November '09 - H1N1/swine flu discussion - Page 28

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by lovbeingamommy

Dr. Mercola is far from the only one supporting Vit. D. for a whole host of issues including H1N1. Some that I've seen recently Mayer Eisenstein MD. JD, Sherry Tenpenny MD, Dr. Andrew Weil (somewhat mainstream), U of A Integrative Medicine Dept. (more mainstream), Vitamin D Council - of course , and SNMC (accredited naturopathic medical college). More and more mainstream docs have been testing for Vit D levels recently according to Sonora Labs and Lab Corp where they do the testing...I checked.

Dr. Mercola has been talking about Vit D for many years now and only recently has it become somewhat mainstream. I know he does try to sell a lot of his own formulations, but, really who doesn't do this sort of thing lately?

You're right. It was just an example. I've found similar "whoa, seriously? he was right?" moments with other things, but just used that because it was the first one to come to mind.

[Jenelle]

Glad to see this:

http://www.google.org/flutrends/intl/en_us/us/

[nataliachick7]

Great article:

The Goal of Every H1N1 Swine Flu Vaccine:
Immunotoxicity, Neurotoxicity and Sterility

This lists all the ingredients as well, you can click on the links and read about them and their history.

http://preventdisease.com/news/09/10...toxicity.shtml

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Jenelle

Glad to see this:

http://www.google.org/flutrends/intl/en_us/us/

Now, the big question is, is that going to be publicized? That flu rates in the US seem to be down to the usual level for November (which is normally just starting to increase for their typical peak in Jan/Feb), except this looks like we're on the backside of this year's flu? Some people on the fence would make a different decision about vaccinating if they saw that graph. There's no guarantee there won't be a second peak, but that is not the usual pattern--this looks just like an intense flu season was moved three or four months earlier than usual.

[Jenelle]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Now, the big question is, is that going to be publicized? That flu rates in the US seem to be down to the usual level for November (which is normally just starting to increase for their typical peak in Jan/Feb), except this looks like we're on the backside of this year's flu? Some people on the fence would make a different decision about vaccinating if they saw that graph. There's no guarantee there won't be a second peak, but that is not the usual pattern--this looks just like an intense flu season was moved three or four months earlier than usual.

Exactly why I keep an eye on Google Flu Trends. No, it won't be publicized. What is being publicized here (where we have not been hit hard by H1N1) is radio commercials telling us to go get the shot.

Yes, it COULD have another wave -- but looking at previous years tells us that it usually doesn't. Or at least not going ALL the way back up like that again. Looking at that chart also tells us that flu seasons have been months off from each other before.

So, I personally look at that and think that this could be it. We could be on the tail-end of flu season. Already.

Interested in other's views.

[Deborah]

Looking at the graphs, I'm wondering if some of this is an artifact of intense attention to influenza and other sicknesses. The way you'll suddenly start seeing a lot of Saabs on the road after your best friend buys one. No real increase, just a different focus.

I think there has been more sickness going around this year, but it may not be as high as that graph makes it look. And we really don't know how much of whatever it was actually was H1N1 and how much was just bad colds (aka flu like illnesses).

[tanyalynn]

Deborah, I'm torn on that too. On the one hand, overall reported deaths are far lower than the 36,000 CDC cites in a typical flu season, but between the fuzziness of that number, and older, more medically fragile people _not_ getting as much flu this year, I can't tell how this is really playing out. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it's more serious than typical flu for any particular group of people, but whether it's less, I can't tell.

Anecdotally, this is the first year since my daughter was born (she just turned 6) that we've had an illness I would describe as flu-like. It was in September, when google flu trends showed the peak for Texas. My son gets sick more than most kids, and we've never had a cold/flu-like illness that we really had to slow down for a full week for before. But that's one family in a nation of almost 300 million.

One thing that makes me think that at least some of the increase is real is that the number of kids out of schools at one time seems higher--the school closures, I mean, and high absentee rates that districts are not thrilled with. Parents have incentives to keep their kids in school. It's hard to tell if high numbers of parents would keep kids home with fewer symptoms than usual because they're expecting flu instead of a cold, but employed (outside the home) parents can't be too cavalier with their vacation/sick time, especially so early in the school year.

[SoCaliMommy]

Interesting article

H1N1 Causes Miscarriage

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Deborah, I'm torn on that too. On the one hand, overall reported deaths are far lower than the 36,000 CDC cites in a typical flu season, but between the fuzziness of that number, and older, more medically fragile people _not_ getting as much flu this year, I can't tell how this is really playing out. I haven't seen anything that makes me think it's more serious than typical flu for any particular group of people, but whether it's less, I can't tell.

