How about another Classical/CM thread? - Page 2

[Momma Aimee]

sightly OT -- but only a little:

are any of you HS a SN child?

I have read a good amout of the Classical Ideals and so on -- and I know we are going to strive for a Classical and fairly structured school at home appraoch.

but i look at some of the lists and think WOW i just do not see Theodore being ready for this stuff or able to do some of this stuff -- at least at the younger ages listed -- for example the Formidable List of Attainments for a Child of Six --

This is a struggle for me, in general not specifially with Classical HS ...

for example at 4 Theo can barely speak and be understood -- so he can't really recit anything yet. he does KNWO several nusery rhymes .. but even i can't "decode' most of the words.

I know he is young still, but i feel there is so much trapped in his head he can't share -- but that he knows.

so i look at some of the lists and the goals and suggestions and they seem so beyond us . Not that his IQ is effected, it is not, but the pratical issues of speech and emotional stuff and the "sitting downa nd getting it done" aspects seem so huge

just wondering if anyone else has this struggle.

Aimee

[StormySar]

Hi! Subbing. we just switched to a classical curriculum. My daughter is in K, sh's my oldest, and I'm excited about next year and how much more we'll be doing.

When did you introduce latin? does it have to be latin? my husband didn't want us to do latin because he feels if we're going to spend time learning another language why not have it be something they can use communicate with others - like spanish. but from what I understand, latin will help a lot with the kids ability to understand new words considering most of our language has latin roots. what other benefits are there? what did you use? how long did you study it, and when, if ever, did you introduce a language like spanish?

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

sightly OT -- but only a little:

are any of you HS a SN child?

I have read a good amout of the Classical Ideals and so on -- and I know we are going to strive for a Classical and fairly structured school at home appraoch.

but i look at some of the lists and think WOW i just do not see Theodore being ready for this stuff or able to do some of this stuff -- at least at the younger ages listed -- for example the Formidable List of Attainments for a Child of Six --

This is a struggle for me, in general not specifially with Classical HS ...

for example at 4 Theo can barely speak and be understood -- so he can't really recit anything yet. he does KNWO several nusery rhymes .. but even i can't "decode' most of the words.

I know he is young still, but i feel there is so much trapped in his head he can't share -- but that he knows.

so i look at some of the lists and the goals and suggestions and they seem so beyond us . Not that his IQ is effected, it is not, but the pratical issues of speech and emotional stuff and the "sitting downa nd getting it done" aspects seem so huge

just wondering if anyone else has this struggle.

Aimee

I am, and the Well Trained Mind book talks about this. The WTM forums have a special place just for special needs homeschooling.
Classical education can be a great fit for a special needs child. It just requires more patience and not trying to move ahead until they are ready. You may spend more then 4 years in the grammar phase, and that's OK! It might take him until 10 to do the 6 year old list- and that's fine. It's about giving them the maximum potential and chances for their specific abilities.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by StormySar

Hi! Subbing. we just switched to a classical curriculum. My daughter is in K, sh's my oldest, and I'm excited about next year and how much more we'll be doing.

When did you introduce latin? does it have to be latin? my husband didn't want us to do latin because he feels if we're going to spend time learning another language why not have it be something they can use communicate with others - like spanish. but from what I understand, latin will help a lot with the kids ability to understand new words considering most of our language has latin roots. what other benefits are there? what did you use? how long did you study it, and when, if ever, did you introduce a language like spanish?

Hey, welcome! We started Latin with DD1 at 5. It does not have to be Latin, but Latin is very useful. There's the word root thing, and the usefulness or studying a language's grammar without worrying about meeting a native speaker. Once you know Latin it's pretty easy to pick up another romance language.
We're using Prima Latina which is a religious curriculum. My kids are also exposed to French and Spanish and some Chinese, but not on a formal basis. HTH!

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by StormySar

Hi! Subbing. we just switched to a classical curriculum. My daughter is in K, sh's my oldest, and I'm excited about next year and how much more we'll be doing.

