Questions about Jehovah's Witnesses

[Yooper]

I am not sure this is the right forum, but it seemed to fit here best.

My 6 yo dd has befriended another little girl who is also homeschooled. And because they are in a lot of the same activities, I find myself chatting with the mom quite a bit. I am not sure we would ever be best friends or anything, I do enjoy her company and getting to know her. After a few months of hanging out together, I recently discovered that their family is JW. This came to my attention when we were discussing Halloween and how they do not celebrate it. I knew nothing about JW so I did a little Wikipedia and searched the archived threads on this site. I just want to be sure we do not accidently offend them due to my ignorance. But as I looked into it more, I have added concerns that I would like to get some advice on. If anyone here is JW or knows people who are, I could use your help.

A little background. We are agnostic and do not go to church. Dh was raised Catholic, me Lutheran. Both of our families are active in their churches. We also attended church until about 4 years ago when we decided that we really did not fit well with organized religion. Dh might even lean more towards atheist whereas I might lean toward pagan. Our lifestyle most definitely comes into conflict with what JW believe. We do drink, occasionally more than "moderately". We all swear like sailors, dd included. We celebrate most Christian holidays, and birthdays. There are several other examples but I will stop with that.

There was zero indication that this family disapproves of us....which is why I was quite shocked to discover they were JW. My questions are:

1. I know they do not celebrate birthdays. Should we not invite dd's friend to her parties?
2. I have read that JWs are discouraged from seeking friendships with non-JW people. This woman initiated the play dates to begin with. I worry that this could be painful to dd down the road if they have to end their friendship over this.
3. Are some congregations far more lax than the norm? We know other JWs from the same congregation and I have never known them to be strict. This is partly why I was pretty surprised by the rules and such when I did some reading. I have never had the impression that there were that many rules or that they would not mingle with non-JWs.
4. As I mentioned, I might lean toward pagan. I have many friends who are. So does dd. How big of a problem could this be? I feel sort of dirty not talking about it, but OTOH, I do not really feel like it is anybody else's business. WDYT?
5. Dd tends to go on and on and ON about holidays. I plan to discuss about being sensitive about this subject, but I do not think it is realistic to expect a 6 yo to always remember not to talk about trick-or-treating, solstice parties, birthdays, the tooth fairy, etc.... Is the occasional slip-up going to be an issue?

That is all I can think of right now.

TIA!

[caro113]

I'm not JW but I had a friend growing up who was.

When it came to parties, we usually didn't invite her because she could not attend. Everyone is different though. Some are more lax and will go to the party but they really not supposed to do any singing or gift giving. The idea behind it, as I understood from my friend, was that no one day is any more special than any other day.

I've really never heard of them being discouraged from seeking friendships from non JW, but if you think about it, most religions are like that. I knew a Jewish girl who was forbidden - by her parents - to ever date a non-Jew. She was heartbroken because she really liked this one guy and he really liked her, but they couldn't date. My JW friend never had that problem. And as I said, we were pretty good friends and I'm not JW. We even roomed together for two weeks in Italy in the 10th grade. It was great.

I'm not sure what you mean by not talking about it. Do you mean not talking about you personally leading toward Paganism or your friends be JW? You don't have to talk about it to anyone. Your beliefs are your beliefs and if you choose to keep them private, then do that. And don't feel bad about it. If your daughter asks, tell her about your beliefs. If she asks about her friend's beliefs then you can tell her what you do know and ask the mom if it would be okay for your daughter to ask questions. My friend was more than happy to answer any and all questions I ever had.

It's okay if your daughter talks about the holidays. Children do that. If her friend is bothered by it, then she'll let her know. If anything, you can tell her "Jane doesn't celebrate holidays so you may not want to talk so much about Christmas" or whatever.

And FTR, my friend drinks. She went to college and had a blast.

[readermaid]

I grew up JW, so I think I can help with some of your questions.

1. I know they do not celebrate birthdays. Should we not invite dd's friend to her parties?

I got lots of birthday invites as a kid, and it wasn't a big issue. We sent our regrets, of course. I think that if you send an invitation, you should probably expect either the mom or the child to explain to you why they don't celebrate bdays. I might be tempted to write on the invitation that you know they won't attend for religious reasons, but you wanted them to know that they were always welcome or something like that.

2. I have read that JWs are discouraged from seeking friendships with non-JW people. This woman initiated the play dates to begin with. I worry that this could be painful to dd down the road if they have to end their friendship over this.

In general this is true. Non-JW friendships are definitely discouraged. Some people are more lax about this, but down the road (such as when the girl decides to get baptized) it may become an issue for sure.

3. Are some congregations far more lax than the norm? We know other JWs from the same congregation and I have never known them to be strict. This is partly why I was pretty surprised by the rules and such when I did some reading. I have never had the impression that there were that many rules or that they would not mingle with non-JWs.

It does vary quite a bit. My family lived in a few different areas of the country when I was a kid, and we attended JW congregations that were subtly different. In my experience, urban areas or more affluent areas tended to be less rule oriented. All congregations do take direction from the Watchtower, though, so it will depend on individual interpretation of the magazine as to how strict they are.

4. As I mentioned, I might lean toward pagan. I have many friends who are. So does dd. How big of a problem could this be? I feel sort of dirty not talking about it, but OTOH, I do not really feel like it is anybody else's business. WDYT?

