Why Won't He Accept/Create a Schedule?

[lifeguard]

I feel like I have been "fighting" with trying to get ds onto some sort of semblance of a schedule forever. We have tried hard to establish a bedtime routine. I set the alarm every morning to wake us up (our biggest problem is him wanting/needing to be up much too late). I try not to make our days very busy so that we are home & can stick to a routine but it's just not working.

Do some babies/toddlers really just create their own schedule? What am I doing so wrong that ds won't settle onto one?

Here is the schedule I am aiming for (although I really don't care what the schedule ends up being - I just want some sort of consistency so I can plan our days a little bit). By activity I simply mean playing in the house or going to the library or going grocery shopping, etc.

8:30 - wake up
Morning - breakfast, walk dogs, activity
12:30 - lunch
1:30 - nap
3:30 - wake up from nap, snack, activity
6:30 - supper, activity
9:00 - bedtime

Day to day the variance from this "schedule" is dramatic. Tonight he finally went to sleep for the night at 1:30am - that is after I tried going through our bedtime routine several times at different points in the evening.

I'm tired. I'm frustrated. I'm not being the gentle, loving mommy I want to be 'cause I'm just so done with the whole thing. I've tried so hard to follow his lead....

[meemee]

are you saying one day he goes to bed at 1:30 and then another day goes to bed at 11 pm?

what is his natural bedtime?

can you work with that?

for instance dd was a night owl. i discovered if i let her fall asleep when she was ready to she slept much better. so her bedtime was with ours. 11 to midnight.

she was on this schedule or should i say i was on that schedule from baby to 6 years old. at 6 she changed schools at first grade where she had to be in school by 8 am and not 11 am. since then she switches back to her old time during holidays and again goes back to the 9 pm bedtime when school starts.

plus really her sleep pattern didnt really fall into a regular pace till she was 2 or 3?!!! or around there. she went thru many sleep changes like her friends who went from crib to cosleeping at 2 years old.

also my dd was/is v. high energy. esp. as a baby if she didnt get enough activity she would have a hard time falling asleep. like at 10 months she would climb our apt or library stairs for about an hour or so. she never gave me a hard time on those days going to bed.

because dd went to bed anytime from 11 pm to 2 am, she woke up anytime from 10 am to noon. i really had no time adjusting my schedule to fit hers. we mostly did her stuff - like going to teh park, LLL, walk, etc.

perhaps you are a more structured person than me. however having a high needs stubborn child it was easy to follow her pattern.

[lifeguard]

I really have tried to follow his natural rhythms - but I cannot discern what they are. His "bedtime" will vary from 8:00 one night to 1:30 the next. It's all over the clock & always has been even. Whether I try to provide a consistent daytime schedule or not. I'm a night owl myself so I would totally resent someone trying to force me to go to bed before I'm ready. I just can't seem to find what is normal for him.

[meemee]

is this something new or has it been going on for a while?

has he gone thru some major spurts? not just growth. but has he started walking or talking or something similar.

could he be wanting more physical activity?

[lifeguard]

This has always been his pattern (literally since birth he has never shown a rhythm). That's why I'm so frustrated with it. I've tried to follow his lead & I've tried to set the rhythm but neither seems to be leading us to any discernible schedule.

[AislinCarys]

I think some babies just don't seem to be affected by any schedule - I've got one of those. Personally I need structure and like routines, and the children I used to care for before DD was born all thrived on routine (flexible, so not necessarily strict schedules). I had planned to gently ease DD into a good routine, flexible schedule... No go. There has been some structure to her days (like sleep 1 starting between 9 and 12.30, sleep 2 between 11 and 2 and sleep 3 between 2 and 5 all going on for about 30 min to 2,5 hours, in the early days), and for a long time she went to sleep sometime between 9.30 and 11 pm at night, and fell asleep at 11 am (if in her push chair out for a long walk).

