Please delete

[lilypad08]

Please delete this thread for confidentiality reasons. Thank you!

[GuildJenn]

I think my posts today are going to be repetitive but here goes.

First, it is hard. Hugs to you.

Second, I think you should really consider what your issues are with a centre. It sounds to me a bit like you are making the perfect the enemy of the good here. When you eliminate a whole category of childcare wholesale you really do change your options a lot. That's fine - you're the parent. But I think it's worth the time to consider whether you're sort of cutting yourself off at the knees without actually going and looking into it. There are centres and then there are centres. In our case a small Montessori was so far from institutional that we have been very happy.

Why I say that... I guess when I read that you identified your child's care providers as a SAHM rather than an experienced provider I thought... maybe you are stressing yourself out looking for a "non-professional" environment. But your stressors - TV and CIO - are things that might not be an issue if you were looking at more business-y care options like a centre or an experienced in-home care provider, with a real contract and a curriculum and everything.

I would try starting your search over by looking in the areas you didn't look before; you might find a hidden gem. It is hard.

I'd also see if you can find some on-campus mums who might have experience to share.

[lilypad08]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I think my posts today are going to be repetitive but here goes.

First, it is hard. Hugs to you.

Second, I think you should really consider what your issues are with a centre. It sounds to me a bit like you are making the perfect the enemy of the good here. When you eliminate a whole category of childcare wholesale you really do change your options a lot. That's fine - you're the parent. But I think it's worth the time to consider whether you're sort of cutting yourself off at the knees without actually going and looking into it. There are centres and then there are centres. In our case a small Montessori was so far from institutional that we have been very happy.

Why I say that... I guess when I read that you identified your child's care providers as a SAHM rather than an experienced provider I thought... maybe you are stressing yourself out looking for a "non-professional" environment. But your stressors - TV and CIO - are things that might not be an issue if you were looking at more business-y care options like a centre or an experienced in-home care provider, with a real contract and a curriculum and everything.

I would try starting your search over by looking in the areas you didn't look before; you might find a hidden gem. It is hard.

I'd also see if you can find some on-campus mums who might have experience to share.

GuildJenn, Thank you very much for your ideas. I am hesitant to state my concerns about centers because I don’t want to offend people that use them, but here are my concerns:
-We are delaying vaccinations and we cloth diaper. Most centers will not accept these things.
-I don’t like the high child:caregiver ratio at daycares.
-I have met 3 people who used to work in daycares. All 3 said that after seeing what goes on there that they would never put their child in one. Now I hope that I just happened to run into a few who had bad experiences and that this is not representative of all daycares, but it makes me nervous.
-All 3 people I know that worked in daycare centers said that they “got yelled at” if they held the babies too much. I am into attachment parenting, so I don’t like that.
-No centers here serve organic foods. They do not even serve whole grains or fresh fruits/vegetables, just canned (I don’t like canned b/c of BPA).
-Most centers in our area have a waiting list of at least a year. There are no small Montessori or similar daycares near us for DD’s age range.

[JL83]

I went with a center for all the reasons you are having trouble with private care.

1) CIO - they just can't do that in a daycare. Even the ones that aren't "anti-CIO" can't do it with 8+ kids in the room. It would keep the other kids up or wake them up. They might do things differently than you do - but kids are really flexible and seem to adapt well. My DD started at 20 months. Until that point she'd only ever gone for a nap in the sling (and then we'd put her down). I called her first day about 15 minutes into naptime and the director (who's office was right next to their room with a door and window into the little toddler's room) looked in and saw that she was asleep. I knew from being there that if any of the kids in that room were crying I would have heard it over the phone in the office.

2) trust - when you have 1 person alone with your kids you have to trust them. It sounds like you, and I, have trouble with that idea. There are enough people around in a center that you can get a really good feel for the "Truth" by talking to lots of different people. Things slip out sometimes (like they'd changed how they were giving DD her soother - so they wanted her to ask for it rather than just giving it to her and didn't think this was something they needed to tell me about) where they probably wouldn't in a private setting.

