First-timer and frustrated

[beatgenxer]

I'm a new mom. Baby Jack is 5 days old now. We are having quite the time BF. The first few days it was getting him to latch on plus I think I really wasn't making anything - he'd only feed for five minutes and then drop off. He also has a recessed chin, which I've been told can complicate latch.

We seem to be ok with latching, but now he's become very lazy about feeding. The past few have been at least 30 minutes each before he'll reluctantly drop. I think the issues might be that I have large breasts (G or H cup right now) and my milk flow is slow. It's there when I hand express or use the hospital-grade pump but I only get 10ml tops on the pump for 10-15 min.

I'm just so worried because we've been in the hospital for two days now battling jaundice (he came in with a bilirubin level of 21) and I keep on blaming myself for not producing enough fluids to help his liver flush everything out. So any advice would be great right now.

[Katie T]

Hugs it sounds ok in the beginning you have small amounts of colostrum have you had your milk come in yet? Most wonem notice this with a engorgement period a few days after birth. Just make sure you ar getting him 2 the breast every 1 to 2 hrs G L

[boobs4milk]

hi rebecca! i'm sorry things are so rough right now. get better vibes coming your way.

this sounds crazy but it works...THINK about rivers flowing when you are pumping. i was getting zero milk or colostrum at first when i had millie and i got very upset and thought about just quitting. i decided that i HAD to make milk for her, so i told my self 'you can do this, you can grow this baby, you can MAKE MILK.' i would repeat those thoughts to myself while pumping. it made a huge difference because i started getting 20 mls of colostrum about 14 hrs after her birth.

i also had to be sure to eat more and drink more water. i have GAINED 15 lbs since her birth, but that's what it takes for my body to make milk. also, oatmeal is my friend and it really does help!

but i really think that mind-set can help you when you are having issues. additionally, i've always been told that the baby is more efficient than the pump. i am having OVERSUPPLY issues now...go figure! but i'd rather have too much then not enough, so i keep telling myself that i CAN and WILL feed this baby. we just have to work a bit on getting it 'right' for the both of us.

one last thing i wanted to tell you was that babies with high bili counts are usually tired and slow to eat. we were told we needed to poke more milk down millie to stave off the rising levels and clear out her system. we then discovered that she hadn't had a poop in a few days and asked for a suppository. once she had a few good poops, her levels dropped off within a DAY. her levels were lower than your ds's (at just under 11) but it dropped off after the poop without having to increase her feeds or supplement.

s and thinking of you! don't give up mama!

[haydn'smommy]

Originally Posted by beatgenxer

I'm a new mom. Baby Jack is 5 days old now. We are having quite the time BF. The first few days it was getting him to latch on plus I think I really wasn't making anything - he'd only feed for five minutes and then drop off. He also has a recessed chin, which I've been told can complicate latch.

We seem to be ok with latching, but now he's become very lazy about feeding. The past few have been at least 30 minutes each before he'll reluctantly drop. I think the issues might be that I have large breasts (G or H cup right now) and my milk flow is slow. It's there when I hand express or use the hospital-grade pump but I only get 10ml tops on the pump for 10-15 min.

I'm just so worried because we've been in the hospital for two days now battling jaundice (he came in with a bilirubin level of 21) and I keep on blaming myself for not producing enough fluids to help his liver flush everything out. So any advice would be great right now.

I wanted to address this. He's not necessarily being lazy. 5 min for a feeding is not long enough for a newborn. The 30min feeding is more normal. He's not being lazy; he's telling your body to make milk. Do not force him to stop nursing before he comes off, even if he nurses for a long time. Breastmilk is a supply and demand thing. You won't make milk and increase the volume made if you don't get the stimulation.
Also, the pump does not mimic what baby gets. Don't rely on that as a measurement of how much milk you have. Just nurse the baby right now. Lots of skin to skin, use breast compressions to help your milk flow faster for him, and nurse.
Good luck!!

