Why are you organic?

[kriket]

I doubt the validity of the current market word 'organic'. I would love to see the research others have done on the subject! If anyone has any papers or links I would like to read them! I'm not horribly interested in people just saying that they eat organic foods to keep pesticide exposure down, etc. You can say anything, like I stay inside to keep the government from reading my mind. I need the facts people!

To me eating locally is waaaay more important then 'organic'. Also, eating within our budget.

I'm just curious why organic is so very important to some. I've heard some pretty nasty things said about people who don't care about organic, so lets keep it nice.

[Karamom]

[sunnysandiegan]

I am a bit unconvinced myself. Mostly, though, due to the marketing hype surrounding the term "organic". IMO, that word is inappropriate to be using since it basically means relating to living matter, biotic, etc (and other such terms). The opposite of organic is inorganic. Hmmm.... conventionally grown tomatoes are just as organic as the "organic" tomatoes. KWIM????

I am also opposed to the high costs for farmers et al to become "certified organic". That process and stamp of approval add to the cost unnecessarily, IMO. I am of the opinion that farmers using pesticides should have to go through a bunch of "hoops" in order to have the right to sell their crops. Then, we get into the government's involvement in subsidies and who is in cahoots with whom in the lobbying biz, etc...

Pretty much all my "issues" with "organic" are centered around the politics and semantics.

I am very much in favor of eating foods grown/raised without pesticides. The main reasons are because they taste better and have higher nutritional value and because I don't want all that other "stuff" in my body. I am also concerned about sustainability. Soil nutrients are being depleted faster than they can be renewed through conventional farming (crops) whereas organic farming practices enhance the soil and nutrition value. Then, there is all the icky stuff going on with most of the animals raised for meat and milk and eggs. Feeding animals as cheaply as possible and growing them as big as possible is not increasing their health nor ours. It is growing the companies' profits (not farmers, but all the companies between them and us). I have a lot more thoughts on this subject, too, but I'll stop with the personal litany.

If you want facts, here is a list of books you can read and movies you can watch about our current food system:

BOOKS:
Real Food: What to Eat and Why by Nina Planck
Fatland: How Americans Became the Fattest People in the World by Greg Critser
Animal, Vegetable, Miracle: A Year of Food Life by Barbara Kingsolver
Stuffed and Starved: The Hidden Battle for the World Food System by Raj Patel
The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan
In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto by Michael Pollan
Eat here: reclaiming homegrown pleasures in a global supermarket by Brian Halweil

MOVIES:
Good Food
Food, Inc.
The Real Dirt on Farmer John
Fresh

All the movies, except Fresh, are available on Netflix. I found most of the books in our public library system. I haven't read every single book, yet. (I am reading them in that order and am three quarters finished with Stuffed and Starved, which is the most comprehensive so far.)

I definitely agree local is important, as is eating within your budget. It is all about making informed decisions, IMO.

[Pinky Tuscadero]

I'm really not being snarky but I honestly can't imagine spending my time explaining my reasoning to you when you start out with "I totally think organic is a crock". Not a very welcoming tone if you are truly looking for info.
Good luck.

[LauraLoo]

Pesticides Exposure Linked to Suicidal Thoughts - ScienceDaily
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1022101540.htm

Parkinson's Disease Associated With Pesticide Exposure In French Farm Workers
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0604124802.htm

Link Between Pesticides And Parkinson's Strengthened With Family Study
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0328070136.htm

Common Household Pesticides Linked To Childhood Cancer Cases In Washington Area
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0728102306.htm

Organic Diets Lower Children's Exposure To Two Common Pesticides
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0221090538.htm

Month Of Conception Linked To Birth Defects In United States
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0330130235.htm
A study published in the April 2009 issue of the medical journal Acta Pædiatrica is the first to report that birth defect rates in the United States were highest for women conceiving in the spring and summer. The researchers also found that this period of increase risk correlated with increased levels of pesticides in surface water across the United States.