At the moment she might go to sleep anytime between 8 pm and 11.30pm. She might sleep through the night, or wake up 1,2,3 or 4 times. She might wake up anytime between 5.30 and 9.30 am. And there is no connection between early bedtime-early morning or opposite.

She may have 1,2 or no sleeps in the daytime. They can be anything from 15 min to 2,5 hours, and take anything from 5 min to 3 hours to get her to sleep. 1 single sleep in the day can take place at 9 am, 11 am, 12.30, 2pm or 6pm.

Some days she wants a huge breakfast, other days she doesn't even want to come down for breakfast, some days she likes to sit up and have a snack every other hour, other days she hardly eats all day long, keeps saying "No". Some days she breastfeeds every 15 min or more, other days she might go even 2 hours between feeds.
There's just no pattern. And she doesn't respond at all to my trying to ease her into one. I guess it is just the way she is.

[AislinCarys]

What I do is keep going according to my (flexible) schedule or routine. And just tend to her needs alongside this. She can sleep in the Ergo or MeiTai, luckily, or on the bike, so when she's tired I get her to sleep, wherever we are. We have activities in the morning, come home for lunch, and have quieter afternoons, when she often is more tired. And I just do housework and other stuff with her around me.

[lifeguard]

It is super reassring to know we're not the only ones in this boat. It feels like everyone irl think I am at fault because they just can't seem to fathom that a baby might not naturally fall into a rhythm.

Any other suggestions would be welcome. I am willing to try pretty much anything (except cio!).

[almadianna]

can I ask why the need for a schedule?

[lifeguard]

I really am not wanting/needing a strict schedule by any stretch. I just find it stressful not knowing if he will go down for the night at 8pm or 1am. That's a huge difference from night to night & it's making it very difficult to plan around. I'm a night owl myself so I like to try to get some house renovation & cleaning stuff done after he goes to sleep - I spend the whole day focussed on him.

Maybe I am being unrealistic - but it seems "all the other babies" get into such a predictable rhythm.

[almadianna]

Originally Posted by lifeguard

Maybe I am being unrealistic - but it seems "all the other babies" get into such a predictable rhythm.

I cannot tell you about your specific baby but I can tell you that this kind of thinking isnt good for your baby or you.

No, not all babies are into these predictable rhythms... this forum is full of mamas with babies who dont sleep, dont sleep enough, or who have their own schedules that change on a daily basis.

I know that my children (aged 3 and 15 months) think that schedules are funny and sleep is for the weak... LOL.

[Maluhia]

Originally Posted by lifeguard

Maybe I am being unrealistic - but it seems "all the other babies" get into such a predictable rhythm.

Oh the frustration of that feeling - but remember that no two people are the same, and the same is true of children. The babies who have natural predictability may have very different personalities from your son, and he from them.

((hugs))

[handsandfeet]

I have always considered myself a pretty "scheduled" person, so it has been a tad challenging to deal with my son, who sounds a lot like yours! He is 7 mos, and for the last month I've just given up on trying to figure out a natural pattern and just go with the flow, and we all seem to be happier because of it. I put him down for naps when he seems really tired, and if it takes longer than 20 minutes to get him to sleep, I usually give up and do some quiet play instead. Bedtime ranges from 7 PM to whenever I go to bed (11 PM or so), and sometimes he goes down at 7 and then wakes up at 7:30 ready to play. Anyway, I just go with whatever keeps him happy, and gave up on a schedule. For daytime activities, if it involves other people, I just try to keep it flexible -- if I'm meeting up with someone, I'll ask if I can text them when DS wakes up from a nap, and that usually works well. Or if I have to be somewhere at a certain time we just do it, and he can sleep on the go if necessary. Bedtimes are the hardest, b/c, like you, I like to have a few hours to get things done, but have learned that isnt' always going to happen. Although often he his happy to be worn while I do things at night, or DH will play with him, or he will swing in his swing for a while, then he'll come to bed with me when I go. He rarely tries to keep me up past my own bedtime, which I appreciate . Anyway, I found that the more I TRIED to create a schedule, the more frustrated I got, so I gave up, and now am a lot happier!