[beatgenxer]

Thanks everyone who replied so quickly. That alone is appreciated when I'm stuck in the hospital

boobs4milk - that is a great visualization and meditation to use. I'm all about using techniques like that to get the mind and body in synch.

haydn'smommy - my MW stopped by soon after I posted and said the same thing after she watched me latch and nurse. She reassured me that he's getting what he needs (he's been pooping up a storm today, which means he's able to clear out all those old red blood cells) - he's just getting used to all the sensations and adjustments of nursing so for now we'll just take longer to nurse and it will feel like I'm nursing all the time, but it will get better and easier and quicker.

[haydn'smommy]

I remember telling the nurse at Emery's one week check up that he nursed 17 times per day and for 1 hr each time. LOL. I felt like a dairy cow and all I was good for was boobs. (Of course, I loved it cause I missed out on all this good snuggle time with ds1). Now he nurses for 15-20min, 7-10min each side, every 2-2.5hrs. It does get easier and less time consuming.

[spitbath]

you can do it, mama!
my little one is 4wks now, and i remember how many hurdles we jumped over, but we made it! i'm so glad BFing was such a priority for us, bc there were lots of times i could've just given up. you can do it!!

just know that it does get easier..

[preemiemamarach]

Hang in there! My 5 week old had a bili that went up to 19, and it was next to impossible to make her nurse. I am also very large breasted with a tiny baby, slow flow (EPing for my first child made me let down *more* for a pump than a baby), and the same feeding pattern at first. Also, if your son is on phototherapy, he is suuuuuuper sleepy from that.

Glad he's pooping a lot- that's a great sign!

One thing we did was to syringe-feed dd some ebm while she was nursing, which would make her swallow and stay awake a bit more.

Good luck to you!

[aksign]

I remember having a very similar experience, right down to the recessed chin!!

We had BR up to 18 (he had suction during birth which caused a bruise on his head and increased BR count). VERY stressful time trying to get that count down- going to the hopsital 2x/day for heel prick to test levels, rented BR light- I am just glad that we didnt have to stay in hospital the whole time!

but anyway, we ended up "having to" (doc's orders and we were scared to death) use SNS with formula for a bit of the time, which I assumed was the end of bfeeding, but that was completely not the case. I am sure it can go either way, and I have often wonder about "the jaundice card" and breastfeeding.... but we were bound and determined, and only supplemented for a few days at most. DS has never taken bottle, a year old now, and we love bfeeding more than ever. My heart goes out to you!! I was so happy when that level came down and we were free of the awful, but necessary, bili-blanket and I could hold him for as long as I wanted!!!

[beatgenxer]

Thanks for all the support mamas!

We're home again and he's getting better. My milk is definitely in (some leakage from both breasts). But two more questions:

1. Is a 40 min feeding on one breast normal?

2. He's killing my nipples. They come out of his mouth looking like tubes of lipstick.

Thanks again ladies!

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by beatgenxer

1. Is a 40 min feeding on one breast normal?

It can be. Does he then take the other breast too? 80 min a feed is hard for Mama, especially if you are feeding every 120 minutes!

Have you tried breast compressions when he stops actively swallowing to get him going again? Some good videos here: www.drjacknewman.com

Some Moms find that if baby gets sleepy on one breast that they can keep baby awake and actively feeding longer if they switch to the other breast as soon as active feeding - sucking and swallowing stops, and then switch back etc. This 'switch nursing' is sometimes the key - but messes up block feeding if a mama is doing that.

2. He's killing my nipples. They come out of his mouth looking like tubes of lipstick.

Sometimes it helps to see how baby's body is positioned when nursing. A slight adjustment (pulling baby closer to you, or making sure he is positioned low enough so his neck is extended) can help with the latch.

Other things that may help - getting enough breast into the mouth when you latch. That's hard with a little little one, but worth aiming for each time.

-experimenting with how you latch. Do you point your nipply up to the roof of his mouth? Is that better? Do you aim it right back into his mouth? Is that better? Different nipple and mouth anatomy work best with different positions.


I'm glad things are better than before. Hang in there, Mama. You guys will work this out.

[haydn'smommy]

The lipstick nipple....I suffered for 6 wks with that. We thought at first it was his tongue tie, but we had that clipped when he was 2 days old. And although that relieved the pain, it didn't stop the lipstick nipple. What we found is that I have big nips/areolas and he had a teeny mouth that he didn't open very wide. I had to really work to find a position that got him opening wider. Even then, when he would nurse at night, he'd get lazy and start slipping off and it would get very painful and my nipple would look like that. Only in the past 2 wks has that stopped altogether. Hang in there, mama, it does get better.