When did you introduce latin? does it have to be latin? my husband didn't want us to do latin because he feels if we're going to spend time learning another language why not have it be something they can use communicate with others - like spanish. but from what I understand, latin will help a lot with the kids ability to understand new words considering most of our language has latin roots. what other benefits are there? what did you use? how long did you study it, and when, if ever, did you introduce a language like spanish?

for what it is worth - i have 4 years of high school latin and 3 years of college latin ... and while i have never spoken it -- it is a vaulable tool. you will be shocked how much of the living languages ARE pulled from Latin. Also I learned a TON more abut English Grammer from Latin class than any other place (including my AP English in high schoola nd my Honor English at college).

But I don't know that it HAS to be anything, that is the joy of Homeschhooling.

theretohere =-- thanks. I have read TWM .. guess i need to reread it again now that i know more .. you make a good point about him not achieveing the 6 yo goals at 6 -- which i just can't see -- but i do have total faith he WILL that is a big part of our intent to homeschool, to avoid him feeling behind or left out or differnt. He will catch up -- he jsut need more time to be little (thus quoted the Dev Ped).

Aimee

[MyLittleWonders]

Originally Posted by StormySar

Hi! Subbing. we just switched to a classical curriculum. My daughter is in K, sh's my oldest, and I'm excited about next year and how much more we'll be doing.

When did you introduce latin? does it have to be latin? my husband didn't want us to do latin because he feels if we're going to spend time learning another language why not have it be something they can use communicate with others - like spanish. but from what I understand, latin will help a lot with the kids ability to understand new words considering most of our language has latin roots. what other benefits are there? what did you use? how long did you study it, and when, if ever, did you introduce a language like spanish?

We just started Latin this year - all three boys are learning (8, 6, and 3). We use Song School Latin and love it. It is a gentle introduction mostly through song. There is a workbook and I am going to slowly have my oldest start doing the simple exercises in it, but I want their reading and writing in English to be strong before introducing reading/writing in Latin (especially because there are some differences in letters/pronunciation).

My oldest will start a more formal Latin program either this spring or summer/fall. I debated which one for a long time, but decided to go with Latin for Children (same publisher as SSL). I figured all of us can learn along with the DVDs and CDs (chants), yet ds#1 will be responsible for the reading/writing at this point in time.

Personally, I think Latin is just plain cool to learn (I love the looks we get when I say the boys are learning Latin ). I also agree with theretohere that there is great benefit to learning Latin. In a year, we'll start more formal Spanish study along with Latin study. Eventually, I hope to have us all pretty well versed in not only Latin, but Spanish, Italian, and French. (I also want to add Norwegian in there as that is the language of my heritage, but it has no relation to romance languages and I'm not sure how I want to go to about doing it!)

[pageta]

Originally Posted by theretohere

Pageta- are you doing Earlybird 1A or Primary 1A? Standards or US? I'm happy to find someone else doing Singapore. And what a fun idea to do Ambleside 11- I'm going to look at that now.

We are doing Primary 1A Standards. I have the HIG, textbook and workbook. I started without the HIG and was completely lost, tried Right Start (hated it) and went back to Singapore with the HIG. We're doing quite well now. I make it work for me rather than being a slave to the curriculum, which also helps.

[theretohere]

Originally Posted by pageta

We are doing Primary 1A Standards. I have the HIG, textbook and workbook. I started without the HIG and was completely lost, tried Right Start (hated it) and went back to Singapore with the HIG. We're doing quite well now. I make it work for me rather than being a slave to the curriculum, which also helps.

Good to know! We're on track to start 1A this upcoming semester, or a little sooner. I am definitely planning to get the HiG!

[PJsmomma]

An Ambleside CM'r here

We're on Year 3 and this is our 4th year of following Ambleside. I'm in love with the results I'm seeing.

I follow Ambleside fairly closely because I like their selections. I've cut out a couple that we just hated though.

For Math we use Math U See

Geography-- Kids Learn America and outline maps

Latin--Getting Started with Latin. We started last Jan so he was newly 8. We move pretty slowly but it's definitely fun to learn. I wrote the words we know on 3x5 cards and we use them as flashcards once a week too.

I get a bit behind on the free reading. My son doesn't read those to himself yet, so I'm trying to not feel behind and just keep plodding along. They're great books and we definitely enjoy them.


