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November '09 - H1N1/swine flu discussion - Page 6

post #101 of 555
Neg reactions to the vaccine? Last week there was a report (linked to on the Oct thread) of 4 deaths from the vax in one small European country alone. Small reactions: an acquaintance had all three children in her family get the H1N1 vax and within 2-3 days, they all came down with the flu. (And I think they had the shot, not the live flumist)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewMa View Post
The kids are being given the h1n1 shot in one arm and the seasonal flu shot in the other arm, at the same time.
Interesting. Do the kids in your area have special anatomy where the left arm is not connected to the same circulatory system as the right arm? What on earth do they think they're doing - that somehow the two shots aren't going to be in exactly the same place within 30 seconds? I cannot imagine what they think they're accomplishing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carfreemama View Post
So now that we know a lot of these people died of staph aureus, is there any way to treat it?
Well, I haven't looked up s. aureus lately (but I encourage you to, if it's causing you worry, and don't forget to report back what you find!), but I don't think it's some fearsome infection that can't be treated by normal means. Of course, by normal means, I mean, megadosing vitamin C (sodium ascorbate powder + bioflavonoids) & "the garlic treatment" (garlic is naturally antiviral, as is coconut oil. I mince 4 cloves raw into a glass of tomato juice and it is VERY powerful for knocking out respiratory infections), along with rest, vitamin D (via sunshine and fermented cod liver oil), and learning what the signs are of the very unlikely progression of the illness beyond my own ability to treat.

A quick look: wikipedia says s. aureus is the most common staph infection around, and 20% of the population is carrying it all the time (and, presumably, not dead). Methicillin-resistant s. aureaus, now that's bad. See below.


IOW, she died from hospitalization, not H1N1. She was hospitalized, then got a life-threatening MRSA infection from the hospital. This is NOT a swine flu death any more than someone who dies from MRSA after having a compound fracture set dies from the broken arm. It's a hospital-induced death.


Quote:
We are non vaxers. Do you all also think things will get worse ? Do you think it will mutate?
I'm perplexed when I hear nonvaxers say things like this. We don't avoid vaccines just b/c the diseases they attempt to prevent are benign. We avoid them for many reasons, but the most prominent are typically that they are ineffective, falsely declared effective, causing more problems (population-wide) than resolving, and/or affect our entire immune systems in a way that impacts lifelong health negatively. A sudden flare-up of even, say, polio, would not affect my decision in this regard, although polio is a great parallel of a disease that was almost a non-issue by time the vaccine was available, rarely serious at any point, grossly overreported in its heyday, & grossly underreported after the vaccine came out.

Being a "non-vaxer," rather than a "case-by-case vaxer," typically means you have evaluated the very premise behind vaccinating and found it flawed. It's still flawed, no matter what diseases we may face, new or old, real or hyped.

JMO, FWIW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenelle View Post
Am I understanding this correctly? Are we already on the decline of this thing?
That's what the mainstream media has been saying for a few weeks. The South, which seems to have been hit harder than other American regions, is very much on the downside of whatever peak there may have been.

That's where I am, and everyone was declaring everything to be Swine Flu, from serious hardcore flu they had back in July to definitely-flu-symptoms-but-much-milder-than-usual stuff. Any other year, without media around, all of this would have just been "something going around," but this year, it's panic.
post #102 of 555
[/QUOTE]That's where I am, and everyone was declaring everything to be Swine Flu, from serious hardcore flu they had back in July to definitely-flu-symptoms-but-much-milder-than-usual stuff. Any other year, without media around, all of this would have just been "something going around," but this year, it's panic. [/QUOTE]

This is what I am seeing locally. Everything from a cold to flu is "swine flu" even though the Dr.'s offices are no longer testing for H1N1.
post #103 of 555
Quote:
However, health experts have said the vast majority of flu cases right now are H1N1.
Well, yabba dabba doo, who cares what they say, lol, b/c the CDC's very own data says that only about 2% of what's being assumed to be H1N1 is actually H1N1, and most of it isn't flu at all!

