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I am exhausted.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
My 8 1/2 month old baby, Nathan is having such a difficult time. I don't know what to do, but I know I can't do CIO. I went to the peditrician today to rule out any physical issues. (Didn't think there was, but had to check). She suggested CIO.

He's never slept more than 2 hours straight in his entire life. He is fully breastfed, non circed, non vaxed healthy, normal little guy. Because he is a twin, I assumed he was hungry quite often. By six months I realized his nursing sessions in the middle of the night were not for food as much as it was the only way he could fall back asleep. He suckles for 30 seconds to 2 mins and then he falls back asleep.

He wakes up every 45 mins to 1 1/2 hours screaming. It's like night terrors. And, he can not relax and fall back asleep easily. The only easy solution is the boob. He's not hungry, it's just a coping mechanism.

I'm exhausted and he disrupts the whole house with his screaming. It takes a few seconds to sit up, get the boob to him etc. That whole 10-20 seconds he screams at the top of his lungs. There is no muffled whines at first to give us the idea that he is about to wake up. He just screams. And he's not happy. He's tired. Poor baby wants to sleep. He doesn't want to play or hang out in the middle of the night, he wants to sleep, he just doesn't know how to.

He doesn't even nap well. He takes a 20-30 minute morning nap and a 45 - 1 hour afternoon nap. I realize sleep needs are different for everyone and he may not require the amount of sleep his twin or my older DS need. But he certainly needs to sleep at least 4 hours straight and feel rested.

I'm at a loss on what to do. But something has to change for all of us.
post #2 of 22
from 8-9 months was the worst sleep time for us. DS woke every 15-30 minutes all night long, plus would stay awake for 1-2 hours in the middle of the night pretty often. It was awful, I was a mess. Then, he started walking at 9 months, and it got a little better. I think it was developmental as well as teething. He is still a crappy sleeper.. Wakes on average every hour.. but it is better than it was back then. I see you have twins, is it possible to cosleep with the one that wakes so often? Just for a little while? Could it be teething pain? Have you tried Hylands Teething tablets or Motrin?

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
This is not new behavior. He's never slept more than 1 1/2 hours straight. And yes we do co-sleep with him. It's not changed anything.

I've been reading all afternoon on night terrors and I think that's the issue here.
post #4 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaK View Post
This is not new behavior. He's never slept more than 1 1/2 hours straight. And yes we do co-sleep with him. It's not changed anything.

I've been reading all afternoon on night terrors and I think that's the issue here.
Oh, ok. It could be night terrors, I know my DS has bad nightmares sometimes.. he will cry in his sleep and wake up screaming.. it is so sad.

I don't know that there is anything you can do about the nightwaking.. hopefully you will have some advice from other mamas here.
post #5 of 22
deannak i don't know how you've been coping for so long with the night waking. i am going through something similar with my 6 mo old, but it just has been the last month since he started teething. prior to that he was a "good sleeper". i would kill for those days (nights) back when he only woke once if that.
he similarly wakes up SCREAMING like at the top of his lungs and we don't know why. most times his eyes are closed too. he arches his back and squirms like he's mad or in pain. we just hold him and i usually end up nursing him b/c it's the only thing that stops his screams. we think he is done with teething for the moment, but can't be totally sure i guess. i am trying hylands tablets (just started last night and didn't notice a huge difference) but will try again tonight and let you know how it goes.
the one thing that has worked for us was cosleeping and letting him nurse whenever he woke - that allows us to sleep more but it is a habit i didn't want to create...i can not do CIO either yet i don't want to have a 1-2 year old who can't sleep on his own (not sure if that will actually happen but that is my fear).
do you nurse lying down so at least you don't have to get up and can try to keep sleeping? is the other twin a good sleeper? maybe you could talk to other multiple mamas...are they separated when they sleep now? did having them together help.
best of luck,
fellow exhausted mama
post #6 of 22
Night terrors are strange and scary. DS has them from time to time. I would be interested to know what you find out.

So sorry you're struggling. We are too, but I've never had the nursing issue. I know it is an issue covered a lot in The No Cry Sleep Solution. Have you read that book? It's not really worked for us, but makes a lot of sense.
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
I have really large boobs and it's difficult for me to side lay and nurse, so generally I sit up in bed and nurse him. Honestly, being awake doesn't bother me, its waking up so often. I never get a REM cycle. I have only had one night in the past 8 1/2 months when I got more than 4 hours and I've only had 5 nights when I got more than 3 hours straight. Seriously!