To the mom doing Year 11--wow what a great idea!

[Materfamilias]

We're doing a combination of classical/CM but I'm not feeling too organized yet, as this is our first year HS. We're doing Saxon math, which has been good so far, and writing and reading more or less what we want. ds is reading the Magic Treehouse series and I'm reading Harry Potter to him. We have been doing a lot of stems, which ds really likes --looking forcthem in words we run across. We do a lot of nature stuff.
Our Latin is Cambridge Minimus, taken very slow, and lots of spoken Latin, especially in the car: Quid vides? Video ... Basically I spy in Latin, and a lot of question and answer, like Quomodo te habes?/me habeo bene, Quid facis?/ego specto/ago/sedeo/dico etc. I'm a Latin teacher by trade though...

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by Materfamilias

We're doing a combination of classical/CM but I'm not feeling too organized yet, as this is our first year HS. We're doing Saxon math, which has been good so far, and writing and reading more or less what we want. ds is reading the Magic Treehouse series and I'm reading Harry Potter to him. We have been doing a lot of stems, which ds really likes --looking forcthem in words we run across. We do a lot of nature stuff.
Our Latin is Cambridge Minimus, taken very slow, and lots of spoken Latin, especially in the car: Quid vides? Video ... Basically I spy in Latin, and a lot of question and answer, like Quomodo te habes?/me habeo bene, Quid facis?/ego specto/ago/sedeo/dico etc. I'm a Latin teacher by trade though...

LOL

that is kinda cheating

LOL

[pageta]

Originally Posted by PJsmomma

An Ambleside CM'r here

We're on Year 3 and this is our 4th year of following Ambleside. I'm in love with the results I'm seeing.

I follow Ambleside fairly closely because I like their selections. I've cut out a couple that we just hated though.

Yes, I've found all sorts of treasures in AO selections that I hadn't heard of elsewhere. I'm curious which ones you hated, though.

[jessicaSAR]

Originally Posted by pageta

Yes, I've found all sorts of treasures in AO selections that I hadn't heard of elsewhere. I'm curious which ones you hated, though.

I know you were not asking me, but we are on year 3 and I did not like The Story of Inventions, or the Landmark Leonardo Da Vinci book by Emily Hahn. I just completely descheduled the Inventions book because even I was falling asleep reading it. There has to be a better way to learn about Inventions, and the writing is definitely not good enough to justify the pain. I also much preferred the Diane Stanley book on Leonardo Da Vinci.

Our favorite "we never would have read it otherwise" book was definitely Understood Betsy.

[PJsmomma]

My son loves Story of Inventions--I agree though with you. I don't like it. So I gave it to him to read on his own.

I hate parables of nature--blech! I think that may be the only one I completely cut out.

[Momma Aimee]

We're inspired by classical education and Charlotte Mason ideas. I'm piecing together Ambleside Online and The Well Trained Mind ideas that feel right to our family.

*Jessica* I'd like to hear more about this. I am working my ways though the links in your post.

Theo is 4 so i have no idea what is really a fit for us, and what is not.

I know that CE is a fit for Dh and I am the phiolphical level and also a big part of why we want to HS, we want a more acidemically challangeing program than the local distract, we also want it to be Cristian in foundation and we want the boys (all children) to move at their own pace, while not doddlwling but not being held back by a class -- or rushed by a class. We want them to be better educated than we were at that age, and a lot better thant he local school districts numbers are. we want them to go to college ready and be at the top of their classes.

I know that embarking on CE is the only way DH is willing to Homeschool and it is my biggest reason too. so however we have to tweak things, or what we have to find, a foundation in CE is important to our family. now jsut to make it work.

I have read some CM and shoud read more -- to be totally honest -- no one shoot me -- i don't like her. she is a bit too "sweet" for me and a lot of the writting -- of hers or in support of her's -- iread tend, imo, to come across as assumeing parenting is simple "children must frist lear to be obedant" uhhh ok ... Not sure i can expain it. Also (bag over head) i am NOT into nature. Dh is a hunter, we have land, and we are restoring native grass and so on ... but uhhh i am far happier in the AC with a book. so a lot of the push on nature is a bit for me.