3) I found a center that does good food. All bread and pasta is whole grain. I would say that 90% of the fruit is fresh. They do used canned (in juice) in the winter for variety. But they get it in large quantities so it comes in large glass jars.

4) Your DD is a toddler. She's not just a baby anymore. I think that your concern about not being held is important for little babies. But, from what I've seen, with your DD's age, it's likely for a staff member to sit on the floor with 2 or 3 kids in her lap and read stories or sing songs. The kids who want the physical closeness seem to get it. (DD used to smell like other people's shampoo/body washes at the end of the day - which meant that she had been in close contact with them.) But they also have so much to do, that they are pretty happy to just play.

5) look around... We found a center that uses better ratios than the ones that are regulated. They put 3 staff in the toddler room (19mo to 3y) with 12 kids even though they only "need" to have 2 staff. They mainly do it with a float system which is awesome. There are 2 permanent staff in each room, and then a couple of floats who spend the busy parts of the day in the rooms. This morning I dropped DD off (she's in the 3-4yo room now) and there were 2 staff and 3 kids in the room. 'Not for profit' centers will be your best bet. The center we chose also has mainly people with the full 2 year ECE degree. They are committed to teaching the kids and helping them grow. Sometimes it feels like I'm in the middle of a "How to talk so your kids will listen, and how to listen so your kids will talk" book promotion...

"Jonny, I'm worried that you are going to fall and hurt yourself when you stand on the table. Please get down. I am going to help you get down so that your feet are on the floor."

"Please use your walking feet. Thank you"

My only other suggestion is to keep trying to find mom friends where you like their parenting.

If you do go with a center, feel free to spend time there. I spend a good 15 minutes every morning when I drop her off. She doesn't need me to stay that long, but I just watch and chat with the staff. They know me as a person rather than just as DD's mom. I also plan to spend ~15 minutes when I pick her up. Not all of that's in the room, but that's saying hi and good-bye to the directors and reading things in the hall. I've done this for 18 months.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Hilary9

GuildJenn, Thank you very much for your ideas. I am hesitant to state my concerns about centers because I don’t want to offend people that use them, but here are my concerns:
-We are delaying vaccinations and we cloth diaper. Most centers will not accept these things.
-I don’t like the high child:caregiver ratio at daycares.
-I have met 3 people who used to work in daycares. All 3 said that after seeing what goes on there that they would never put their child in one. Now I hope that I just happened to run into a few who had bad experiences and that this is not representative of all daycares, but it makes me nervous.
-All 3 people I know that worked in daycare centers said that they “got yelled at” if they held the babies too much. I am into attachment parenting, so I don’t like that.
-No centers here serve organic foods. They do not even serve whole grains or fresh fruits/vegetables, just canned (I don’t like canned b/c of BPA).
-Most centers in our area have a waiting list of at least a year. There are no small Montessori or similar daycares near us for DD’s age range.

That does make it difficult.

It really sounds like you have a tough balance to try to reach; I'm sure care that you would be happy with is out there but it may take a bit of time to find it.

FWIW our centre would not have be in conflict with most of your points here; their catering is really quite good although not organic but all whole-grain, fresh, etc., and that kind of thing. I do know people who have had bad experiences working in centres, but my sister was a nanny and she was death on nannies, so I kind of suspect anyone in a particular field gets to know the horror stories.

[emilysmama]

Hang in there

When you are worried about daycare, you can't concentrate on anything. And you're right, because when you are working on your Ph.D., you really need to concentrate. I didn't have children or marry until after I received my Ph.D., so I didn't have to experience both stressors simultaneously like you, but I did have to deal with them one at a time.

I wanted to suggest that you go in with an open mind. My (almost 6 year old) daughter has been in an enormous institutional day care center (there must be a hundred children in the day care) since she has been 6 months old, and they are the most accomodating caregivers I have ever seen.

