s/o- This is a weaning technique??

[changingseasons]

I was just reading the "forcing toddlers to nurse" thread, and a couple people mentioned that "don't offer, don't refuse" is a parent-led weaning technique.

Really? I'm a little confused how that is parent led. I mean if the child wants to nurse, she will nurse. If she doesn't... she doesn't. Isn't that taking her lead, and letting her wean naturally? What exactly is child-led weaning then? Offering and offering and offering until they flat-out say "NO"? That seems a little aggressive to be child-led, imho.

It really doesn't matter either way... I'm just curious. I honestly think I have only "offered" to nurse DD a handful of times since she was born- it's always by her initiative. She just turned 2, and we're nowhere close to weaning.

[LadyCatherine185]

Honestly I feel it is a little of both.. The reason I feel that is because toddlers get so busy sometimes they forget to ask. But I definitely see what you are saying as far as keeping on asking if they are not interested. I guess for many it is something you fall into naturally as they get older and are better at expressing their needs. Some toddlers are not good at it, and they may need to be reminded to nurse if fussy, etc. Some (like my DS) will pull on your shirt and say "milka-milka" when he wants it.. But if we are really busy, or out of the house, he will not ask. Even if I offer he will not nurse because he is very easily distracted. In fact, he is easily distracted in our own house and unless I go into our dark quiet bedroom he won't nurse a 'good' nursing. Sorry.. rambling... But yeah, a little of both I believe.

[pbjmama]

The idea behind this is that all children are meant to nurse until at least 2 years old. So if anything before 2 is premature weaning, not offering nursing would be a weaning technique as the child may get too distracted to nurse or other. If you know nursing until at least 2 is best for you child you offer it frequently. Try substituting the word veggies in for nursing. Your child might not ask for veggies but you keep offering, right? Because you know it is an important part of their diet, good for their bodies, building immunity, etc.

Would it change your view if it was a 9 month old that didn't ask to nurse? Is that child vs. parent led weaning? Changing that view from 1 year to 2 years can be difficult, especially given general US culture.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by pbjmama

The idea behind this is that all children are meant to nurse until at least 2 years old. So if anything before 2 is premature weaning, not offering nursing would be a weaning technique as the child may get too distracted to nurse or other. If you know nursing until at least 2 is best for you child you offer it frequently. Try substituting the word veggies in for nursing. Your child might not ask for veggies but you keep offering, right? Because you know it is an important part of their diet, good for their bodies, building immunity, etc.

Would it change your view if it was a 9 month old that didn't ask to nurse? Is that child vs. parent led weaning? Changing that view from 1 year to 2 years can be difficult, especially given general US culture.

Honestly, I would still say that is child-led weaning. Of course, I would really be questioning why a 9-month old didn't want to nurse, because that doesn't sound right or healthy to me. I would look for underlying physical causes (food allergies, tongue tie, things like that). And I would push to continue nursing at that age, don't get me wrong. But I don't think that you can call it child-led weaning if the parent is always "suggesting" that the child nurse.

I guess I'm thinking about it along the same lines as unschooling (which admittedly, I know little about, so I could be way off base here.) If you say to your child, "hey- do you want to learn about math today? How about we do some fractions?"- would you call that unschooling? Is that child-led learning if the parent is making suggestions?

So again- for a younger child, I personally would continue suggesting/offering if she stopped wanting to nurse... but I don't think I would call it child-led weaning at that point. I guess I'm just having difficulties with the wording of it. And I was a little taken aback to learn that I am weaning my daughter just because I don't ever "offer" the breast (because she still nurses 8-10 times a day on her initiative... there's never a need to offer.)

[pbjmama]

I agree the concept and wording can be confusing and I didn't do the best job explaining even my views on it. I didn't read the thread you are referring to so I can't comment on that either. And I know nothing about unschooling but I think the idea behind it is to take every day situations and weave in learning - so instead of saying lets learn the abcs you say oh this apple is yummy. Apple starts with A, A makes the ah sound, etc.

Honestly when my ds was two I couldn't imagine that he would ever wean himself. He asked all the time - I didn't need to offer. I didn't consider that parent led weaning. In the end I did wean him at 3.5 years. My dd is a different story and I've had to think about our breastfeeding relationship differently for a long time. I do alot of offering with her because she could have been one of those kids that weaned early because she was so busy and easily distracted.

I think your question is a good one and it can be hard to hash it out. My views on weaning have changed alot in the past few years because of alot of thought, research and talking with other moms. Part of the motherhood journey!

[ssh]

Some very young toddlers get so distracted by cruising, learning to walk and other developmental milestones they forget to nurse. If your 9, 12 or 18 month old is too busy to remember to nurse, not offering would be a weaning technique.

Now my almost 4 year old who only nurses for seconds before she's 'all done' is a different story. She doesn't really drink milk when she does nurse, it's over too quick. I stopped asking if she wanted to nurse a couple of months after she started the very brief not really getting any milk type of nursing. She still asks at least once a day. Since she's already weaning herself it's not the same as a distracted toddler.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by ssh

Some very young toddlers get so distracted by cruising, learning to walk and other developmental milestones they forget to nurse. If your 9, 12 or 18 month old is too busy to remember to nurse, not offering would be a weaning technique.