[boobs4milk]

***raising hand*** i have the lipstick nipples. i've been letting her latch herself (we have horrible latch issues) and get comfy and it's better. we watched a video called 'baby led breastfeeding' that i got from the WIC lc and it has helped. she usually ends up nursing laying at a 45 degree angle instead of the snuggled up, hips, shoulders, feet aligned. it helps her latch better.

[abiyhayil]

Have you tried the football hold with baby at your side? It may help get a better latch with his recessed chin. I also find compressions easier with that hold

[haydn'smommy]

Originally Posted by boobs4milk

***raising hand*** i have the lipstick nipples. i've been letting her latch herself (we have horrible latch issues) and get comfy and it's better. we watched a video called 'baby led breastfeeding' that i got from the WIC lc and it has helped. she usually ends up nursing laying at a 45 degree angle instead of the snuggled up, hips, shoulders, feet aligned. it helps her latch better.

i could never get comfy doing that.
i would sit cross legged on the bed or sofa and sit his little butt down in between my legs so that he was sitting upright, tummy to tummy, with me. i'd lean him a little toward whichever side we were going to nurse on and then lean his head back and rest it on my forearm. that head tilted back thing seemed to encourage him to open bigger. i'd make the nipple sandwich and rub my nipple from his nose to his lower lip and get him to start opening and then i'd kind of "flop" my boob in there so that the bottom edge of the areola was hitting the bottom lip and making him open just a bit bigger. then i'd hold that nipple sandwich for the first few sucks to make sure he was on there good. then i'd scoot my hand back and start compressions.
even now, i still have to do compressions and shape my breast for him. and although we can do the more traditional cradle hold, etc now, we are still more comfy with that strange tummy to tummy, almost upright feeding. (it also helped with my strong letdown)

[beatgenxer]

Oh thank goodness there's other mamas here who have it too. I had a feeling it was something about him not opening wide enough. I've found the cross cradle to be better than lying down but since my "bottom" is still healing up from birth, I can't sit like that for too long. Love the tips from all of you that have worked for you. Hopefully one of those or something similar will work for me :-)

[boobs4milk]

Originally Posted by haydn'smommy

i could never get comfy doing that.
i would sit cross legged on the bed or sofa and sit his little butt down in between my legs so that he was sitting upright, tummy to tummy, with me. i'd lean him a little toward whichever side we were going to nurse on and then lean his head back and rest it on my forearm. that head tilted back thing seemed to encourage him to open bigger. i'd make the nipple sandwich and rub my nipple from his nose to his lower lip and get him to start opening and then i'd kind of "flop" my boob in there so that the bottom edge of the areola was hitting the bottom lip and making him open just a bit bigger. then i'd hold that nipple sandwich for the first few sucks to make sure he was on there good. then i'd scoot my hand back and start compressions.
even now, i still have to do compressions and shape my breast for him. and although we can do the more traditional cradle hold, etc now, we are still more comfy with that strange tummy to tummy, almost upright feeding. (it also helped with my strong letdown)

this is almost what we do too, as far as positioning. i just couldn't explain it that well lol

[beatgenxer]

Thanks again mamas for the advice. We were starting to work on latching better when today I and my MW realized Jack has developed a case of thrush, which is causing excruciating pain when I nurse. She ordered gentian violet for me which will come in tomorrow. Tried to feed him with pumped milk and an oral syringe but he wouldn't calm down till he was on the breast. SIGH. so I have to get through the next 24 hours till I can start treatment and it starts working.

So one thing after another, after another...It gets easier, right?

[PatioGardener]

Oh Mama, I am SO sorry you guys have thrush now! Remember to wash all your bras in vinegar, and also anything that goes in his mouth needs to be 'de-yeasted' too once you start to treat with the gentian violet.

Originally Posted by beatgenxer

So one thing after another, after another...It gets easier, right?

It will get better - all things considered you are doing amazingly!