Essentially, anything I asked them to do, they were willing to give a try, and in every case they ended up doing it long term. Some of the things I asked them to do required us to put our heads together to brainstorm, but we made it work because the center's leadership made the child's needs the number one priority. Let me give you some examples. What it boils down to is: if you don't ask, you don't get.

My daughter's daycare doesn't do cloth diapers. In fact, it says so right in their handbook. The state licensing regulations even forbid them. So I asked them to try cloth diapers for my daughter for a couple weeks. (I also looked at the regulation's wording and figured out a loophole.) They ended up doing cloth diapers the entire time my daughter was in diapers, for years.

I told the daycare that my daughter should eat only food brought from home. Every other parent just had their kids eat the center's food, and no one had ever asked otherwise before me. They did it.

I told them that my daughter should not watch screens of any sort: TV, DVD, computer. No other parent ever even brought up the issue. They did it, and my daughter never even knew, because they simply distracted her.

I told them that when they gave the children candy for rewards or spontaneous treats or as part of a learning unit, my daughter was not to get any candy. They used stickers, and somehow they managed to distract her so that she didn't feel left out or singled out.

When my daughter was a toddler, I noticed that the day care staff held the children less. This did disturb me. I wondered if this was a requirement, or if the toddlers were getting too heavy to pick up, or what is going on? Then I talked to the lead teacher for the toddlers, and she said that some parents prefer that their toddlers cry without being picked up. (I know, not what I would want either, but it made me realize that different parents have different needs.) So I instructed the lead teacher to tell all the caregivers that if my daughter cried, then she must be picked up and held. After that, no problem. My daughter got lots of loving and hugging and holding. So constant communication is key.

I can't address the delayed vaccinations, because we always did the vaccination, but I'm sure there has to be some way for it to work, even in a day care center setting. You can probably just look up the actual state regulation, and read it carefully to try to find a loophole.

So I encourage to ask each day care your tough questions.

Good luck.

[JL83]

I want to mention the cloth diapers thing.

It wasn't mentioned on the website, and all the previous daycares I'd asked about them said no.

But the one we chose said that as long as it wasn't "more" work for the teachers they would go along with it. It was very simple. I provided a stack of 10 fitted diapers on Monday with a bunch of extra covers. They dealt with the dirty/wet diapers like they did with disposables which was to put them in a grocery bag, and then instead of throwing that out they put it in my wetbag. I took those home every night and brought the same number in each morning.

When DD was in underwear full time at 22 month, they were all impressed and laughed that it was for sure way LESS work.

[annekevdbroek]

Oh that does sound tough. I am going through some childcare woes myself. I will say that I've had my kids in both at-home and 'institutional' childcare, and am now working on a nanny arrangements. None of them are perfect. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I think the trick is to prioritize what issues are most important to you - e.g. no cry it out, no tv vs. organic food and cloth diapers and figure out what setting is most likely to meet your needs. You may need to visit a lot of centers. I personally have been very happy with the large centers - it's been a great experience for my kids. Right now the nanny works better for us due to logisitical and schedeuling challenges. Likely there will be no perfect setting, but there will be one that is very very good where your little one is happy and thriving and well cared for. And then you can get on with finishing your PhD. I would also say that you should try very hard to not take time off to change care arrangements. Just look for one and make the change - don't pull your daughter out of where she is now, have her at home for a few weeks, then start some where new. If you go from one care arrangement directly to another it will be fewer transitions for her and easier I think on your schedule.

[GoestoShow]

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Edited by GoestoShow - 1/3/11 at 11:59am

[lilypad08]

Thanks so much everyone for the ideas and the support! It is too bad there are not better centers in the area where I live. But it is good to hear that at least some centers make accomodations. There's a lot of competition for centers around here... you pretty much have to get on a waitlist when you find out you're pregnant, although I have heard it is easier to get in to the older age groups.

And thanks for the idea to check out licensed home daycares. I had visited a few back in July and August, and none were a good fit, but different ones might have openings now since it's been a couple months, so I will check into those again.