Now my almost 4 year old who only nurses for seconds before she's 'all done' is a different story. She doesn't really drink milk when she does nurse, it's over too quick. I stopped asking if she wanted to nurse a couple of months after she started the very brief not really getting any milk type of nursing. She still asks at least once a day. Since she's already weaning herself it's not the same as a distracted toddler.

So I'm still confused.... If you are no longer offering, then technically you are weaning, correct? You're not calling that child-led weaning, are you?

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

So I'm still confused.... If you are no longer offering, then technically you are weaning, correct? You're not calling that child-led weaning, are you?

At age 4, I would call that child-led. A 4 year old doesn't need the milk or nursing the same way a 12-24 mo needs it, and can easily express their wants/needs. Like I said in my PP, I think this technique is hard to say whether it is parent or child-led 100% because at different ages/stages of a child's life, there will be different needs..

[ssh]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

So I'm still confused.... If you are no longer offering, then technically you are weaning, correct? You're not calling that child-led weaning, are you?

Except for one night when my DD was getting a cold (she actually nursed then) she smiles, latches on, and then says she's done. She hasn't been actually drinking any milk. She 'nurses' for literally seconds. After several weeks of this nursing but not really drinking any milk at all I stopped asking if she wanted any. I felt asking her would be interfering with her weaning process since she's stopped actually drinking milk. She still asks one to three times a day. It seems like she still likes the idea of it all but doesn't really want to drink breast milk anymore.

I've never really even talked to her about weaning, so all of this is really her doing.

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by ssh

Except for one night when my DD was getting a cold (she actually nursed then) she smiles, latches on, and then says she's done. She hasn't been actually drinking any milk. She 'nurses' for literally seconds. After several weeks of this nursing but not really drinking any milk at all I stopped asking if she wanted any. I felt asking her would be interfering with her weaning process since she's stopped actually drinking milk. She still asks one to three times a day. It seems like she still likes the idea of it all but doesn't really want to drink breast milk anymore.

I've never really even talked to her about weaning, so all of this is really her doing.

The bolded part is kind of what I'm getting at here- she is weaning herself, and you're letting her do that on her own terms. I should have clarified my last post.... I agree that what you're doing is child led. But if you're going by what seems to be the common MDC definition (don't offer/don't refuse = parent-led weaning), then it wouldn't be considered child-led. That's my point of confusion I guess.

[ssh]

My point was I still offered for several weeks after she stopped actually drinking milk. I only stopped offering because I didn't want her to feel I disapprove of her choice to stop nursing. It's very different from not offering when a child is still drinking milk and nursing daily.

If I'd stopped offering back in the first week of September when my DD was still nursing to sleep, that would have been parent led weaning. I think not offering only fits in with CLW when the child is already cutting back on the amount of nursing time or the frequency so much that you back off so they don't feel pressure from you to nurse.

[AislinCarys]

Among the people I know, who may not be very AP (although they breastfeed, if they can, and may co-sleep, and most of them wouldn't dream of hitting their children), and certainly not willing to do things differently, most of their children weaned between 6 and 12 months - and the parents claim their child weaned on their own. Several of the mums are even sad, as they would have liked to breastfeed longer. I don't think it is unusual at all that children get busy hen they start crawling, walking and talking, and may forget to feed. Then at lunch-time, of course they are ravenous, so they eat more than they otherwise would, and then they might not get hungry for quite a while. Then the parents often introduce cow's milk in bottle or a sippy cup around this time, which of course plays in too.

My DD, however, loves her mama's milk, and still at 20 months will feed 12-20 times a day. I hardly ever offer, although I do sometimes put her to the breast before she's "asked" (because I know far too well that she will demand it), and there's no distracting her. I do, however refuse sometime, although it hardly ever works. I don't think DD got the memo that this is weaning technique!

[changingseasons]

Originally Posted by AislinCarys

I do, however refuse sometime, although it hardly ever works. I don't think DD got the memo that this is weaning technique!

I don't think my DD got that memo either!!

[kiwiva]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I don't think my DD got that memo either!!

Seriously! I cannot recall the last time I offered DD (just turned 3) nursing, but since she nurses 5-7 times a day (and I mean drinks and drinks) there is no weaning going on here!

[sapphire_chan]

I thought part of don't offer/don't refuse is that on occasions when you'd normally offer nursing--got hurt, bedtime--you offer other things first.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by AislinCarys

Among the people I know, who may not be very AP (although they breastfeed, if they can, and may co-sleep, and most of them wouldn't dream of hitting their children), and certainly not willing to do things differently, most of their children weaned between 6 and 12 months - and the parents claim their child weaned on their own.

Did they nurse at night while cosleeping? Because if we didn't co-sleep Lina would've "weaned herself" around 9 months. A frequent pattern is to stop night feeds by like 6 months for "sleeping through the night" then introduce a lot of other foods, then the baby gets busy and only nurses briefly a couple of times a day and is declared "done with nursing, s/he just didn't want to anymore".

[zensven42]

I don't think it matters what you call it. I've never offered the breast to any of my children. I always just fed them when they showed signs of hunger. I am of the mind that most children self regulate fairly easily if they have a variety of foods available to them. At least mine seem to. As they get older they ask less overall for the boob naturally it seems.

Also, I would not call having the boobs covered as unavailable, because it seems like, at any age, they always know they are there and have different ways of asking for them, even if they have other food right in front of them, KWIM?