I do like the short lessons and the importance of play and the home, and leaving the strict seat work till later when the child is ready. THAT all is fundemental for us (DH and I).

I guess i am struggling with a pratical way to make WTM work for us, and looking at other CE "plans / books / programs" too.

Honestly -- I see it all working so well when the boys / kids are older ... reading, studying .. say 3rd or over .. when they have an idea "this is school, this is importnat." or "now it is time to sit and do this lesson" or when they can understand "we have 4 things we have to do today, or 10 this we have to do this week" when they can see a bigger picture. when they can read. I am jsut really foundering on NOW the 4 to 8 years when i have to GET THEM THERE

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by pageta

We are doing a combination of WTM and CM. We started out with WTM but now are more CM, I think.

Here's the run-down:

Reading - BOB books along with various early readers from the library (most as suggested at Ambleside Online and other CM sites)
Spelling - McGuffey's Eclectic Speller - doing this rather than phonics as my ds hated the little sentences he had to read as a part of OPTGR (we did make it almost to lesson 100, though)
Handwriting - I taught him his letters via Handwriting Without Tears and now we practice handwriting by writing words and short sentences taken from our reading
Math - Singapore 1A with other things like counting by 2's and telling time thrown in by me for good measure
History - SOTW 1
Science - following 4-year cycle from WTM, using Rookie Read-Aloud Series by Jim Fowler and our Childcraft set to do biology this year
Poetry - currently reading Robert Louis Stevenson
Bible - my own curriculum using the Children's Illustrated Bible, Your Story Hour, and readings from the actual Bible
Nature Study - once a week (we're just getting started with this) using the Handbook of Nature Study and blog cited by *Jessica* above
Music - using Classics for Kids; learning hymns and folksongs (we're weak in this area but getting better at it thanks to CM)
Art - Artistic Pursuits

We're kind of doing an Ambleside 0.5 year. We're reading some books from Year 0 as well as suggestions from Year 1 electives, and we're reading each book once a week so we're spreading it out like Ambleside does. I also make ds do narrations. I had started doing AO Year 1, but my ds was having trouble following books without pictures and doing the narrations, so I decided to take a step back and do books with more pictures (but not necessarily picture books) and master narration with those (which he does very well) before moving into AO Year 1. We may start back into it in January if he is ready - I don't know.

LOL!

Tana I have a question

I understand that your .5 year reference is meant to illustrate you are combineing two lists and that .5 doesn't actually exist as a list on the and you took a step back from Year 1 to meet the needs of your son.

but I am looking at teh site :

http://www.amblesideonline.org/index2.shtml

and don't see "year zero" (I would think that would ba pre-school list of somekind)

am i jsut so uneducated that i am missing your whole point??



also : am I courrect that Ambleside Online Curriculum is all "reading / lit" and that you have to add math, science and ect in to it -- at first I thought Ambleside Online Curriculum wasa full plan or curriculum .. but as i look at it .. it seems to note what you need to add, but not include the other subjects, correct or have i not read enough?

Aimee

[pageta]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

I have read some CM and shoud read more -- to be totally honest -- no one shoot me -- i don't like her. she is a bit too "sweet" for me and a lot of the writting -- of hers or in support of her's -- iread tend, imo, to come across as assumeing parenting is simple "children must frist lear to be obedant" uhhh ok ... Not sure i can expain it. Also (bag over head) i am NOT into nature. Dh is a hunter, we have land, and we are restoring native grass and so on ... but uhhh i am far happier in the AC with a book. so a lot of the push on nature is a bit for me.

That was exactly the hangups that I had. I was WTM from the beginning, but I ran into some flack from ds with reading and phonics, and I didn't like First Language Lessons. So I looked at the CM method (SCM and AO) and started picking and choosing what I liked. I joined the AO yahoo groups and have learned a lot there, especially about stuff like narrating. Then we adopted all of the literature even though we are doing SOTW and started spreading out the stories as AO does. I decided to hold off on the AO year 1 books because ds was much better at narrating from simpler stories such as those in year 0 - that was a good idea because now he is doing great with narration. I've always wanted to do music but never got to it. Now we usually get to it about half the time, though I'd like to sing together every day.