I feel so frustrated that I made a bad decision with the childcare in the first place, especially after I stressed SO much about the decision in the first place. I just hope that DD adjusts well when we move... I had really wanted to avoid changing caregivers.

[nina_yyc]

The wait for a daycare centre is the same around here.

Don't automatically eliminate unlicensed day homes. There is a wide range of parenting styles and professionalism out there. Check out the 'finding good childcare' sticky and interview, interview, interview. I interviewed six and was very up-front about what I expected in terms of food, screen time, support for breastfeeding, and handling of naps.

We found a great in-home provider - not perfect, but very, very good. She is not licensed but happened to be a former nanny with ECE training, 1st aid, and a police background check on file.

[Girlprof]

Our "center" would have no problem meeting every one of your demands. Indeed, there is no TV or any other screen available except once a year for homecoming when they have some older kids (it's a university-based daycare/preschool). Kids mostly bring their own food. There is no CIO for reasons stated by others. Oh, a 3 to 1 ratio for children under 3, but they only take five babies for five teachers so for babies, there is always someone available. It's actually in the handbook that cloth diapers are allowed and one family currently uses them. The teachers aren't enthusiastic about it, but they do it w/o any real problem.

I would look around and ask, ask, ask. Our place is incredibly hard to get into, but there are also sometimes mid-semester openings, especially for older kids. My husband is on the board and I know they sometimes LEAP at someone willing to start on the non-regular schedule because otherwise they are out the money (this is a small cooperative).

It's a pretty big deal to give up a graduate program. Not to say there aren't valid reasons for doing so - lots and lots of people don't finish the PhD. But if you are thinking of stopping because of lack of childcare rather than lack of interest in your subject, I would try to keep going at least a bit longer.

[lilypad08]

Originally Posted by Girlprof

Our "center" would have no problem meeting every one of your demands. Indeed, there is no TV or any other screen available except once a year for homecoming when they have some older kids (it's a university-based daycare/preschool). Kids mostly bring their own food. There is no CIO for reasons stated by others. Oh, a 3 to 1 ratio for children under 3, but they only take five babies for five teachers so for babies, there is always someone available. It's actually in the handbook that cloth diapers are allowed and one family currently uses them. The teachers aren't enthusiastic about it, but they do it w/o any real problem.

I would look around and ask, ask, ask. Our place is incredibly hard to get into, but there are also sometimes mid-semester openings, especially for older kids. My husband is on the board and I know they sometimes LEAP at someone willing to start on the non-regular schedule because otherwise they are out the money (this is a small cooperative).

It's a pretty big deal to give up a graduate program. Not to say there aren't valid reasons for doing so - lots and lots of people don't finish the PhD. But if you are thinking of stopping because of lack of childcare rather than lack of interest in your subject, I would try to keep going at least a bit longer.

Yes, I would be really, really upset to give up those 4 years of work, not to mention watch my career go down the drain.

Wow, I sure wish we had centers with 1:3 ratios, whole grains, fresh produce, cloth diapering, etc. Here in Chapel Hill, NC, the best ratio you can find is 1:4, and those centers are quite hard to find. The only exception is a center that is part of a UNC research center and is partially subsidized by the school. I think that because there are so few centers relative to spots needed here, the centers have no incentive to improve; if someone doesn't like it, there are plenty of other people lined up to get in.

And Nina, you have a good point about unlicensed home daycares/SAHMs too... I am still including those in my search, although I need to make sure it is a better match next time.

Thank you for all the ideas.

[madskye]

I have to say, I'm surprized by your last post. Reading your other posts, I got the impression that you really didn't want to finish (or you'd at least like to take a few years off).

