Tired of the Vax Religion

[BeckyBird]

I just wanted to vent a little. I feel like the whole vaccine debate is a religion. There are basically 2 beliefs--either you think vaccines are wonderful, or you believe they cause harm.

The mainstream medical establishment will have you believe that vaccines are good.

But, there is a whole organization of brilliant scientists and doctors who believe that vaccines cause harm, and are not very effective.

So why, in the Land of the Free, are we being persecuted for believing the 2nd group of people? Are we not free to chose what goes into our own bodies? Our children's bodies? We are the minority, and we are being bullied by the whole country into following the pro-vax movement!! It's not like the group of non-vax believers are a bunch of crazy lunatics. These are highly intelligent people with Proof!! And I chose to believe them. I do NOT believe the group who is funded by Big Pharma--the doctors who are on their "payroll", and the companies who are making billions on unsuspecting people.

In America, we supposedly have freedom. But with this subject of medical treatment, it just seems like there is a whole belief system. It is like a religion, and it is getting harder and harder to stand up for your beliefs, if you are against the mainstream medical dogma.

Thanks for the vent, I feel better! I have a baby on the way, and I'm preparing to fight the fight, you know?

[MyLilPwny]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird

There are basically 2 beliefs--either you think vaccines are wonderful, or you believe they cause harm.

Absolutely. Either vaccines are the holy grail that saved all of humanity from catching a bunch of contagious infectious diseases that would have killed everyone; or, vaccines are toxic poison killers that weaken and poison everyone who gets them, especially damaging future generations, making them sick, unhealthy, and causing degeneration. Only one side is right. Both sides can't be right.

Originally Posted by BeckyBird

I do NOT believe the group who is funded by Big Pharma--the doctors who are on their "payroll", and the companies who are making billions on unsuspecting people.

Yeah, I think its this. Money bought and paid for a bunch of lies behind vaccines and money continues to do so. Vaccines are not sold for the health of the public.

[Karamom]

I agree

[peainthepod]

As with many other unconventional choices I make for my family, I find that the more confident I am in my decisions and the less shame or fear or uncertainty I project, the less likely I am to be hostilely confronted about it.

I'm very secure in my decision to avoid vaccines and when it comes up in certain company, I say it without apology or explanation. Even rabidly pro-vaccine people are easily intimidated by a confident tone and careless shrug. It's none of their business but I genuinely couldn't care less whether they think I'm a crackpot for not vaccinating. I've mastered a few subject-changing lines to use on people I care about, but once or twice I've simply walked away from someone while they were mid-sentence. They can't take a polite hint and I don't care to hear their ill-mannered tirades, so I remove myself from the conversation. Maybe they think I'm crazy or rude or a bad mother. So what?

I used to be sick of the bullying too until I decided that I really, truly, 100% don't give a damn what other people think. Whatever issues they might have with non-vaxers, they're not getting the opportunity to try to work them out on me. I have better things to do than tolerate ignorant self-righteousness and groupthink bullying--and I bet you do too.

Walk tall, mama. You're doing what you know is best for your family, and that's all any of us can do.

[hippy mum]

There are not enough drs, researchers, scientists etc to make a stand against vaccines. If there were, then we wouldn't be "crazy", it would be a valid belief in the eyes of the world. It would be nice to some day see a substantial amount of those people taking a stand, but I prob won't be alive to see it.

[Love_My_Bubba]

I have been on both sides of this argument at different times. I'll spare you the story of my vaccination education, it's not important to my post. I'd like to ask your opinions of the H1N1 vax and share a story.

While I believe that every parent should do their research and make their own decisions without persecution the story I'm about to share absolutely scared me to death. My DS seems to get most illnesses that go around his school, he'll be 4 in February and I do not have the option of not working as my income pays our mortgage.

He contracted a cyto-megalo virus in April 2008, other children in his class had it as well but he ended up in Childrens Hospital with a 105 degree fever and was subjected to a spinal tap and urine culture, all at the age of 2. It was absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, the worst day of my life. I have since given my choices another look. That paired with the story below have made me waver in my decision when it comes to H1N1.

A 12 year old girl from a town about 6 miles from us first showed signs of illness on a Friday and by Monday she was dead, they confirmed on Thursday that she had H1N1. http://www.projo.com/health/content/...6.3cf51cd.html

I'm not here to tell people that they should vaccinate, I still do not get routine vax for my DS but you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll thoroughly research this before the H1N1 vax becomes available in my state. It's just a scary situation and I feel that I owe it to my DS. What are your views on this?

TIA,
Julie

[MountainMamaGC]

When the news reports "healthy" people dying, I really dont pay attention because I have a very different definition of what healthy really is. For all i know the child lived with smokers, and ate McDonalds and candy everyday. The CDC would consider the child healthy, I however do not.

My friend, who knows I dont vax told me that she vaxed her whole family and I feel sick to my stomach. The vaxes here contain squalene and thimersol and her baby will require a booster. I feel so sick about it. I wish she kept it to herself.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Originally Posted by Love_My_Bubba

What are your views on this?

It says right in the third paragraph, "Swine flu is typically a mild illness but can be fatal in rare cases.". So its just as deadly as measles, mumps, or chicken pox? No vax, thank you.