The other baby is not a great sleeper, but that's because Nathan is so loud he wakes us all up. This isn't really a twin issue (I don't think). I'm really starting to think he's got some sort of sleeping disorder.
post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisep View Post
I know it is an issue covered a lot in The No Cry Sleep Solution. Have you read that book? It's not really worked for us, but makes a lot of sense.
Read it and even emailed back and forth with the author. It didn't work for us. That was a few months back.
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaK View Post
I'm really starting to think he's got some sort of sleeping disorder.
While his waking is frequent, it is still within the realm of normal. Every 1.5-2 hours at 8 months is very normal amount of nightwaking.
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
While his waking is frequent, it is still within the realm of normal. Every 1.5-2 hours at 8 months is very normal amount of nightwaking.
Everything I read says that is not normal. I can't believe a baby that is unable to fully rest is normal. Not to mention he doesn't sleep enough hours in a 24 hour period. I doubt he gets more than 8-10 hours in a 24 hour period. That is not normal.
post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaK View Post
Everything I read says that is not normal. I can't believe a baby that is unable to fully rest is normal. Not to mention he doesn't sleep enough hours in a 24 hour period. I doubt he gets more than 8-10 hours in a 24 hour period. That is not normal.
Just curious what you have been reading that is telling you that isn't normal? I'm not saying it is widely common, either.. just that there are other babies who sleep like that (mine being one of them).

Have you looked into reflux, food allergies, ear infections, etc?

Do you have blackout curtains, white-noise, comfortable temperature?
post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
As I wrote in my earlier posts, he has no physical issues, we've been to the pediatrician to rule out ear infections, reflux (he might have had a mild case of silent reflux early on) etc. I did an elimination diet previously and it made no difference.

It's not a matter of white noise or dark enough room or temperature control. There is a much more serious issue here. Everything I read says a baby at his age should be getting approximately 14 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. I doubt my boy gets 8. I realize all babies have different needs, but he is telling me he needs more sleep and he's telling me he wants it!

I can't find anything anywhere that says sleeping 1 1/2 to 2 hours at a stretch is normal at this age. It just isn't healthy for him to never be rested. He doesn't act rested.The 45 mins to 1 1/2 hour stretches with long fuss times in between (20 mins or so) make him miserable. He is sleeping right now as I type this and has been down for 2 hours. This is a long stretch for him and I'm sure it's going to make for a happier baby all afternoon.

Bottom line is my mommy instinct is telling me something is not right.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaK View Post

Bottom line is my mommy instinct is telling me something is not right.
Do you think it's medical then? Do you have an AP supportive pedi you can go to? I think it helps your case that you have twins and one sleeps just fine - it might make the pedi look into the issue more than just dismissing it as a cosleeping problem.

As LadyCatherine says, while it might not be normal, it IS common. There are many of us on this board experiencing the 1-2 hour wakings and I'm sure we are representative of many others out there. The key difference perhaps is that my DS at least is happy during the day. I think he probably does get between 12 and 14 hours of cumulative sleep in a 24 hour period, except for a very bad night. He wakes, nurses, or needs the passy - sorry folks, or needs to be cuddled, and goes back to sleep within 5 mins. Sometimes he is awake for an hour.

You have to go with your instinct. I just don't know what the answer is other than finding a pedi you can trust to explore any medical underpinnings.

You must be very stressed, I hope you find a solution soon.
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeannaK View Post
As I wrote in my earlier posts, he has no physical issues, we've been to the pediatrician to rule out ear infections, reflux (he might have had a mild case of silent reflux early on) etc. I did an elimination diet previously and it made no difference.

It's not a matter of white noise or dark enough room or temperature control. There is a much more serious issue here. Everything I read says a baby at his age should be getting approximately 14 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period. I doubt my boy gets 8. I realize all babies have different needs, but he is telling me he needs more sleep and he's telling me he wants it!

I can't find anything anywhere that says sleeping 1 1/2 to 2 hours at a stretch is normal at this age. It just isn't healthy for him to never be rested. He doesn't act rested.The 45 mins to 1 1/2 hour stretches with long fuss times in between (20 mins or so) make him miserable. He is sleeping right now as I type this and has been down for 2 hours. This is a long stretch for him and I'm sure it's going to make for a happier baby all afternoon.