My experience has been that no situation is perfect. No daycare will be perfect, no friend watching my child will be perfect, no earthmother home daycare situation will be perfect, my trying to be sahm wasn't perfect...and that even if places seem to match up to my requirements on paper, the reality doesn't always jive with the words. (Yes, it's all organic, but the kids are still eating organic cheeto's or some such when you walk in!) The best that I've been able to do is find places that I felt comfortable with, where my DD was obviously happy. She was at her first daycare for 3 years, we started when she was 10 weeks old! (And let me tell you--she was held pretty much constantly, and this was at a large "institutional" center.) She was really happy there as a baby, and I felt good about it. We loved that place, until she moved into the preschool and then I felt like the supervision in the older rooom wasn't adequate anymore, and that she needed a more structured environment. We moved over to new school where she has been really stimulated and she obviously loves it.

We all want the best for our babies, but when I read your posts I really felt like you are setting yourself up for not continuing on with your work, because you seem to be really focused on things that are really difficult to get around. No, most caregiver situations are not going to be organic. (You can find places where you send the food in though) To stress about whether the caregiver ration is 3-1 or 4-1...well, I understand why you want 3-1, but I think it really comes down to what that DCP can handle. One person might not be able to handle 3, but another might be able to handle 4 and keep them all happy to boot.

I would visit some centers and other at home providers who are more professional and let them know what you are looking for specifically, but also open your mind to more general things like the feeling of the place, do the other children there seem happy, do the teachers seem patient, are there any parents there you can talk to/do people spontaneously recommend places to you, how cooperative is the administrator/owner to your specific requests (because attitude usually trickles down).

Sorry to write you a book! I wish you the best and hope you can find a situation that works so you do get to finish your degree.

[txbikegrrl]

Not trying to be snarky, but can you give on some of those like cloth diapers and/or organic food? I suffered through a horrible graduate program (pre-child) and sometimes think about changing careers (psych is not all it's cracked up to be much of the time) but can't imagine not finishing. At least I have something to fall back on. And for me personally it would be very painful to pay off loans and not have a degree. Maybe it's different for you because you can still work in the field without completing?

[nnaemeka]

hey there! just wanted to add:

i'm a 6th Phd-er with a 15 month in a daycare center. and i thank the gods for them! they never did cloth diapers before: i asked, brought in a small trash can with a lid, bring in three or four diapers everyday, and its fine. i also bring in my dd's wholesome lunch and hemp milk everyday. we shared some giggles on the hemp milk and its all good. i think the ratio is 1/3 or 1/4 and you know they have extra back up people as well as student volunteers and i know my little one is happy and loved. i don't love every single DCP in the infant room but there two women that keep me in awe as they are so calm, gentle, fun and loving with all the babies. whatever the case though my DH and i might have a complaint here or there, i know my peanut is safe and cared for and having fun with her (diverse set of )friends everyday. so much so that she's been crying when i come to pick her up and take her home!

as the pp have said, you won't find perfection but keep on looking and you will find something that works. i never imagined dd at a regular daycare center but it has worked for us and given me the time to teach and at least try and write.

remember to breathe! and take one step at a time!

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by madskye

I have to say, I'm surprized by your last post. Reading your other posts, I got the impression that you really didn't want to finish (or you'd at least like to take a few years off).

My experience has been that no situation is perfect. No daycare will be perfect, no friend watching my child will be perfect, no earthmother home daycare situation will be perfect, my trying to be sahm wasn't perfect...and that even if places seem to match up to my requirements on paper, the reality doesn't always jive with the words. (Yes, it's all organic, but the kids are still eating organic cheeto's or some such when you walk in!) The best that I've been able to do is find places that I felt comfortable with, where my DD was obviously happy. She was at her first daycare for 3 years, we started when she was 10 weeks old! (And let me tell you--she was held pretty much constantly, and this was at a large "institutional" center.) She was really happy there as a baby, and I felt good about it. We loved that place, until she moved into the preschool and then I felt like the supervision in the older rooom wasn't adequate anymore, and that she needed a more structured environment. We moved over to new school where she has been really stimulated and she obviously loves it.