Unless we lived in that house with that girl, we don't know how "sudden" her turn for the worse was. KWIM? Did she have asthma, which therefore made her suseptable to Pneumonia ? We don't know. To many variables to consider that she just up and dropped dead after seeming fine just twelve hours earlier.

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by Lydiah

When the news reports "healthy" people dying, I really dont pay attention because I have a very different definition of what healthy really is. For all i know the child lived with smokers, and ate McDonalds and candy everyday. The CDC would consider the child healthy, I however do not.

This too.

[caro113]

Originally Posted by Lydiah

When the news reports "healthy" people dying, I really dont pay attention because I have a very different definition of what healthy really is. For all i know the child lived with smokers, and ate McDonalds and candy everyday. The CDC would consider the child healthy, I however do not.

Exactly. During the "scare" last year, the front page of our local paper said "Resident dies from swine flu". She lived only 10 or 15 miles from us. It wasn't until the very end of the article - you know, the last paragraph that is supposed to contain the least viable information in case they need to cut it short for space - finally said that she had underlying health issues and was in the hospital all the time for the regular seasonal flu. But the headlines don't tell you that and most people don't read the whole article.

But back to the OP. Ya know, it's not just the vax debate. The circ debate is exactly the same, with two black and white sides and no gray area. While I do believe that vaccines are dangerous and possibly killing off the human race (the world population already suffered when we earned the immunity these vaccines are destroying) I also understand that not everyone believes that. But unlike most of the non-believers (ie the mainstreamers) I respect their decision and don't push mine on them.

And that's the only way it's like a religion. They try and bully others into believing what they believe, using scare tactics and fear. Cigarette ads are illegal. Formula ads - supposedly - have very strict guidelines. I've only ever seen one breastfeeding ad. But vaccines ads are okay? Where is the logic in that? And they use outright lies, like the one school in Texas (I think. A mom posted on here a little while ago.) that had a big sign saying "No shots. No school. No kidding." Complete out right lie. That's like saying formula is just as good as breast milk - oh wait, plenty of people say that on TV - or saying babies don't feel pain when being circumcised - oh wait, they say that, too, even though they also say abortion after the first trimester is wrong because the baby can feel that.

Ugh.

[Juvysen]

IMO, the unfortunate lack of decent research on the vast majority of vaccines REQUIRES it to be more based on faith, than not, thus rendering the decision making process like that of a religion.

Personally, I believe the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle (as it seems to with many things), but without the un-biased research and with so much money attached to the entire question, I have trouble trusting any of the pro-vax dogma.

[LianneM]

You might be interested in reading the late Dr. Mendelsohn's book Confessions of a Medical Heretic.

[amnesiac]

I have removed several posts & responses which are not consistent with the guidelines for this subforum. Please remember that we will not permit posting in this subforum which criticizes or denigrates those who choose to vaccinate. This is also not the appropriate place to argue against vaccination, as these discussions are hosted in our main vax forum. Please PM any questions or concerns.

[angie7]

Originally Posted by Lydiah

When the news reports "healthy" people dying, I really dont pay attention because I have a very different definition of what healthy really is. For all i know the child lived with smokers, and ate McDonalds and candy everyday. The CDC would consider the child healthy, I however do not.

You are absolutely correct on this one!

OP: it is frustrating. While I don't care what other people think, I am still baffled at the # of people that believe the media hype. I was called stupid, ignorant and that I had a warped opinion b/c I said H1N1 was not pandemic No one will ever change my mind, not vaxing my girls is the best decision I could have made for them. But I can definately see that decision causing problems down the road. Who would want to hang out with a kid that is not vaxed, doesn't do santa and has Atheists as parents??

[SuburbanHippie]

It is totally like a religion. I read the OP to my DH and he said "Totally!" It kills me that people blindly follow their doctors. Doctor does not equal God. How can you believe what they say when their "bible" (the word of the CDC, FDA, AAP, among others) rewrite their official stance every 5 years? Not to mention their deep pockets full of money from big corporations & pharma. It's so frustrating.

[BeckyBird]

Thanks everybody!
And thanks to the person who recommended a book to me, "Confessions of a Medical Heretic", by Dr.Mendelsohn. I will definitely get it!

[Thisbirdwillfly]

Love My Bubba, A young girl we know died recently from H1N1. She was very healthy, as are her parents, in terms of physical health, household, etc. Her autopsy confirmed this as well.

That is another way that the vax debate reminds of religion. No one wants to give an inch, which is unfortunate.

We have not made a decision on the H1N1 vaccine yet. None of us are in a high risk group and so the vaccine is not available to us at this time.

I wish you luck in making your decision.

[handspun]

My personal feeling is that whenever anything becomes dogma, it is suspect. And I think that both pro and anti vax arguments tend to fall into the trap of being very dogmatic.

The decisions that my dh and I have made regarding vaccines for our kids are the best decisions we can make for our particular family at this particular time.

I know that this might not be a popular view here, but I am flexible enough in my thinking to know that people who make different decisions aren't necessarily wrong, and that our family may make different decisions in different times or situations.