I don't see any reason not to believe that the MRSA that got to a fatal point at home wasn't from the time spent in the hospital. Seems the most reasonable explanation, unless another family member was recently hospitalized or she's been at the gym with open wounds lately.
post #104 of 555
FWIW - My 15 month old was very sick over the weekend. Her temp hit 106 and she was truly miserable. While I'm very not one to call the dr. my dh was worried so he called Sunday night. The ped (who is a holistic doc) said right away "sounds like she has the swine flu to me". I was really surpised that he would say that considering she truly didn't have the symptoms of the swine at all. Anyway, I reluctantly took her in Monday to be swabbed b/c I'm 8 months pregnant and my husband watches too much mainstream news, LOL, and she didn't have swine, regular flu, or strep. This morning she woke up with no fever and a rash. Yes, roseola, which is what I thought in the first place, tyvm. I'm wondering how many "she/he has the swine" diagnosis are being made in passing when it clearly is NOT the swine. That said, my 7 older kids all had the swine in April and were just fine. I was 6 wks pregnant then and didn't get so much as a sniffle nor did my husband.
post #105 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakah View Post
I know a woman who's 4 month old caught it. the baby is exclusively breastfed and worked through the illness just fine. Our ND told me to tell her to take winterberry, vitamin c and vitamin d so that it would pass through her breastmilk. He also said that the baby can directly take elderberry (call a naturopath for the correct dose) while sick with the flu. I'm pretty sure she just nursed her little one through it though.
Thanks for sharing this story. DD's pediatrician told me she doesn't think te vaccine is safe, refuses to give it to her two daugthers and recommended increasing DD's usual 400 I.U. dose of Vitamin D to 800-1,000. She says making sure she eats well, takes her Vitamin D and other recommened supplements will help ward off the flu and other colds and if she does get it she'll be fine.
post #106 of 555
I have no clue to the writers credibility. But its a good read.
http://peaceofmind.me/do-not-take-th...e-flu-vaccine/
post #107 of 555
Subbing...

I work in residence life at a univeristy and it's crazy how much fearmongering and hype there has been about H1N1..

they're having a free H1N1 vax clinic tomorrow for all students the worst part is that there's a competition for which hall can get the most % vaxed...there's a 1st, 2 nd, and 3rd place prize i feel like students who might have had concerns or were on the fence will get talked ito it for their hall.

i'm technically supposed to encourage my students to get the vax...i took down the vax posters in my building...i was seriously considering putting an anti-vax poster up in my building, but I decided not to. two of my coworkers are pg and are getting it...it just makes me sad for what might happen to their babies...i've shared some articles with one of them but her midwife and her daughter's ped both scared her into getting it, saying that pg women have a 15x greater chance of dying or something

the propaganda surrounding this vax just makes me wanna scream
post #108 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Ugh! I keep forgetting that I have to post HERE.

Did anybody catch Jay Gordon on Larry King last night?
I didn't catch it but wished I had- lots of good info and reassuring words.
Thanks for posting it!
post #109 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbailey View Post
Thanks for sharing this story. DD's pediatrician told me she doesn't think te vaccine is safe, refuses to give it to her two daugthers and recommended increasing DD's usual 400 I.U. dose of Vitamin D to 800-1,000. She says making sure she eats well, takes her Vitamin D and other recommened supplements will help ward off the flu and other colds and if she does get it she'll be fine.
That's awesome! Congrats on the cool Pedi!
post #110 of 555
Thread Starter 
Please remember that if you wish to discuss news/current events, posts need to remain focused on the general vax topic & not about any specific individual. Several of these posts & their responses have already been removed.
post #111 of 555
I've read the Australian data before, and that does help calm me a little. I don't remember where I've read about asthma being a concern, but maybe I just read about H1N1 supposedly being so rough on respiratory systems and jumped to my own conclusions? I am embarrassed to admit that I'm borderline morbidly obese, so my eyes tend to jump to that and make me freak out all over again. Also, DS and I have both been sick about three times already in the last two months, which is about the same as all of last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 13Sandals View Post
would it help to read a summary from a country that just ended their flu season? I'm not trying to sway you with this - just, if I were in your situation, I would read everything I could until I felt clear enough to make a decision - I'd want whatever REAL statistics I could get my hands on, and frankly, with the way the news is, I just don't trust what we are seeing on a daily basis.

http://www.healthemergency.gov.au/internet/healthemergency/publishing.nsf/Content/18D06BAC4644C98DCA25763E00823442/$File/ozflu-no23-2009.pdf

this is long and summarizes the whole season, in one place it says:
asthma isn't mentioned. which I found odd since I thought it was generally an increased risk group with any respiratory illness..

like the US, the distribution in Australia of hospitalization/death was very uneven. If I were in your situation, I would take a look at this and see if geographically speaking, you are in a terribly hard hit area.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

i'm strictly anti-vax, but if my kids were in a risk group or I was, I'd be worried. I'm a worrier, I can't help it, but I'd read until I realized the threat is manageable without a poorly tested vaccine.

