Nightweaning before child is ready?

[SollysMom]

DS is 2 years old, and we're expecting #2 in late December. We cosleep with DS and he still nurses to sleep and throughout the night. Being hugely pregnant, it's very hard on me. I have a very difficult time finding a comfortable position to night-nurse, and I often can't fall asleep until he's finished and unlatched. Plus, I don't see how I'd possibly be able to nurse him at his current rate AND a newborn during the night. DH and I have agreed that we need to nightwean and we want to do it soon so that it's well-established before the baby comes (not to mention, in case he needs to spend a night away from me while I'm at the birth center).

I've heard some people tell me stories about how they nightweaned and it really wasn't too hard on their child. In my opinion, in those cases, the children must have been "ready" and all it took was a gentle nudge from the parents. We tried to nightwean a few months ago, using the Dr. Sears method, and DS was not ready. I still nursed him to sleep, but then when we were ready for bed DH slept in our room with DS and I slept in the guest room. The first night, he cried in DH's arms for 37 minutes at the first night waking which was AWFUL, but it got better and better after that. After a week or so, he was pretty much sleeping through the night / putting himself back to sleep when he woke up. Then, we had two just awful nights in a row of over an hour of terrible crying. The second night, it was going on an hour and a half, DS wouldn't stay in bed with DH, wouldn't let DH hold him, was running around the room, banging his head on the wall, DH was at his breaking point, so I finally just went in and took him and he fell asleep immediately (without even nursing). So we decided then and there that he just wasn't ready, and we backed off for a while.

Now, though, whether he's ready or not, it NEEDS to be done. I don't know what to do because I know if we make the decision, we have to just stick with it no matter how hard it is. We can't keep sending mixed messages and I don't want to put him through any hardship if we're not going to reach our goal anyway. I just don't know if we can deal with all that crying again. It's not like we're letting him CIO alone, he has DH to comfort him, but it's still so heartbreaking for us. I've read Dr. Gordon's method, I've read NCSS, and I just don't know what we should do.

If anyone has any tips for how to nightwean with the minimal amount of tears/trauma, I would really appreciate it. Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Blessed_Bess]

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, just wanted to send a sympathetic

Though I'm not pregnant, my almost 2-yr-old still nurses to sleep and throughout the night and is not ready to stop either. I have MS and am often more exhausted than a "normal" mom of a toddler and need all the sleep I can get. I've tried the NCSS method of nightweaning too, but haven't gotten gung-ho about it..
I can definitely see the urgency in your situation and wish you, your LO and DH the best of luck. Sorry I don't have any advice!

[mamakaikai]

It is hard isn't it? This is how we've made it (sort of) work. Maybe some of it could work for you? Maybe not!

We got our dd a toddler bed. We've always co-slept, but she goes to bed at 7:30 and we go around 11pm. So we're not co-sleeping at that time. She loved her new bed. We didn't push the idea. She took to it and it worked. It meant that she didn't wake when we went to bed. Which is at least 1 less night feeding. She normally climbs into our bed in the night sometime around 2-5 am. She would have normally *needed* to feed at least 2 more times by then when we all went to bed in the same bed.

Instead of curling up in bed to nurse, we start the bedtime routine, bath->pyjamas->nursing sitting up->brush teeth->books
We've told her that this is her bedtime milkies and that when it is done we will just cuddle and read books. She seems mostly totally fine with this. Her compromise, is to fall asleep with her hand on my chest. That's fine with me. She falls asleep cuddled to me knowing the milkies are still there.

We remind her each night that the milkies go dodo too, and that she can have milk again for breakfast. She complained about it at first, but as long as she could hold them, it was ok. After some time, she got used to it.

In the night once she's in our bed again, if she wants milk, I remind her that they need to sleep. It works even better when I tell her that there is no milk now, but that mama is making more so that there will be some in time for breakfast. I sometimes need to distract her with a story I make up. She often drifts off quickly.

When she persist, we offer water. We get up our of bed and walk around and rock her. Show her the moon. Anything to lovingly snap her out of her *need* for milk. She often goes back to sleep within 5-10 minutes.

Sometimes when she really persists, we bring her to the kitchen and she devours food. She was really, really hungry. She had reason to be so needy.

Mostly, we've tweaked her routine lovingly and consistently and she is getting used to it.

I think a cold turkey change of plans and plain saying "no milk" would have been extremely hard on her. She was, is not ready to willingly give up her night milk. But she is doing surprisingly well. And at least we've significantly reduced her nightnursing.

Best of luck to you and yours!

[surfamy]

Hi there!

I can totally sympathize with you. I also would heartily support your need to nightwean your ds before new baby gets here.

My dd2 was born when dd1 was 2 years old. I had tried (half heartedly) to night wean when she was around 18 months old, but as soon as she got a cold, it was out the window. So, when baby was born, I was still night nursing dd1 several times a night. It was so exhausting running between newborn and toddler. I finally in desperation night weaned her at 28 months. I think she was ready then and it only took a a couple nights of crying on and off to get her to sleep (with me next to her). I will add that she was really MAD. Somehow, I could deal with mad better than sad or desperate. If she was begging me or whimpering or something I would have given it up.

Ok, on to the advice part. I say cold turkey is the best way. Nurse to sleep, then say milkies go night night till the sun comes up. The Jay Gordon method I think is good for younger babies who will get hungry during the night, but for older kids, I think they have the ability to get the sun thing and make it through the night without the milk. Let him pick out a fun sippy cup to have water in if he is thirsty during the night. Talk to him about it a lot and get him geared up for it. For me, since I was nursing two, I told dd1 that my "moes" were feeling owie and they needed to rest at night. I let her put band aids on me so she could help and then reminded her about it at night.

