed amount because he kept spitting it up. I was just prescribed diflucan today by my midwife. FWIW, I was using Lotramin (well, generic Target brand) on my nipples until I got in to see her, and it helped a LOT. I still have a bit of burning, but nothing like what it was last week. I may not need the diflucan at this point, and I'm normally not one for meds, but I'm going to err on the side of caution and take it anyways. I really don't want this stuff to come back on me or DS.

Good luck!

[paulamc]

I should add that YES - you definitely can have thrush while your babe is asymptomatic. DS never had the white patches, but we treated him as well.

[Heba]

How are you doing Erin? Any better today?

[phrogger]

No, not really. I am just frustrated. I can't get in to see any dr. Uggg. I know it is flu season, but seriously, they are getting hundreds of people daily wanting to be tested for the flu, even for a tiny sniffle. Anyway, because of that, I can't get in to see anyone in OB, family practice or peds. NO ONE can get me in, not even a walk in. They are suggesting me to go to urgent care, but warn me it is a 5 hour wait, and that is in a waiting room with people with the flu and other illnesses. Ugg. So basically, I haven't been seen. I am tempted to do the lotrimin thing and just treat at home for now. Not sure how good that is. The worst part too is DS HAD a WBV scheduled for Nov. 2nd. That is only a few days away, I could have just suffered through until then, but they are basically cancelling all WBV's because there are just too many sick people being seen.

I guess I wouldn't mind if the people were truly sick and needed to be seen, but i have a couple nurse friends who are telling me it is people with the flu, who just want to be tested, not that they need to be seen or need any treatment other then just rest.

So my boobs just hurt for now. Oh and DS isn't sleeping well right now, I think he is getting a little cold. Uggg, I just want a nap, and my boobs to stop hurting. HA.

[paulamc]

If you can't be seen by a doctor right now, have you had a look at Dr. Newman's protocol, link in my post above. Until you can be seen I highly suggest the following:

---Apply a diluted solution of grapefruit seed extract after every feeding (10 drops to 1 ounce of water). Some people use a vinegar rinse instead, but the GSE might be more effective.
---Let dry for a couple of minutes, then apply a cream with miconazole, such as lotrimin or monistat as I know you are considering.
---Consider a course of gentian violet - see Dr. Newman's instructions about that. This is messy but usually highly effective if you indeed have thrush. And, it treats the babe at the same time - you apply to your nipples then have the babe nurse to treat his mouth too.

If you think the thrush might be deep inside the breast as well (shooting pains inside the breast) you could also consider taking acidophilus and oral GSE tablets.

Hope that helps some, and good luck! Believe me, I know your pain.

[phrogger]

I will try that Paula. Payday is tonight so I have to wail until tomorrow, but I will try just about anything.

[Heba]

How are you feeling now?

[Phridae]

DS and I battled thrush for a while at 6 weeks. He never had white spots, but he did have a stubborn yeasty diaper rash. Me on the other hand, I had bring pink itchy nips that nearly made me cry everytime he had to nurse.
Probotics and gentian violet. The GV is messy, but it works. Acidophilious is the best probotic to treat thrush, but you may have to call around to find both items.
Here's some info on the GV.

This is going to be a bad year as far getting into see a doctor for anything. It sucks that people with a simple flu virus are taking up all the time. The most a doctor can give for the flu is tamiflu, which is supposed to shorten the duration of the flu. It starts working in 2-3 days, but by then most people are feeling better anyways so its though to know if it really works. I'm sorry you have to suffer.