Thank you for taking the time to spell out how you came to your decision. DS to date has never received any vaxes, but I've always told myself I would try to rationally examine the pros and cons of each vax and disease that came along before making a decision either way. Right now, I'm leaning toward no for him and yes for me, since I just feel like I'm in a higher risk category. I also don't like that there is no safety data for children for the vax, so I'm much more hesitant to commit for him to receive it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carfreemama View Post
My knee-jerk reaction would be yes, I would get the vaccine. But we are selective vax'ers (although never flu and very, very few vaccines), not no vax'ers. We will be getting the shot for similar reasons. Dh has psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis and is on immune-suppressing drugs (which he has scaled way back on). We also both work for the hospital and though I work mostly from home, dh has his hands on every high-touch surface and is in every corner of the hospital. And dd is in public school. So for us, this is the right decision. But we've been weighing it for months and we see pros and cons either way.
And OT, but to me for finally figuring out how to multi-quote
post #112 of 555
If you haven't seen this already...take a look, it's worth it.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-Pandemic.aspx
post #113 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post
Ugh! I keep forgetting that I have to post HERE.

Did anybody catch Jay Gordon on Larry King last night?
missed it, but appreciate the link... was able to read the transcript. The thing that stood out for me was the fact the child was never allowed to develop a fever

Quote:
GUPTA: ...Did she have a fever and then that fever went away and then it came back? What happened exactly?

B. DAVIS: She did. The night before, Saturday night, we attended a birthday party. Around 3:00, she started running a very low grade fever. I was able to give her Tylenol and the fever subsided. About 2:00 in the morning, the fever came back. I gave her some Tylenol. It went away again.

Woke up around 7:00 and she had the fever and I couldn't -- I really couldn't break it. By 5:00 in the evening, her fever was 105.
Dr Mendelsohn said the fever should be considered a blessing, not a curse. I highly recommend his timeless classic How to Raise a Healthy Child for any parent who has not yet read it.

In addition, here are a few links for further reading:

http://www.*********/a/west8.html

http://www.*********/drugs/paracetamol1.html


Let's also keep in mind that tylenol dampens the immune response after vaxing, so it is not a stretch to imagine it may do the same when presented with a wild infection as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFl...ory?id=8840239

Let's save the tylenol for when the child has gone too many hours or days without sleep, and/or it is desperately needed for other reasons of relief - not for the mere sake of lowering fever! In cases like this, I often wonder what would have happened had the child been allowed to experience a fever??
post #114 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenelle View Post
From Dr. Mercola's site:

"In the same Oct, 8th issue of the New England Journal of Medicine they reported on the American experience with the H1N1 variant virus.5 The study looked at data from 24 states with widespread influenza infection from April through June 2009. Remember, unlike most flu epidemics in the United States, this epidemic began early and by the end of September it was beginning to peak, with late October being the date it may begin to decline."

Am I understanding this correctly? Are we already on the decline of this thing?

Because here I am, agonizing over whether to get the vaccine for ds, IF it is even available... But I know that he wouldn't even be "fully" immune for like 5 weeks -- a week after the 2nd dose.

If this thing is already on the decline, then I will stop spending all my time checking this thread!

Correct, it supposed to have peaked last week in Oct (in U.S.A.) Also look at other countries in southern hemisphere which already went through entire winter - Australia for example- this years influenza was actually much MORE MILD than previous years! - much fewer deaths than usual.

The frightening thing to me is the public response to this and the gullibility of the american people (too dependent on media) - if this panic could happen over a flu LESS MILD than regular seasonal flu, what is going to happen if something truly serious comes along? Indeed, it wouldnt have to be very serious at all for there to be mass panic and misinformation, this year has proved that. I shudder to think of it, and if our panic results in more deaths than the illness, it will be our own fault.
post #115 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by newmum35 View Post
missed it, but appreciate the link... was able to read the transcript. The thing that stood out for me was the fact the child was never allowed to develop a fever



Dr Mendelsohn said the fever should be considered a blessing, not a curse. I highly recommend his timeless classic How to Raise a Healthy Child for any parent who has not yet read it.

In addition, here are a few links for further reading:

http://www.*********/a/west8.html

http://www.*********/drugs/paracetamol1.html


Let's also keep in mind that tylenol dampens the immune response after vaxing, so it is not a stretch to imagine it may do the same when presented with a wild infection as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFl...ory?id=8840239

Let's save the tylenol for when the child has gone too many hours or days without sleep, and/or it is desperately needed for other reasons of relief - not for the mere sake of lowering fever! In cases like this, I often wonder what would have happened had the child been allowed to experience a fever??
I was thinking the same thing when I was reading it.