One thing I might suggest is that you do the night weaning yourself. If ds is used to you comforting him back to sleep, then he may be upset that he is losing both the milk and you at night. Maybe when the night weaning is established, you can then transition to dh doing the comforting. Just a thought.

Also, remember that there will be setbacks in nightweaning and you might have to periodically have to re-nightwean after sickness, molars, big jumps in growth and speech etc.

Last I want to say, don't feel guilty for night weaning him. You are still giving him your love and comfort just in a different way. It is the natural progression of things. Hang in there! Good luck mama! And congrats!

[SollysMom]

Thank you so much for all the replies.

Originally Posted by surfamy

One thing I might suggest is that you do the night weaning yourself. If ds is used to you comforting him back to sleep, then he may be upset that he is losing both the milk and you at night. Maybe when the night weaning is established, you can then transition to dh doing the comforting. Just a thought.

I keep going back and forth on this. As illustrated by our last failed attempt at nightweaning, DS really did just want my presence and (that first night) just fell asleep without nursing once I took him. But, most of the time if I'm there he will just paw at my shirt and breasts until I give in and nurse him. Even now it's a struggle to not let him twiddle my other nipple while he nurses on one side - which has made my skin crawl ever since I've been pregnant. DH swears it's (usually) easier for him to comfort DS back to sleep if I'm not there at all.

I've thought about trying the "nursies are sleeping" approach or "you can nurse when the sun comes up" but DS isn't terribly verbal and so I worry how much of it he would understand. He does say a lot of words, but not necessarily to communicate, if that makes any sense.

Thanks again for all the helpful replies.

[surfamy]

Hi Sollysmom!

Sorry it took me so long to reply back again. Hard to get on the computer with a 2 year old and 4 year old underfoot!

We do all of the things that mamakaikai does at night also (except we nurse to sleep), but my kids were not able to understand that sometimes you could get milk at night, but sometimes not. We coslept till about 18 months, then I put my dd2 in her own bed. When she wakes I go into her bed and help her back to sleep. Before I would nurse her back to sleep and now we snuggle back to sleep.

Sometimes my 2 year old is actually hungry and she can have a cheese stick or a cup of cow milk and this helps her resettle. DD1 at this age could make it to the dawn, but my younger dd, ends up nursing at 5 a.m. each day, which is fine with me.

Ug, hate nipple twiddling. I usually press my forearm against my other nipple while the kids are nursing to prevent them from even touching it.

With regards to the pawing at your shirt, I can totally relate to this. My kids were/are seriously attached to nursing. They did not want to give it up at night and definitely tried to pull my shirt off/up etc. What worked for me was putting on a sports bra and one of my husband's t-shirts. There was definitely many attempts to thwart these defenses, but you have to be lovingly firm and decide that this is it (if this is what you have decided). Like I said, mad is somehow easier to deal with than sad. When my kids are sick or actually desperate, then nightweaning goes out the window.

I know what you mean about dh being better able to comfort your child when you aren't around. As soon as my kids see me, there isn't anything that my dh can do for them. If it works for him to do the comforting, then keep on with that. If you have a bad night and end up having to nurse, don't feel like it is failing, just start over again the next night. You'll get there and your ds will eventually adjust to the new night routine.

I think that the idea that it only takes a week is probably not true for most people. It is a process that you have to keep tweaking periodically and at some point down the road you say, oh, I guess he is sleeping through the night, wow! Then they start school/get teeth/learn new words/solar flares/who knows what happens, and you go back to the drawing board

Oh, last is that no matter how verbal your ds is, he likely understands a lot of what you say. Keep talking, he'll get it.

Remember that you are important in the family (probably the most important, since mom holds up the universe!) With the new baby coming, your sleep/energy is important and your child can contribute to the well being of the family too (by sleeping.) You are helping him to do this in a loving way. Tandem nursing is a challenge, but worth it. Good luck mama!

As an aside, you may want to check out: Mothering your Nursing Toddler and Adventures in Tandem Nursing. Both helpful books.

[SollysMom]

Originally Posted by surfamy

If you have a bad night and end up having to nurse, don't feel like it is failing, just start over again the next night. You'll get there and your ds will eventually adjust to the new night routine.

This really resonated with me. So much of the mainstream advice out there says that once you make the decision, you have to stick with it so you don't give the child the message that if they fight hard enough, mom will give in and nurse. But we don't want it to be a battle of wills - he is only 2 years old and doesn't understand in the same way we do. Even if it means it takes a little longer, I think our whole family will be happier if we enter with this attitude. I just talked to DH about it and we agreed that he will be the one to make the judgement call - he'll be with DS and will be able to recognize if/when he REALLY needs me. Neither of us wants to have another night like the last time we tried.

Originally Posted by surfamy

As an aside, you may want to check out: Mothering your Nursing Toddler and Adventures in Tandem Nursing. Both helpful books.

I have read both of these. I loved Adventures in Tandem Nursing especially. Maybe I should borrow them again to reread and see if there's any other advice I missed the first time.


It's timely that you replied today surfamy, because tonight is the night we've decided to start trying again. We're going to repeat the Dr. Sears method again, but with the knowledge that I will come if DS really needs me. I plan to explain it to him during the day because as you said, even though he's not super-verbal, I think he understands at least some of what we tell him. Thanks again for the replies