Bottom line is my mommy instinct is telling me something is not right.
well i hope you figure something out.. like I said at 8 months my DS was waking every 15-30 minutes all night, and like you I felt something was wrong, and I did a lot of searching but we never found out "why." It seemed to coincide with teething and developmental milestones. Have you read Sleepless in America? Have you tried an earlier bedtime? Does he show any other signs of possible food allergies?

ETA: http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sl...epstudies.html

check out that study on normal infant sleep.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyCatherine185 View Post
This link is awesome! Thanks so much for posting it. I think I am starting to reach the point you did of just accepting the night wakings and you're right, it does feel more peaceful.
post #16 of 22
If your Mommy gut says it is medical - then find an AP supportive ped.

That being said my DD slept about that much at that age - it happens and may not be "normal" for formula-fed infants who are studied by tests but I have met a lot of Moms who had children who rarely hit the "average" amt. of time that many of the books suggested and their children were fine.

Have you thought about one of those wedges to put him at an angle, does a swing help? Maybe one of those Amby type beds?
post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisep View Post
This link is awesome! Thanks so much for posting it. I think I am starting to reach the point you did of just accepting the night wakings and you're right, it does feel more peaceful.
I was making myself crazy trying to figure out why why why.... Once I realized there really wasn't a why, or one I could figure out, I had no choice but to accept it really. And it has made a huge difference. Yes, I am tired.. pretty much all the time.. but I'm not going crazy anymore.
post #18 of 22
I know you said the doctor ruled out physical issues, and he's still just a baby, but...

I have learned about my toddler, who has always been a poor sleeper going back to babyhood, that he has issues with food intolerance and magnesium deficiency (and probably other deficiencies caused by the food intolerance and leaky gut and related issues). What has worked for us to improve sleep is the following:

1) Eliminating all dairy from both of our diets
2) Both of us going on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet
2) Supplementing him with magnesium
3) Epsom salt baths and lotions
4) Enzymes

If I could go back and do it again, the very first thing I would try would be enzymes, because that is the easiest and simplest place to start, and in some cases it is all that is necessary. That is, while he was still a baby and exclusively breast feeding, I would have taken enzymes to avoid passing on to him my own leaky gut food particles in my milk. Then I would see if it helped at all. Just something for you to consider. You have nothing to lose by trying, and it might help. If it helps, you know there's an issue with food intolerance. Then you can decide whether enzymes alone are enough to address the issue.

For more information about enzymes, you can learn a lot from the EnzymeStuff web site. The general recommendation is to start with a broad based, low protease enzyme and use it for three weeks. Then add in a strong protease enzyme such as Gluten Ease or another one made to digest gluten and casein proteins. You might also try an enzyme such as No Fenol, which assists with digesting the phenols in fruits and vegetables.

I messed around with NCSS for a long time before finding I could make so much more progress working from the inside out than trying to change his behavior. I have realized that he has health issues that make his body uncomfortable and fidgety. I think he is often full of uncomfortable energies and sensations.

Another easy place to start might be to try a magnesium supplement that is safe to use for babies, such as Baby Calm. You could go really low and slow with it and see if it helps at all. If it doesn't do anything, then you could just stop.
post #19 of 22
Somebody seems to think that I am trying to sell enzymes and asked a moderator to warn me. To clarify: the enzyme stuff web site is just an informational resource. It does not sell enzymes. I have nothing to do with it.

When my ds was a baby, I wish somebody would have told me about enzymes. It would have saved me a lot of grief. I could have taken enzymes, and then he would not have gotten my leaky gut food molecules in his milk. Now as a toddler, he is on the SCD, and I am on it as well.

I feel that I would be remiss if I did not share what I have learned, if I thought it might help somebody else. THAT was my motivation, okay?
post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by WyattsMom2008 View Post
Somebody seems to think that I am trying to sell enzymes and asked a moderator to warn me. To clarify: the enzyme stuff web site is just an informational resource. It does not sell enzymes. I have nothing to do with it.

When my ds was a baby, I wish somebody would have told me about enzymes. It would have saved me a lot of grief. I could have taken enzymes, and then he would not have gotten my leaky gut food molecules in his milk. Now as a toddler, he is on the SCD, and I am on it as well.

I feel that I would be remiss if I did not share what I have learned, if I thought it might help somebody else. THAT was my motivation, okay?
Wow. I read your post and thought it interesting and might apply to us. In fact, I was hoping for more info as I visited the webpage but was overwhelmed...

Not for one second did I think you were trying to sell enzymes!! LOL
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