Desperately seeking support...

[sherri_b]

Hi all... I'm new! A good friend led me to mothering.com & these forums... and I'm excited to have found ya'll.

I apologize in advance if this gets too long... But I am writing ya'll tonite on the verge of giving up.

My husband and I just discovered thrush in our baby girl's mouth for the THIRD time since she's been born 10 1/2 wks. ago.

The first time around, I went the standard route with my lactation consultant's script for nystatin & lotramin.... plus all that other stuff like nipple rise, hyper-sterilization of everything and so on.

It came back. The second time around, we upped our fight with a script for diflucan and I started chuggin' back the acidophilus, as well as giving it to baby (per Pat Gima's thrush treatment plan.)

That time, it cleared up wonderfully & seemingly quicker than before.

Just when I thought I'd won the battle, we began having a serious problem with over-active let down. I just cried as my sweet girl choked & cried time & time again... then cried as I would pump thru let down to try to help her out.

And here we are again with thrush... and I am just so down about this tonite that I feel like giving it up. I really just need some encouragement I believe...

This little one is my third... I breastfeed my 1st (now 7) for 7 months after a horribly terrible start that saw me bringing her home feeding her with a syringe for a week. My dogged determination pulled us thru. I breastfed my 2nd (now 4) for only 3 months after the pressure from life's schedule at the time conflicted with nursing & I gave in to the "ease" of bottlefeeding. I've also hated that I did that to this day.

So when I was pregnant with this little one, I worked hard to clear out my life of all obligations that would interfere with my giving my baby my full attention for nursing... however, I never counted on all these issues, NONE of which I experienced with my other two. Having done it with my 2nd child... I am just SO freakin' tempted to hit the bottle & give up this fight.

Any advice & encouragement would be so greatly appreciated right now!

[Super~Single~Mama]

!!! You can do it!

I can't help you with thrush, but I had a very fast and forceful letdown at first too. What really helped us wasn't pumping through it - that seemed to make it worse since it increased my supply. What I did instead was nurse laying down - Then Lincoln would just let the milk he couldn't swallow run out of the side of his mouth. No more choking! BUT - put a burp cloth under her head so that you don't soak your sheets!

I hope someone else chimes in about the thrush - keep up the great work!!!! You're doing so well, it will get easier!

[kjenkins55]

Hang in there!

You're such a good mommy for perservering through all of the issues and frustration! It takes a strong woman to deal with curveball after curveball and not give up. I can't really offer any advice, as this is my first baby and I'm basically exclusively pumping for lots of reasons, but I just want to offer any encouragement I can. I had recurrent thrush as well, for about the first 10 weeks of my now 13 week old's life. I also during this time went through not one but three bouts of mastitis, along with the thrush..and boy howdy did I want to give up! Dealing with breastfeeding complications is by far worse than childbirth, imo. Three courses of Diflucan and intramuscular antibiotics later, I hope the worst is behind me- what keeps me going is that bmilk is by far the best thing for my baby! Anyone can buy formula, but only I can produce the perfect nourishment for her.

With the thrush, I'm sure you've tried everything, but I found that keeping my nipples as dry as possible ( ie no lanolin and changing pads often) and using lotrimin myself from time to time really helped. Sometimes I'd just go braless to give them some air ( around the house where it didn't matter if I leaked all over the place).

I don't think there's anything wrong with the bottle, but if you want to keep going ( and it totally sounds like you do ) then know that you can do it! What a dedicated mama you are!

[nudhistbudhist]

I haven't had thrush either but I have a habit of being topless at home and outside (in the summer, its -15 out now) on our farm. I've heard lots of sugar in your diet can encourage it, but I'm not positive on that one. As for the overactive letdown, I experienced that in the beginning, and it got better with time. In the meantime, you could try hand expressing just a bit onto a cloth first, just to get the pressure off, side-lying nursing, and offering the same breast twice in a row. Smaller more frequent feedings also worked for me.

Hang in there! This too shall pass I went through two really tough periods breastfeeding... the first 3 weeks were H**L with cracked, bleeding blistered nipples, and then breastfeeding while pregnant, I went through a period where it hurt SOOOO much I was screaming into a pillow everytime he latched But I kept with it and my hormones settled down, and now its fine, though I don't have much milk left. DS has been nursing now for 14 months

Just think, I can do this one more time, and the next time, just one more time... until the hard part passes. You're doing great mama!!!

[crazydiamond]

After the thrush went away the 2nd time, did you stop the probiotics? If you did, keep taking them! And don't forget, you may need to do a much higher dose than what's on the label - at least 2-3 times.

BTW, DD and I had to take them continually for the first 6 mos of her life or the thrush would come back immediately. I learned my lesson the hard way but eventually figured out that as long as we both took tons of probiotics, the yeast stayed away.

[CheriK]

Oh my goodness, what a rought time you're having! You're an amazing Mama to persevere even through all of this. And you've kept trying even though you haven't had an easy time breastfeeding any of your children. You're doing great!