[katiesk]

Pretty much all my "issues" with "organic" are centered around the politics and semantics.

this.

i feel like there are ethical and sustainability aspects to it as well - which is also why i buy locally when possible.

i think that what the organic "label" is becoming is completely defeating the purpose of the original organic "movement"

i'm not posting links or anything...but i do think that my opinions are valid, nonetheless!!

[RomanCarmelMom]

Read past articles by Mother Earth News. Everything is backed by science, and they lay out the issues wonderfully.

I have many life-threatening health problems. I can't help but think that it must be easier for a perfectly healthy person to think it's fine to consume chemicals, but I seem to be hyper sensitive to them. My health problems have gotten better since I've gone organic.

[MyLilPwny]

Pesticides kill. Humans are not supposed to eat toxic chemicals that kill. Pesticides cause disease. Pesticides are found in tumors. Pesticides are not part of the natural human diet. Most pesticides don't have any studies on them that determine the safety in humans, and no long-term studies. Irradiated food it toxic and disease-causing too.

[Cristiaz]

How can organic foods be a crock? Either you eat pesticides or not...its simple. If pesticides can kill bugs, what do you think it does to you? We are larger so it won't kill us immediately but the pesticides will store in your liver, run through you blood and attach onto your cells.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Cristiaz

How can organic foods be a crock? Either you eat pesticides or not...its simple.

ah, but is it? like PPs mentioned there is a world of difference between "organic" and grown without pesticides. I tend to agree with these posters. Just because something has the stamp do I trust it? I will agree my issues are also around politics and semantics. Also, whatever the word is for when you get a mob of people enthralled in an idea... a fad, trendy, something like that.

I mostly don't pay attention to organic because I buy local (or grow it myself) I was in my friendly neighbor hood market a year or so back and a woman asked if the eggs were organic. The farmer said, "well, no, we aren't certified but the chicken are free range, and we don't use pesticides on the farm" she put them back and said "I only buy organic" What??! You had to kick the chickens out of your way to get to the door? What more do you want?

Also, I just can't imagine spending that much money! Am I missing where are the 'organic' foods are a reasonable price? They only thing I have found is because no one really buys the expensive organic stuff in my little grocery, it gets marked on manager special. Then it's old and brown and still the same cost as the regular stuff.

I won't even start on organic junk food. That's a whole other topic.

sunnysandiegan: I'm going to see if I can netflix those movies! I'm a huge foodie, and LOVE things on why/what/how we eat. I even liked Super Size Me only for the segment about public school lunches!

[Ldavis24]

I'm sorry but conventionally grown tomatos are not "organic". One word can have multiple meanings and from a classification stand point yes there is organic matter, and inorganic matter but from a food stand point there is a huge difference.

Not only do I not want to eat the pesticides that are liberally doused on nearly everything these days or eat meat from anything resembling a factory farm. I am also aware of the fact that those same pesticides find their way into our soil and ALWAYS ultimately into the ocean. From there they touch everything. So when I think of why I eat organic those are a couple of reason that come to mind. Organic farming also is generally more sustainable than conventional farming and it often goes hand in hand with local farming. I try to support both organic and local farms.

You can get mad about the politics of it all you want but does that mean you are willing to let your family eat countless chemicals because of your objection to how the term is being tossed around these days? I know it is popular to eat organic these days but is that really a bad thing? Although I too do not buy into the organic junk food, just because it is organic does not mean it is nutritious if it is cookies. DH and I have instituted a policy where if we want a snack we have to make it ourselves, work for it kwim?

I have gotten most of my information from books so I don't feel like quoting them individually but there are so many good books out there on the subject!

To the OP I could just have easily said I think people who think that organic stuff is a load of crock have no idea what they are talking about. You admittedly don't know anything about it but you make a pretty big judgement for being so uneducated. It would help if you wanted to keep it nice to start nice!

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

You admittedly don't know anything about it but you make a pretty big judgement for being so uneducated.

I never said I didn't know anything about organic. I have a degree in Restaurant management and am a certified chef. I know more about our food chain then most. I said I didn't buy the idea.