One thing that makes me think that at least some of the increase is real is that the number of kids out of schools at one time seems higher--the school closures, I mean, and high absentee rates that districts are not thrilled with. Parents have incentives to keep their kids in school. It's hard to tell if high numbers of parents would keep kids home with fewer symptoms than usual because they're expecting flu instead of a cold, but employed (outside the home) parents can't be too cavalier with their vacation/sick time, especially so early in the school year.

Yes, there was a wave of kids out of school in my area too. One child that I know of got seriously ill. It has been a big hassle for parents. There is certainly something fairly nasty going around, but whether it is flu or just a particularly grim sort of cold is hard to know, since they aren't really counting. And I think any parent who can keep their child home is doing so, and schools are pushing hard to keep sick children home, more so than usual.

We'll never know. One thing for sure is that the 36,000 per year number is definitely looking very sloppy, even this early in the season.

[Awaken]

Originally Posted by MommyDOK

ALso, do any of you get really nervous when you talk vax stuff w/ vaxers? I have a very good friend who agrees w/ me on almost everything in parenting, and she knows I don't vax, but we have never really talked about it. Anyways, tonight we talked about it---very calmly, but it makes me so nervous!! I almost wish we hadn't even talked about it. Not vaxing is one of those things that our family came to a decision on, after much research, and it is kind of hard to put all that research into a 5 minute phone chat.

yes, me, totally! there is so much to say, and explain, that I find it hard in a brief conversation to say succinctly what I mean, without saying something that sounds brash. I want to sound thoughtful and reasonable, but usually my heart starts pounding and I blabber something idiotic.

[Awaken]

Wow! Good for you! I haven't finished reading the thread yet, so I haven't seen whether you've gotten a response from the principal. I am wondering what they thought and if they reconsidered at all!

Originally Posted by mar123

Thanks for all of the info. What follows is the e-mail I sent to the principal. The school is a large, all boys Catholic school- we LOVE the school and I didn't want to come across as antagonostic, merely concerned and informative. I also didn't want to go so far as to say, hell no you shouldn't offer the shot at all-even though I wanted to say it, I didn't want him to immediately dismiss the information I was offering:

Mr.XXXX,
My son is Matthew XXXX is an 8th grader at --------. At the parents’ club meeting last night, it was mentioned that --------is considering offering the vaccine at school. While I cannot have my son vaccinated, I also have no problems with the vaccine in shot form being offered. However, the flu mist vaccine is a live virus, and therefore can be shed and cause others to come down with the disease. The estimated percentage of people possibly infected by the live virus is 2.4 percent, but if you multiply that times the number of students in a school the size of ------, the number is significant, in my opinion. I urge you to only offer the shot version, which is not a live virus.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/Pubs/vis...-laiv-h1n1.pdf
This link takes you to the CDC handout on the flu mist, which clearly states it is a live virus and should not be given to those who are around people with weakened immune systems. Many people are not aware of this contraindication for the flu mist.
If the flu mist is offered and given at ----------, I will have to keep my son home for a significant time following the administration of the mist. Due to previous issues, he cannot have the vaccine, therefore he cannot be protected. While I know there may be many out there who have had the mist and are therefore contagious, the sheer number of those students who would choose the mist over a shot, and therefore be contagious, would be dangerous for my son as he would be sharing close quarters with them.
If you do choose to offer the mist, I urge it to be immediately before the holidays, so there will be a two week span of time for them to shed the virus before sitting in class with students who have not been vaccinated.
Please feel free to call me if you have any other questions or need any additional information.
Sincerely,
XXX

[tanyalynn]

Wouldn't it be cool if someone got funding to sample the population looking for antibodies for H1N1? Be especially interesting to look at the data for kids, because if the theory of why older people aren't getting this flu as much is due to lingering protection due to a somewhat similar flu years ago, it'd be interesting to look at the current generation of kids. Maybe within a few years, someone will get money to look at this. And we can learn if this actually was a big year for flu or not.

[Jenelle]

Latest from the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/weekly...0/WhoLab46.htm

[doudat]

Tiny ray of sunshine in all this muck:

I went to our local library sunday around 11am with my son and it so happens that it is annexed to a makeshift vaccination center (aka a big white tent).
The good news? It was nearly empty.

So Montrealers seem to have gotten over the mass hysteria.

On a sadder note, my son told the other kids in his group at daycare he didn't get a vaccine because I told him it contains poison (only 2 of the 10 in the group opted out )
I felt bad for that one, since the kids aren't to blame and I didn't want them to be freaked out, but the daycare worker contained the situation

[amnesiac]

Starting our December discussion before I go to bed:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...php?p=14740329