normal diaper output, yet slow gaining--UPDATE

[Therese's Mommy]

I am so confused about what is going on with my little girl. She has a normal number of wet and messy diapers a day (much more than 6 wet and anywhere from 2 to 5 messy diapers, with only one day having only 2 messy diapers), yet in the past 9 days she has only gained 1.5 oz. I am really not understanding how this can be the case. They tell you if you have at least 6 wet diapers and 3 messy diapers a day then baby is getting enough. The diapers are truly wet not just damp and the messy diapers generally have much more than a quarter size poo. Also the smell and appearance of her stools are perfectly normal. What is going on? Anyone ever experience this?

Note, I am now taking fenugreek and blessed thistle to try and up my supply and just was gifted a pump in style so I can pump after feedings to try and get some extra calories in her via cup feeding.

Any ideas about what is up??

Thanks

Beth

[Megan73]

Congratulations on the new babe!
I'm sorry you're facing this, mama. Sounds like you're doing a great job.
Is your baby being weighed on the same scale? Is it possible she lost more weight after your last weighing and is now on the way up?
I think your idea of pumping and cup feeding is a good one but I'd also see a lactation consultant as soon as you can manage.
As a newborn, my son had as many wet and dirty diapers as he was supposed to but gained NO weight until we started supplementing under the supervision of a lactation consultant. My LC said that wet diapers may show only that a baby isn't dehydrated - not that they're getting enough milk to grow well.
There are SO many possible causes - low supply for you, transfer problems with your babe because of a problem such as tongue tie or some combination of the two - that you need to get it checked out.
Good luck, mama.

[PatioGardener]

Were the weights taken on the same scale? First thing to do is to make sure the weights are on the same (good ) scale. It may be just a difference in scales (sometimes they can be off by 8 oz!!!)

I agree with the PP - diapers are a good sign that baby is not dehydrated, but weight gain in a newborn shows that baby is getting enough milk. I also suggest getting a good LC asap who can watch you nurse and look for milk transfer, latch, tongue-tie, etc. Don't wait, Mama. This time is crucial for your milk supply so if baby is not transfering enough it can impact your future supply.

[boobs4milk]

how is baby acting? is she nursing often or is she a bit lazy? i know at first we had to stimulate amelia to get her to eat. also, you could try the block feeds to make sure she gets plenty of hind milk. i'm curious to know if the scales were the same or if she might have been weighed differently. one nurse at our dr office tried to weigh millie w/o a dipe when she was weighed with one (clean) last time. i insisted it be done the same way.

hugs, beth! i know you've gone through a tough time with you other lo and allergies. i hope things work out for you. i third the advice to visit with an lc.

[PatioGardener]

How are things today? Were you able to get another weight to compare?

Sending you gaining vibes!

[DanAbimytwomiracle]

I highly recommend a supplement with goat's rue in it. I used the one from www.kerrysherbals.com and it worked very well. It took a few weeks but it got us off of supplementing.
That said, 1.5 ounces isn't enough. I would skip pumping and put her to the breast more. Unless you have a really sleepy baby, then pumping is useful. But overall (after pumping with my first try and not at all with my 2nd), I think pumping doesn't stimulate as much as the baby and can end up interfering rather than helping.

[Heba]

Is that 1.5 oz gain *on lowest weight*, or on *birth weight*? 5-7% loss of birth weight in the first few days is normal, and weight gain should then be measured from lowest point. (Note that also intravenous fluids in labour *can* increase baby's birth weight, resulting in a subsequent larger-than-typical weight-loss which has nothing to do with milk transfer.)

Babe was born on 20th October, right? So at this point is just over two weeks old? Has she regained birthweight (this should happen within 10-14 days)? If not, then I definitely second the suggestion that you see an LC to assess milk transfer.

If you meant however that at 9 days of age she was 1.5 oz *over birthweight* then I would say this is well within the realms of normal, with no cause for concern if all other signs suggest that breastfeeding is going well:
- nappy output as above
- feeding 8-12 times within a 24-hour period
- feeding on cue, for as long as baby wants (waking every 2 hours during the day or 4 hours at night if babe is sleepy)
- Baby eager to nurse
- Baby's eyes are bright and alert
- Baby's skin is a healthy colour and texture
- Periods of wakefulness and alertness

The very best of luck - if in doubt, check it out. Please let us know how you get on!
Best wishes
Heba

[ZoraP]

I had the same problem with this LO. (She's 1 wk older than yours!) I really thought things were fine based on her diapers so I didn't worry at all (plus I never had trouble with my other 2). But she hardly gained any weight her second week.

My solution was to look closely at her nursing patterns, which made me realize she was falling asleep on the breast before getting enough hindmilk, and I wasn't encouraging her to nurse more. What worked for us was to switch-nurse. This is to watch for when the baby stops nutritive sucking (which may be after just 2-3 minutes or as much as 10-15 minutes, depending on your baby), burp her, put her to the other breast, and repeat. I made sure she took both breasts at least twice every session. I also watched the clock and made sure I went through this process every two hours during the day. (Sometimes it took an hour to complete the whole process, so I spent a lot of time on the couch!) The other thing I did was to make sure I was eating a lot of nutritious, calorie-dense foods, and drinking enough.

This worked great for us -- she gained 10 oz in 6 days and has been much more content, too. Even though she was having wet diapers before I've noticed that she's peeing a lot more now, so obviously she needed to be nursing better than she was.