I'm wondering if you've ever really resolved the thrush, or if it's just improved with treatment and then returned once treatment stopped. Have you read Dr. Jack Newman's thrush resources? http://www.kellymom.com/newman/c-candida_protocol.html is a good place to start. There are lots of resources for thrush, so don't give up - it is beatable! Definitely keep up the probiotics for both you and baby, go topless whenever possible at home, change bra pads frequently (and don't use the disposable ones with plastic backing which keep your nipples moist), avoid nipple cremes/lanolin, rinse nipples with water after feeding. How's your diet? Reducing sugars and eliminating simple sugars as much as possible will likely help. Increase fermented foods (saurkraut, yogurt, kefer, etc.) for the probiotics. Make sure both you and baby are treated for at least a week beyond any signs of thrush.

As far as the overactive letdown, can you un-latch your baby when your let down starts and catch the fast flow in a bottle/diaper? Subsequent letdowns are usually much easier for baby to handle. Nursing up-hill can help (lean back in a recliner, or nurse while laying down in bed with baby on top of your chest), or nurse with baby upright in a sling. Nursing more frequently so your breasts don't get as full. Are you nursing on both sides at each feeding? If you've got an oversupply of milk as well, it can help to nurse only on one side each feeding or even one side for several feedings. Pumping will stimulate your milk supply and can actually make the problem worse.

[Heba]

Ditto the suggestion of uphill nursing; you might like to look up Biological Nurturing http://www.biologicalnurturing.com/Pages/howtodoit.html or Baby-Led Attachment www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/bla.html .

Re the thrush, were you both treated simultaneously? If not, it can definitely be passed back and forth. Even if one of you is asymptomatic, you both definitely need to be treated. You've had some great advice on general anti-thrush measures. You might also like to note that Miconazole has been found to be more reliable and effective (and quicker to take effect!) than Nystatin - cream for mum's nipples and gel for baby (although this is not available in some parts of the world, and not recommended for babies under 4 months in some parts of the world due to possible choking). Gentian Violet and Grapefruit Seed Extract (www.drjaygordon.com/development/bf/thrush.asp) have also been found to be very effective.

Good luck, and hang in there!

Love
Heba

[sherri_b]

Thank you all!

First of all THANK YOU ALL so much for your kind & encouraging words!
I also found the "Battling Thrus Support Thread" and have just been so blessed here on MDC thru this...

Originally Posted by thyra

!!! You can do it!

I can't help you with thrush, but I had a very fast and forceful letdown at first too. What really helped us wasn't pumping through it - that seemed to make it worse since it increased my supply. What I did instead was nurse laying down...

Thanks for that suggestion! You are right... it doesn't seem nearly as bad when I'm lying down, which is how I nurse her last thing at night & first thing in the morning.

Originally Posted by nudhistbudhist

Just think, I can do this one more time, and the next time, just one more time... until the hard part passes. You're doing great mama!!!

Oh, that is JUST what I needed to hear... you are SO right! One feeding at a time...

Originally Posted by crazydiamond

After the thrush went away the 2nd time, did you stop the probiotics? If you did, keep taking them! And don't forget, you may need to do a much higher dose than what's on the label - at least 2-3 times.

I did! I have since read that I shouldn't have stopped... :-( Oh well! But now I'm reading that if I take Grapefruit Seed Extract (per Dr. Newman's protocol) that I shouldn't take probiotics simultaneously... Any thoughts on that??

Originally Posted by CheriK

I'm wondering if you've ever really resolved the thrush, or if it's just improved with treatment and then returned once treatment stopped. Have you read Dr. Jack Newman's thrush resources? http://www.kellymom.com/newman/c-candida_protocol.html is a good place to start.

Thank you for pointing me to Dr. Newman! I think I had seen his information before, but when I went to my Lactation Consultant and she started us on our scripts, I guess I just quit trying to find solutions on my own... This time it is going to be different.

Originally Posted by CheriK

As far as the overactive letdown, can you un-latch your baby when your let down starts and catch the fast flow in a bottle/diaper? Subsequent letdowns are usually much easier for baby to handle. Nursing up-hill can help (lean back in a recliner, or nurse while laying down in bed with baby on top of your chest), or nurse with baby upright in a sling. Nursing more frequently so your breasts don't get as full. Are you nursing on both sides at each feeding? If you've got an oversupply of milk as well, it can help to nurse only on one side each feeding or even one side for several feedings. Pumping will stimulate your milk supply and can actually make the problem worse.

Well, I had the pumping suggested to me as an immediate solution but was warned that if I kept it up for too long my supply would actually increase! So... we've stopped that... I thinky my supply is evening out & have had suggested to me that perhaps my baby went thru a growth spurt (she did gain 3 lbs. in 4 wks. time) and that could have caused a temporary over supply...

Originally Posted by Heba

Re the thrush, were you both treated simultaneously? You might also like to note that Miconazole has been found to be more reliable and effective (and quicker to take effect!) than Nystatin - cream for mum's nipples and gel for baby (although this is not available in some parts of the world, and not recommended for babies under 4 months in some parts of the world due to possible choking). Gentian Violet and Grapefruit Seed Extract (www.drjaygordon.com/development/bf/thrush.asp) have also been found to be very effective.

You've pretty much just described what I'm doing for now this time around... per Dr. Newman's protocol.
Although... funny story... when I went to the market that sells gentian violet, the clerk handed me something called "gentian lutea," which is NOT the same thing! LOL So, I'm a little delayed on getting started on that.

I know another "Thank You" may be redundant... but I can't help but to say THANK YOU so much for taking time to read my tale and to leave me such great suggestions and wonderful encouragement! You really don't know what ya'll have done for me...