Why are we so heated about food? I mean, I have passion for the feast, but I didn't think this was mommy battle territory.

[GardenStream]

This is a little OT, but did anyone see the interview of Michael Pollan in Organic Gardening this month?

I thought his comments about there being some horrible organic factory farms that he has visited were very interesting. I really wish he had given some names of the ones which are "inhumane" as he called them.

My best answer to the OP question is that I'm not organic. I have my BS in toxicology, but I don't think that has much to do with my answer either. I think it's better to eat organic, but it's not something I'm willing to make significant sacrafices for. I do my best to feed my family organic foods within my budget. I grew over 700 pounds of produce in my garden this year and it was completely organic. I buy beef from a local farm, but it's not certified organic and I'm OK with that. We do our best to buy food from local, sustainable, and organic farms. I rarely get all 3, but I do my best within my budget which isn't much most of the time. I would much rather buy from the local farms which grow organically and aren't certified than buy food in Wal-Mart that's certified organic.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by atobols

This is a little OT, but did anyone see the interview of Michael Pollan in Organic Gardening this month?

no, is there an online copy?

[GardenStream]

Originally Posted by kriket

no, is there an online copy?

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything. You can see bits and pieces of it here. There is a much more in depth article by Pollan here but I didn't see where he specifically mentioned the feedlot style/inhumane condition of animals on organic factory farms. I still want more details about that.

[Ldavis24]

Originally Posted by kriket

I never said I didn't know anything about organic. I have a degree in Restaurant management and am a certified chef. I know more about our food chain then most. I said I didn't buy the idea.

Why are we so heated about food? I mean, I have passion for the feast, but I didn't think this was mommy battle territory.

I see you changed it from it is a crock to you doubt, which I appreciate. I also apologize because you certainly did not say you don't know anything about it. Although I studied 2 years at college under restaurant management and I am curious how you see that as qualifying in the understanding of organic farming practices etc. Also being a chef? Certified? My mother was a chef for the majority of my childhood and I have carried on that tradition although I haven't cooked professionally in a few years, definitely a passion to cook but can't stand the business aspect of it! So few restaurants use organic anything that it is hard to learn about it that route. As I am sure you know the biggest supporters of factory farming of animals and produce are the big restaurant chains in this country!

I got heated because this is the choice I make for myself and my family. We keep in mind the greater understanding how large scale farming especially, involves so many chemicals and practices that we dislike we just choose not to participate in that. We can afford it most of the time and so we do it. If someone calls it a crock I take it somewhat personally because it basically states everything I have researched and decided is BS, kwim?

Sorry for the p-od attitude. I guess organics have gotten a bad name around here for some reason. My general reasons I stated before! Sorry for it becoming a mommy battle. I definitely agree that local is very important, but I try to go for local and organic at the same time. If I had to choose I would probably pick organic over local but I certainly don't need the organic stamp to purchase something I know to be grown well and in good care (animal or plant)!

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

I definitely agree that local is very important, but I try to go for local and organic at the same time. If I had to choose I would probably pick organic over local but I certainly don't need the organic stamp to purchase something I know to be grown well and in good care (animal or plant)!

Actually, quite a bit of what we buy locally is "organic," or beyond organic using best practices, a la Pollan, but not certified.

It always pains me to buy organic fresh strawberries in a store, but so many of our local sources still use pesticides, and the ones that don't charge an arm and a leg for a quart - beyond what I can reasonably pay. I'm still researching other local options - hopefully next summer I'll be able to get these locally as well.

The bottom line is that I try my best to avoid pesticides and chemicals. When I have to make choices, I remember the "dirty dozen" list and make sure that those at least are pesticide free.
http://www.thedailygreen.com/healthy...ty-Dozen-Foods

I always try to visit the local farms that I buy from, just to double check that things are what they are claimed to be - especially when it comes to meats and poultry.