We all want the best for our babies, but when I read your posts I really felt like you are setting yourself up for not continuing on with your work, because you seem to be really focused on things that are really difficult to get around. No, most caregiver situations are not going to be organic. (You can find places where you send the food in though) To stress about whether the caregiver ration is 3-1 or 4-1...well, I understand why you want 3-1, but I think it really comes down to what that DCP can handle. One person might not be able to handle 3, but another might be able to handle 4 and keep them all happy to boot.

I would visit some centers and other at home providers who are more professional and let them know what you are looking for specifically, but also open your mind to more general things like the feeling of the place, do the other children there seem happy, do the teachers seem patient, are there any parents there you can talk to/do people spontaneously recommend places to you, how cooperative is the administrator/owner to your specific requests (because attitude usually trickles down).

Sorry to write you a book! I wish you the best and hope you can find a situation that works so you do get to finish your degree.

:

[Inquiringmind]

I'm in your general area and we just visited several centers to get on waitlists (yes, they are that long). However, we asked each of them about cloth diapering and most of them said that they either had students who did or that they would be willing to. One couldn't give us an answer right away and said they'd have to check.
Good luck!

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

Second, I think you should really consider what your issues are with a centre. It sounds to me a bit like you are making the perfect the enemy of the good here. When you eliminate a whole category of childcare wholesale you really do change your options a lot. That's fine - you're the parent. But I think it's worth the time to consider whether you're sort of cutting yourself off at the knees without actually going and looking into it. There are centres and then there are centres. In our case a small Montessori was so far from institutional that we have been very happy.

Why I say that... I guess when I read that you identified your child's care providers as a SAHM rather than an experienced provider I thought... maybe you are stressing yourself out looking for a "non-professional" environment. But your stressors - TV and CIO - are things that might not be an issue if you were looking at more business-y care options like a centre or an experienced in-home care provider, with a real contract and a curriculum and everything.

i agree with all of this. OP, i have been almost exactly where you are, with a situation DD was pretty happy in but i wasn't. DCP ended up letting her CIO against my wishes, and even though DD recovered quickly, that planted the seed that ultimately undid us. the DCP ended up firing us because i wanted DD, who was 15 months, to continue rear-facing, and apparently that was just too difficult to deal with, and i was being unreasonable

i went with another DCP, in a small in-home licensed center, when i had sworn up and down i didn't want that kind of place--turns out it is wonderful. they don't CIO at all (can't, it would wake all the other kids up), very minimal TV, and though the food isn't all that great, i could send my own if i wanted to.

i am also in a PhD program (6th year, dissertating), and before i found this very great DCP, i too was thinking i needed to just drop out. the problem was, and i now realize, i wasn't happy with my childcare situation. once i was, things got a lot easier. sure, being the dissertating mother to a toddler is still quite challenging, but soooo much more doable now that i have a childcare situation that i feel 100% confident in.

keep looking. look at places you thought you weren't interested in. examine all of your options. there is something out there for you!

[MacKinnon]

I just want to add a plug in the "not all centers are bad" category. We have several around here I just can't fathom how they are still open, they are awful. We have many that are good, decent facilities, and several that are simply outstanding. We drive about 20 miles to have DS (and DD before) in a wonderful facility that I couldn't say enough good things about. They maintain a maximum of 1 to 2 ratio in the infant rooms, 1 to 4 in the toddler rooms and 1 to 6 in the preschool rooms, all of those are half the state laws. All the lead teachers have a Bachelors or Masters in Child Development or Early Childhood Ed. many of the assistants do as well, as they are part-time mostly SAHM's working a little extra. There are no computers or TV's in the entire facility, they serve fresh fruit or veggies, plus something else at most snacks. No sugar treats even for birthdays (although this one is starting to slip a little). The playgrounds are amazingly inventive, like mini-ropes courses in the woods, with a dry "creek" and a bridge, and little houses, and a giant sand pit. They are entirely play-based and developmentally appropriate. They do scheduling in blocks of time, or by the day, or by the week, so you can get exactly what you need.

I would encourage you to look at a list of NAEYC accredited centers in your area as a starting point http://www.naeyc.org/accreditation/search