JW's tend to be of the opinion that all religions that are not JW are the same. As in, I don't think that they would have more of a problem with you being pagan than if you were Catholic or anything else. Though this attitude may vary. They would very definitely be wary of anything that seemed "demonic." This tends to be a catch-all term that can apply to anything that freaks them out, though.

5. Dd tends to go on and on and ON about holidays. I plan to discuss about being sensitive about this subject, but I do not think it is realistic to expect a 6 yo to always remember not to talk about trick-or-treating, solstice parties, birthdays, the tooth fairy, etc.... Is the occasional slip-up going to be an issue?

I doubt it. As a JW, you just kind of get used to it. You know you're different even as a kid. At least that's the way it was for me.



It may be of help to note that the JW's have a high turnover rate (as per this study from the Pew Forum which says that only 37% percent of people who say they were raised as JW's still identify as such), and there are a lot of people who don't necessarily believe everything but stay in the religion for family reasons.

ETA: Things like you "don't fit in with organized religion" will likely make a JW relate to you. They consider themselves different from other religions.

Also, JW's don't have anything against alcohol. Most are probably pretty conservative about swearing, but that'll vary too.

[NishaG]

I don't know about the "high turnover rate", but, otherwise, they'll let you know if they have a problem with something. Basically, if she feels that you or your daughter are trying to pressure them into doing anything pagan-like, that will become an issue.

I'd also like to think that we take direction from The Bible, and just use the Watchtower as an aid to applying and understanding. It's not a magazine or book that takes the place of the Bible at all.

HTH,

Nisha - speaking for herself as an actual JW.

[Yooper]

Thanks everyone! Your replies are very helpful.

[NishaG]

There may be only a 37% rate of JWs raised as such that identify as such, but that doesn't take into account those who become JWs that are not raised as one.

[Yooper]

My main motivation for coming here to discuss and doing my own research is to make it as likely as possible for dd to have a positive relationship with her friend and me with her mom. As in, I do not want us to cause any avoidable discomfort for them by being insensitive. While we are not particularly religious, we do have other lifestyle choices that set us outside the norm and I know that sometimes it can be painful and/or uncomfortable for us....."What?!?! You don't have a TV?!?!.....go to SCHOOL?!?!....Eat MEAT?!?!....etc" While I never blame someone for causing discomfort, I always appreciate it when people attempt to be sensitive.

We have hung out a couple more times since I started this thread and have become convinced that their family and/or congregation is very lax. They are very into popular culture (including music I find too offensive to encourage dd to listen to), do not dress "modestly", and are obviously open to relationships with non-JW people. The only indication I have that they are JW at all (other than her telling me they are) is that they do not celebrate holidays and birthdays.

The reason I mentioned feeling "dirty" about not discussing our beliefs is that I do not want them to feel "deceived" later that we did not come clean. But it sounds as though it is just "assumed" that we are not on the "right path" and that pagan is no worse than any other "wrong path". I do not mean that snarkily.....I was just under the impression that pagans were particularly offensive to JWs. Know that that is not true is very helpful.

Thanks!

[NishaG]

Yooper: You are absolutely right! Did not mean to hijack your thread. Anyway, it may not be that her congregation is lax, just that she and her family in general is lax. Also, take into account that they may not be very active in their congregation, or, she may be studying to be a JW, and not actually baptized.

Whatever the case, if you both feel comfortable around each other, and she personally has no objections to your way of life, then I see no issue.

[waiting2bemommy]

I didn't read the responses, but every JW is different. I was raised a Witness and am baptized, but have certainly fallen from the standards I was raised by, more than once. I was even disfellowshipped for a while. Since being "back" I find that I have a much more balanced view of what is OK.

For example, I would prefer that ds make his close friends other kids who are being raised with similar beliefs, BUT I also encourage him to socialize at the playground, the mall, etc with lots of different people who no doubt have a wide range of standards. It sounds like your acquaintance/friend feels the same. Of course, if your kids are little now, as they grow, the issues will, too, and it is entirely possible that they will just grow apart, or maybe the other mom (or you) will see fit not to have them spend as much time around each other.

I really don't think you need to worry about censoring yourself or your child. Maybe the cursing might bother her, but I'm sure she knows you are not Witnesses and celebrate the holidays and so forth. I mean, you can be honest without throwing in her face something that is a major difference.

And as far as "lax" and "strict" goes, that is very much more a family thing than a congregation thing. Every family is different. It sounds like this family is on the more relaxed side, since I know a lot of Witnesses, and the majority of the one I know probably wouldn't initiate a playdate with a non-Witness, although they would have no problem associating at homeschool get togethers and the like.

ETA after reading the rest of the thread, I just want to say as a person who identifies herself NOW as a JW that it sounds like they may be calling themselves that without truly embracing the Bible standards that we try to live by. Generally when I have been at a point in my life where I was not willing or able to live by those standards, I would tell people "I was raised JW and I hope to return, but right now I am not following all of the principles I believe in." It might be something like that with them. I mean, I wear low rise jeans and fitted t shirts and what have you, but I think the averag person would still call it modest. If I did listen to a particular song or watched a TV show that I thought might not be appropriate I definitely wouldn't be advertising it. Either you are doing things a certain way or you aren't. It sounds like they may just be studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, or used to be active Witnesses but no longer are. I don't know many active witnesses who do ALL the things you mentioned above. maybe they struggle in one area, but ALL of them?