a question about my son's uncirc penis...

[simplybecca]

My son is 4 1/2 years old. I'm afraid to talk to my pediatrician about my son's penis. When my son was an infant, during one of his well visits I watched in horror as the doctor retracted my son's foreskin and had a bloody mess when I got home. The doctor has not done anything like that again, so he finally must have read something or another patients' parent must have raised holy heck. I wish I had but I was just so shocked at the time, just speechless.

Anyway, that was my failing. I am still hesitate to bring the doctor's attention to my son's penis. So I've come back to this board (which helped me make my decision not to circumcise) with my question. It probably has been answered a hundred times already but I'm not good at searching for answers...

Again, my son is 4 1/2 years old. How retracted should the foreskin be at this point? When my son's shower is coming to the end, I say "show me yurtle," which is our cute little term for retract your foreskin for a rinse off. My understanding of uncirc penis care is just that - give it a rinse, no soap, no scrubbing. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I have no way of knowing. I don't have a penis. Even if I did have one, it would have been circumcised.

Should the foreskin retract all around the glans or just around the front?

About once a month, I go through a speech with my son, that he needs to keep it clean in there. My 7 year old daughter will pipe in about cheese, how everyone has it (even girls) and to keep it clean or it will smell bad. I'm just trying to make my son aware that at some point it will be his responsibility to keep clean and that it is important to remember this little step. I don't know. Am I going to far?

Thanks for any answers...

[CallMeMommy]

Since it sounds like he's already partially retractile, I say keep doing what you're doing. Let HIM retract and rinse, he'll only pull back as far as is comfortable. At this age he doesn't necessarily *need* to be able to retract at all, some kids don't until after puberty, so as long as it's not being forced back I wouldn't worry. My son discovered the whole "Hey! There's something hiding in here!" trick at about 3 years old so I just remind him to rinse in the bath.

[Fellow Traveler]

In truth there isn't a need for a four year old to retract his foreskin. Having said that I don't see any problem with encouraging it in the way you are, it will start a good habit early. So long as he is comfortable with it.

[ursaminor]

I dont think there is a real need to give him a speech about hygiene once a month. Did you give the same sort of speech to your DD, also?
Now that he has found he is retractable I dont think there is a need to remind him to retract, many boys retract with enthusiasm on their own without being asked. I have also heard there is some skepticism that pre-pubescent boys need to retract at all.

[FaithfulOne]

The pp's all made great suggestions. My ds's are 6 & 4 and my eldest can barely retract, my youngest not at all. When they are in the bath and playing with themselves (ahem, yes, every single chance they get ) I gently remind them to pull back to their comfort level so the bath water can rinse them clean. Nothing more. Of course my 4yo is only pulling and squeezing but in general he's learnng a personal hygiene routine.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Everyone has covered the washing thing so I will address the question about how retractable should he be. The answer to that is however much he is every boy is different and there is no set amount at any given time. Retraction happens any time between birth and adulthood with 10.5 years being the avg but that dosnt mean he should be retractable at that age just that most boys are.

[rabbitmum]

I live in a non-circing culture and have never heard of this issue at all. I have never told my sons to retract and rinse. They decide for themselves when they want to retract. It is not actually necessary for a child to rinse underneath the foreskin, in fact I would think it isn't necessarily a good thing to get bath water inside it.

My sons have never had any problems with their foreskins at all, not the slightest. I have never heard of anybody here worrying about cleaning inside their sons' foreskins either, I don't think it is common practice at all. I would think it is better to leave it alone.

[GoBecGo]

I'm in the UK. Adult men (who have a lot more smegma due to hormones making the foreskin a more active place and tend to be, ahem, using their foreskin) tend to rinse underneath whenever the wash in the bath/shower and occasionally in between (i.e. immediately after sex). Little boys....well, you just let the water rinse over it, you don't need to pull it back a bit or at all, or try to clean under it at all. In the same way that you don't need to go in cleaning all the creases and folds of a little girl's vulva, you can just let them sit in the bath/get rinsed in the shower. I feel the general view is that the penis of a little boy is inherently clean, probably cleaner than the bath water that just swished past his little butt, before you even begin "washing" there. Under a foreskin takes care of itself like inside a vagina does. You don't need to put bathwater there either. The major cause of infections in little kids (UTI, vaginosis, balanitis) is usually e.coli, and that is not from not washing genitals, it's from touching the bum-hole and then the urethra/vagina/glans or wiping back-to-front (girls). Keeping HANDS clean prevents way more infections than keeping little willies will.

[WC_hapamama]

I have 3 intact boys, and their foreskins became fully retractable at different ages. I never messed with the foreskins of the younger two, but apparently MIL had been trying to retract DS1's because that's what DH's ped told her to do way back in the day.

I think DS1 was around 7, DS2 around 5, and ds3 around age 3.

[SlackerDad]

Originally Posted by rabbitmum

I live in a non-circing culture and have never heard of this issue at all. I have never told my sons to retract and rinse. They decide for themselves when they want to retract. It is not actually necessary for a child to rinse underneath the foreskin, in fact I would think it isn't necessarily a good thing to get bath water inside it.