That said... my friend's child had H1N1 (well, pos. influenza A) and he had a fever for a couple days, then it went away and he was fine for a day or two then got another fever... but he was fine...
post #116 of 555
I am sorry...but I can't read this whole thread and I am looking for information for my DH. He is very worried about this flu. His mother is pressuring him to get our children vaccinated. We live in Canada and have two children 2 years old and 5 years old. One is just getting over chicken pox, and the other is likely to get it....so vaccinating is totally out of the question right now...and will be in my opinion. Can anyone answer my questions...and post links if possible?

1. Is the children's vaccination free of thermisol?
2. Where can I find information on serious side effects from the vaccine?
3. Have any of the people hospitalized/ or deaths been VACCINATED people? This is an important one for me. I can't find out if any of the people that died had their vaccine.
4. Is there any prediction how long the flu will be around?
5. If the vaccine is effective shouldn't the cases of H1N1 decrease dramatically? Has this started to happen?
6. How much total immunity does the vaccine give? (I remember with the flu vaccine, my employer saying that it provides protection but you can still get the flu but it would be more mild than if you didn't get the vaccine...how on Earth do they know this?)
7. When is the seasonal flu supposed to hit?
8. If children need two shots three weeks apart and the vaccine takes three weeks to be effective....am I right to understand that they take 6 weeks to have immunity?

Thanks so much! I would love to research this...but I am having computer troubles and only have a little time on here before it shuts down...I will check back to see if anyone can answer my questions....thanks
post #117 of 555
is there a thread that has all the info for natural immune boosting flu prevention...i am not familliar with natural prevention.

i have started giving my 10 wk old ebf dd vit d (which i used to always forget...never gave to ds)

ds (almost 3) is now getting the same 400iu's

i am also giving ds omega 3 and multi vit gummi's from the health food store..

our diet has not been good lately....i am having a difficult time shaking these postpartum blues

i will go to the store and get some vit D, and C and multi vits for myself and dh

i am going to get some winterberry....gelsemium

D3?

just info i have gathered from this thread...

nervous about natural remedies too...if i don't know how to use them they can be dangerous too
post #118 of 555
I keep reading this, but I'm curious about why it is believed to peak in October. Why wouldn't it continue all winter? My understanding was that flu viruses thrive in the colder temperatures during winter, so I'm curious as to why this one is expected to be different? Not disputing, just asking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newmum35 View Post
Correct, it supposed to have peaked last week in Oct (in U.S.A.) Also look at other countries in southern hemisphere which already went through entire winter - Australia for example- this years influenza was actually much MORE MILD than previous years! - much fewer deaths than usual.

The frightening thing to me is the public response to this and the gullibility of the american people (too dependent on media) - if this panic could happen over a flu LESS MILD than regular seasonal flu, what is going to happen if something truly serious comes along? Indeed, it wouldnt have to be very serious at all for there to be mass panic and misinformation, this year has proved that. I shudder to think of it, and if our panic results in more deaths than the illness, it will be our own fault.
post #119 of 555
saoirse2007 - I think if you look in the health and healing forum there's a few threads about natural remedies for flu. There's also at least one in the pregnancy forum - geared toward those of us that are pregnant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2landon View Post
I keep reading this, but I'm curious about why it is believed to peak in October. Why wouldn't it continue all winter? My understanding was that flu viruses thrive in the colder temperatures during winter, so I'm curious as to why this one is expected to be different? Not disputing, just asking.
I expect it's because it'll have essentially run it's course. That is... much (most?) of the population will have been exposed and have antibodies... and for the same reason the vaccine works, the natural antibodies will make it so you don't get sick.

That's just a guess, though. It was circulating all summer, and has been rampant (supposedly) this fall, you know?
post #120 of 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovbeingamommy View Post
If you haven't seen this already...take a look, it's worth it.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-Pandemic.aspx
This is awesome! I love this part from Dr Mercola:
Pediatric Flu Deaths by Year Made WORSE by Flu Vaccine

* 1999 -- - 29 deaths
* 2000 -- - 19 deaths
* 2001 -- - 13 deaths
* 2002 -- - 12 deaths
* 2003 -- - 90 deaths (Year of mass vaccinations of children under age 5 years)
* 2006 -- 78 deaths
* 2007 -- - 88 deaths
* 2008 – 116 deaths (40.9% vaccinated at age 6 months to 23 months)11
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