As for nature study, that was what I thought was the dumbest thing about CM. We go for walks during the warm season, but I do that for exercise and I hate piddling around (which it sounds like is what she does). But then I realized that as a kid we used to go to the park and hike once a week, and in doing that, we learned a lot about nature. I've taken to pointing out something new every week to ds just to learn a little. Last week we "dissected" pumpkins. This week we've been talking about shadows and observing them at various times during the week. We'll be watching from out picture window for various birds and such during the winter. And my boys play outside for hours during the warm season, and I must say I am surprised at how much they have picked up on and how fun it is to explain it a little further.

The moral of the story - take what you like, make it work for you, and leave the rest.

[Citymomx3]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

don't see "year zero" (I would think that would ba pre-school list of somekind)

am i jsut so uneducated that i am missing your whole point??



also : am I courrect that Ambleside Online Curriculum is all "reading / lit" and that you have to add math, science and ect in to it -- at first I thought Ambleside Online Curriculum wasa full plan or curriculum .. but as i look at it .. it seems to note what you need to add, but not include the other subjects, correct or have i not read enough?

Aimee

Year zero is touted as Kindergarten level (4-6yrs old) and is just a list of good readalouds. http://www.amblesideonline.org/00.shtml

AO's readings cover not only literature and poetry, but history, biographies, science, nature and geography as well.

The only thing you really have to add apart from the given curriculum is a math program. Composition is learned starting with copywork and oral narrations and then written narrations and dictation exercises. Grammar is learned through the great readings, poetry, and copywork. So technically you don't need to supplement, but many parents do. You are guided through the rest of the program such as how to incorporate narrations, copywork, book of centuries, wall timeline, artist study, composer study, nature study/journaling, hymns and folksongs, habits, and handicrafts. The site map page has study guides, helps, advice, suggestions, various schedules, tons of printouts of poetry and artwork, and the all-important CM Original Series, which is really a great idea to read.

The weekly schedule is great in that it allows you do break it up in whatever way works for you. I use it as a full curriculum. I just took out the religious stuff, added our own math, and added a reading program since my son is dyslexic and needs a little more practice.

[theretohere]

Momma Aimee- your oldest is not quite 4- right? I would relax- you have a lot of time ahead of you to figure this out. The big things right now are play, play, play. And if you really want something more schoolish, just reading outloud. It can seem insurmountable when you are looking at an energetic little person. That doesn't mean it is, just that it's not the right time, yet. Ambleside has nothing but a booklist until children are 6 years old. WTM would have you working on some academics a little earlier, but still in about a year.
Once you start adding- the best way to do it is one thing at a time. I did a gentle preschool at 4 at home that was mostly coloring and just getting used to being at the table. Then I added math (the Earlybird from Singapore) for 5-10 minutes a day. That's all we did for 6 months. Then I slowly added phonics- once again at 5-10 minutes a day.
Now my DD1 does the full grouping of LA, math, science, history, and art, but it was so slow and gradual that it was never a big deal or overwhelming for her or I. Anytime it seemed stressful was a cue to back off.
Your little ones will be there soon- doing so much that your heart just . Have fun!

[MyLittleWonders]

Well, we finally did science today! We are doing physics/simple machines (I don't keep with the WTM order for science; we do nature study and whatever science topic interests us). We read about forces, movement and work (from a physics point of view ), did some hands-on examples of force and work, did a couple workbook activity pages, and then each of the older two boys had a copywork sentence. I decided we had four solid days of our "core" subjects, so today was just science and art.

For art, I'm not as pleased, mostly because it was late in the day and I think I needed to have an example ready for the boys. They did fine - we read again about St. Francis of Assisi (we like him), and then I showed some examples of "illuminated" manuscripts and read a bit about them (we've learned about the art of illumination off and on this year while studying the Middle Ages), and then had them "illuminate" a copy of Francis' Canticle of the Sun. For boys who really wanted to get outside and go down to the neighbor's house, they did okay. After the fact, I put a couple books about The Book of Kells on hold at the library. They find the topic interesting, but aren't very artsy. I also wanted to do a picture study from Classical Writing, but I knew not to push it!