My sons have never had any problems with their foreskins at all, not the slightest. I have never heard of anybody here worrying about cleaning inside their sons' foreskins either, I don't think it is common practice at all. I would think it is better to leave it alone.

I'm glad to read this one. I was sort of worried as I read the others as I don't really mess with it and don't retract except during intercourse (my foreskin is long/loose enough that it doesn't retract just from erection, which I only through intactivism learned is not the rule for most intact men). I clean the outside thoroughly of course, and I kind of figured the inside got "cleaned" in a sense through urination. :::

[GoBecGo]

If it's of any relevance to anyone practically every other mammal which cannot reach it's penis with it's mouth cleans its penis BY HAVING intercourse, and the females of those species genitals are designed specifically to cope just fine with that (humans included)

[loudmama]

Glad for the thread! My 3 1/2 yo's foreskin retracted on its own recently & I was a bit concerned. He got an erection when I was putting on his pull-up & his foreskin retracted pretty far. It seemed to hurt & wouldn't come down. I touched it a bit & it came down, but his penis was red on the end. Prior to this it just got tight & revealed the tip when he had an erection. I just hope it doesn't to cause any problems. I called my sister whose boys are intact & she seemed shocked it retracted, so I was a bit worried. Nice to confirm that it retracting that far is in the realm of normal. It sees fine now.

Thanks,
L

[happy mamma]

did not anticipate this one

I can hardly express the distress I feel now that a doctor has suggested that my six year old be circumcised. My son has had some minor complaints about occasional pain during urination. Upon examination a doctor referred us to a urologist. The specialists opinion is that my son has scar tissue that is likely from an infection which is blocking the tip of his penis. Also that his foreskin is attached and could continue to grow together and ultimately block the tip of his penis. Over time this will present as an increasingly serious problem including issues like tearing and increased pain. The urologists only prescribed treatment is circumcision. I feel that there must be another option. I hope there is. If this is a problem anyone has heard about or you have any resources to direct me to please help. The short term pain, as awful as it would be, is nothing to the long term damage I fear if we must move forward with surgery on the my son.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Odds are it is just seperation pain read this thread and see if it matches http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=764732 this thread explains the type of pain your are describing for your ds. Unless your ds has been repeatedly retracted and hurt causing scare tissue he does not have a problem with his foreskin from your description. He is just having normal "growing pains"

The only true reasons for circ are frostbite, gangrene and cancer. The avg. age of retraction is 10.5 before that it isnt an issue.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by loudmama

Glad for the thread! My 3 1/2 yo's foreskin retracted on its own recently & I was a bit concerned. He got an erection when I was putting on his pull-up & his foreskin retracted pretty far. It seemed to hurt & wouldn't come down. I touched it a bit & it came down, but his penis was red on the end. Prior to this it just got tight & revealed the tip when he had an erection. I just hope it doesn't to cause any problems. I called my sister whose boys are intact & she seemed shocked it retracted, so I was a bit worried. Nice to confirm that it retracting that far is in the realm of normal. It sees fine now.

Thanks,
L

Making sure that it is put back is the important thing since it can get stuck behind the glans causing paraphimosis which is mentioned in the thread I linked to in my pp.

[rabbitmum]

Originally Posted by happy mamma

The specialists opinion is that my son has scar tissue that is likely from an infection which is blocking the tip of his penis. Also that his foreskin is attached and could continue to grow together and ultimately block the tip of his penis. Over time this will present as an increasingly serious problem including issues like tearing and increased pain. The urologists only prescribed treatment is circumcision.

It is almost hard for me to believe that a specialist would give such an advice! I am not sure from your post whether the doctor thinks the scar tissue that blocks the urinary opening is on the tip of the penis or on the foreskin itself. But, if the scar had been caused by an infection on the penis itself, a foreskin more or less wouldn't change anything, and if it was caused by an infection on the foreskin, wouldn't you have noticed that there was an infection before? (That would still not have been a reason to chop it off, of course!) And this thing about the foreskin "grow[ing] together and ultimately block[ing] the tip of his penis"... it is just weird. It is completely normal for the foreskin of a six year old to be attached to his penis, why on earth would it grow like that?

I assume it has been checked whether it could be a UTI (which is rare in boys, but can cause pain and difficulties peeing).

You can rest assured that no urologist in a country like mine, where people are used to foreskins, would recommend circumcision in a case like this. They NEVER do. "Your" specialist is simply exhibiting amazing ignorance, so don't worry that you have to accept this being done to your son!

As the previous poster said it is most likely separation pains. If it isn't, then by all means find a different urologist!

Good luck, hope your son feels better soon!

[SlackerDad]

Originally Posted by rabbitmum

You can rest assured that no urologist in a country like mine, where people are used to foreskins, would recommend circumcision in a case like this. They NEVER do. "Your" specialist is simply exhibiting amazing ignorance, so don't worry that you have to accept this being done to your son!

This is a key, key point. I think urologists here stand there with their own penises mostly circed, look down at an intact boy who has some sort of trouble or other, and their default assumption is to make the spurious correlation "he is intact, he has a problem, therefore it is cause and effect". Whereas they of course get tonnes of other boys and men who come with problems and if they are circed they don't blame that (though in many cases they probably should) because that is their default.

I'm irked too!