HTH, and good luck.

[Therese's Mommy]

Thanks everyone. We seem to be back on track now. She gained 3oz between Sat and Tue. My production seems to have ramped up. I am relaxing more, eating more (I had lost a lot of weight quickly, not by choice, just by not being careful to eat enough), I am drinking more, taking fenugreek and blessed thistle, and putting her to the breast constantly and keeping her there and nursing for at least 10min on each side as best as I can. So, I just need to keep this up and not slack back, luckily my mom is here for another 6 days to help with the older kids and dh's schedule will be relaxing a little after this week.

Beth

[PatioGardener]

That's super news! Looks like you've figured out what you both need right now. I'm so glad you have your mom to help at home this week too.

[boobs4milk]

awesome news beth!

[dislocator3972]

My DD didn't gain as much weight as the ped wanted either. After a while we realized we were just weighing her way too often. One week she'll gain a good amount, the next she'll gain either barely or nothing at all. But over the course of a month, she gains appropriately.

Was your LO a big baby? It seems to me that babies born in the higher percentiles sometimes lose more right away and then take their sweet time gaining after that. In a way it makes sense, DH and I are of average size, DD was born in the 97th %ile for height and weight, but she doesn't have the genetic background to stay there. So her weight gain has been slow, but she's healthy.

If your LO has good dipes and is overall healthy and happy, then don't judge her by her weight. It doesn't define her anymore than yours defines you.

Congrats on the good news! I hope things stay good!

[Therese's Mommy]

Originally Posted by dislocator3972

My DD didn't gain as much weight as the ped wanted either. After a while we realized we were just weighing her way too often. One week she'll gain a good amount, the next she'll gain either barely or nothing at all. But over the course of a month, she gains appropriately.

Was your LO a big baby? It seems to me that babies born in the higher percentiles sometimes lose more right away and then take their sweet time gaining after that. In a way it makes sense, DH and I are of average size, DD was born in the 97th %ile for height and weight, but she doesn't have the genetic background to stay there. So her weight gain has been slow, but she's healthy.

If your LO has good dipes and is overall healthy and happy, then don't judge her by her weight. It doesn't define her anymore than yours defines you.

Congrats on the good news! I hope things stay good!

Your theory is interesting. DH and I were both pretty good sized babies (he was over 9lbs and I was 8lbs 9oz and 21 in), but we are both *very* short (I am not quite 4'11" and dh is maybe 5'2"). DD was 9lbs and 21" and there is very little chance of her being a tall person when she grows up. Our second was 9lbs 2oz and 22in! She is now a petite 2yo.

DD is now nursing much more voraciously. I don't have to really bug her to nurse as I did before. Her diaper output which was appropriate before has now become pretty insane. She is like my first, as soon as you change her she either pees or poops.

[noobmom]

Remember that a newborn's size is indicative of the maternal environment. Just think about how GD babies can get very big. Once the baby is out of the womb, they will naturally migrate to their proper percentile. We went through this with DS a lot too. He was born at 50th percentile and quickly dropped 10th. Everyone (including me, FTM) was freaking out. You know what? He's now a healthy 3 yo...and he's still 10th percentile, for both height and weight. And I know he's eating enough--after all, he's old enough to tell me if he's still hungry! I fully expect him to stay there until he hits puberty. MIL told me that DH was always the smallest kid in the class until then. Then he shot up like a weed and now he's over 6 ft tall.

I think you're doing a great job with watching the output. Try to relax and keep doing what you're doing .

[Therese's Mommy]

Well I had her in to the lactation consultant on 11/3 and she weighed 8lbs 10oz which was an acceptable weight gain from her previous weigh in, but it was done right after I nursed her. I was still having a hard time relaxing about her weight. So, on Thur, 11/12 I went to Gander Mountain and bought a digital fish scale. I weighed her on 11/12 and she weighed 9lbs 2.7oz, which was nearly a 9oz gain in 9 days Of course, this was a different scale, so I wasn't totally convinced we were ok. I weighed her this morning and she was up another 1.75oz from Thur, so we are totally good here She also was up to her birth weight by 3 weeks which my friend who is an LLL leader told me was the benckmark to reach.

So, I am not entirely sure what was going on. I know a big part of it was my supply which was most likely lacking from not eating/drinking enough and the ton of stress I was feeling because of situations going on in the house. My supply is super ramped up now, so much so that I stopped taking the fenugreek and blessed thistle a week ago and my supply hasn't lessened at all. I have also relaxed with the feedings. I was always so stressed about getting her to nurse at least 10 minutes on a side, but I have come to learn that my girl is a snacker. She doesn't like to nurse 10 minutes at a time, but rather she will nurse several times in an hour or so. I have been block feeding (I think that is what it is called), concentrating on one breast for several hours. Even doing this my breasts don't ever feel empty (my bras are tight), but now I am sure she is getting the hindmilk. She is happier too not being forced to eat for 10 minutes at a time. She doesn't fall asleep at the breast, she just doesn't want to suck anymore.

Thanks for all your kind words and support...now I am enjoying my beautiful little girl like I should have been from the beginning

Beth

[PatioGardener]

That is super news! I'm glad you have found the nursing pattern that works for your little girl and that she is gaining weight in a typical manner now! YAY!

I am sure that other moms will find your story really helpful - thanks for the update!

ps Also good to hear that you are taking care of yourself too

[boobs4milk]

great news, beth! so glad things are working out for you both. hugs!