[ursusarctos]

I always buy organic meat, milk and eggs due to the biological magnification of pesticides, etc. I buy organic produce if it's not exorbitantly priced, looks fresh, and is relatively local. If there's a good-looking, seasonal, fresh, local alternative that is not certified organic, I will definitely go with that. As pps have pointed out, becoming certified organic involves jumping through hoops and so many smaller farmers may be practically organic but just don't have the sticker.

Originally Posted by katiesk

i think that what the organic "label" is becoming is completely defeating the purpose of the original organic "movement"

Yes. Much more so in the U.S. I think though. In Europe organic is still less popular and therefore the demand is smaller and so organic farming hasn't become as industrialized here yet to my knowledge. When I visit the states I do not automatically trust organic - will definitely go for local, small-farmer products if I can get it.

Originally Posted by ThereseReich

Pesticides kill. Humans are not supposed to eat toxic chemicals that kill. Pesticides cause disease. Pesticides are found in tumors. Pesticides are not part of the natural human diet. Most pesticides don't have any studies on them that determine the safety in humans, and no long-term studies.

THIS!!!

Originally Posted by kriket

I won't even start on organic junk food. That's a whole other topic.

Oh yes I grew up eating the organic version of cheetos, cookies, etc. Granted, they contained less preservatives and artificial flavorings. Still not healthy though and cost more, not to mention being heavy on packaging. Now I've changed my diet/way of life completely and don't even eat "snack foods" anymore.

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

I am also aware of the fact that those same pesticides find their way into our soil and ALWAYS ultimately into the ocean. From there they touch everything.

Yes, this too. Particularly where I live (Finland) the sea (Baltic) is threatened. Not by post-Soviet countries dumping toxic waste into the water as everyone likes to think, but by the fully westernized, developed countries of Sweden and Finland dumping pesticides and chemical fertilizers on their crops. The chemicals run off into the sea and are seriously damaging everything that lives in it.

The original and excellent book talking about the far-reaching effects of pesticides on the environment is Rachel Carson's Silent Spring. It is highly readable, informative and fascinating. I highly recommend it.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

Although I studied 2 years at college under restaurant management and I am curious how you see that as qualifying in the understanding of organic farming practices etc. Also being a chef? Certified?

We had a whole section of sustainability practices. Being direct with the farmers it trendy right now, and there is greater interest in organic and humane farm practices. To be marketable to the workforce we took seminars. I've actually had an opposite experence cooking professionally. I've worked in much smaller places, but buying local was VERY important to our clients so it's what we did (and I was glad to do). Organic was also important to them, and we would buy things that were certified and charge insane prices (I didn't have say in this part of the business) This is what makes me think that it's more of a gimmic then anything. We would also do things like offer organic avocado wraps, the only think on that sandwich was the avocado. The whole business of what you could call organic and what you couldn't seems shady to me.

And technically I am a certified culinarian CC and certified sous chef CSC I was illustrating that I was educated on the topic.

Originally Posted by Ldavis24

If I had to choose I would probably pick organic over local but I certainly don't need the organic stamp to purchase something I know to be grown well and in good care (animal or plant)!

I agree, but I would pick local first.

[sunnysandiegan]

Originally Posted by kriket

sunnysandiegan: I'm going to see if I can netflix those movies! I'm a huge foodie, and LOVE things on why/what/how we eat. I even liked Super Size Me only for the segment about public school lunches!

I'll add Super Size Me to my list. Thanks!

Be prepared, if you watch The Real Dirt on Farmer John, that it is an autobiography of his life. While he is a fascinating person, I was expecting a documentary about food. I would have enjoyed the whole move more if I had been aware it was an autobiography from his childhood through current day (roughly 50 years) upfront. If you find yourself getting a bit antsy, like DH & I did, I'll tell you in advance that it does get around to the topic of food....roughly the last 30-45 minutes....and it was worth watching.

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Thanks, also, to the mama who recommended Silent Spring. I had forgotten about that book and want to read it.

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I haven't gotten to the Michael Pollan books, but I am going to check out those links, too. Thanks mama!