[lifeguard]

I think I have given the wrong impression - I really have just been going with the flow - I'm not pushing a schedule aggressively.

But somedays it is hard to have everyone give you these looks (or worse, comments) that I'm doing something wrong because he's not in a schedule. As a rhythm would be easier for us to follow I would do what I could to support that.

But perhaps I just need to accept that I have someone on my hands who doesn't need a consistent schedule like others do. That's not altogether bad!

I do miss my evenings though...

[wbg]

Originally Posted by lifeguard

I think I have given the wrong impression - I really have just been going with the flow - I'm not pushing a schedule aggressively.

But somedays it is hard to have everyone give you these looks (or worse, comments) that I'm doing something wrong because he's not in a schedule. As a rhythm would be easier for us to follow I would do what I could to support that.

But perhaps I just need to accept that I have someone on my hands who doesn't need a consistent schedule like others do. That's not altogether bad!

I do miss my evenings though...

I have found over the course of 4 kids with completely different natures, that you will eventually work out a schedule, or non schedule so to speak. My eldest loved routine and predictability and would go to bed every night at 7 after bath and a story no matter what! Then he would wake up at 6am. His sister who arrived 1 short year later, was a night owl. No 7pm sleeps for her.

What I tried to do was to create a free space. So at bedtime, after we all bathed and read, he would go to sleep and then she would just hang out in her room. At first I thought she was going to bed, but then I would hear her singing away. So then at midnight when we went to bed and her brother woke up and came to sleep with us, she would join us and then go to sleep.

Fast forward to present times. They are still alike. She gets dressed at night after bath time and sleeps in her clothes so she can sleep later in the morning. She goes to bed with her siblings, usually in our room. They all fall asleep and she reads and reads and draws and reads! And falls asleep at midnight!

So schedules are what some children need and others do not. Oddly enough over the summer, she seems to prefer that I make her a "schedule" while he loves the freedom of no plans! BUt you can take part of your evening back. When my third was still napping and I wanted a break, I set up quiet time for the older two. Put books, puzzles etc out in their room. made sure it was safe and they hung for an hour or two till baby woke up. Maybe you can create a quiet time in your evening that he can look forward to. Set it up in the room next to you and let him know you are there, but its Mommy time. It might work. Or not!

[lisavark]

I totally know how you feel, OP. DD is NOT a schedule baby and I really, really wish she would be more scheduled. And I'm a completely unscheduled person, very spontaneous, to the extent that I chose my career (in my pre-mama life, haha) based on my need to sleep in one day and get up early the next day, rather than having to be at work at the same time every day.

I have tried repeatedly to get DD on a schedule, and to be honest, I've succeeded many, many times. It lasts for a week. Maybe two. Then it changes again.

For a little while I had her on the "ideal" schedule you describe, which is my ideal schedule too, almost, except for the bedtime which I never could get. She would take two hours to fall asleep no matter what time I tried to put her to bed (I tried everywhere between 5:30 and 11.) Anyway, that nap schedule lasted for about two weeks, and then she decided to completely quit napping altogether. Which is currently driving me insane, but bedtime is a whole heck of a lot easier. Way, way too early, though, and she still wakes a TON at night.

I will say, though, that my life got a lot better when I stopped trying to follow her lead and just set the times that I thought were appropriate. Sorry if that doesn't sound very AP! But I really believed for a long time that DD didn't need a schedule--was even going to write an article for Mothering on how babies don't need bedtime routines--but by the time I finished researching the article, I had changed my mind and started really trying to incorporate more routine into DD's and my lives. Mostly because the unpredictability was driving me insane. My dad would want to get together for lunch and I would refuse because I had to be home from 11 am to 3 pm trying to catch her nap window. Trying to get her to sleep enough was taking over my life.

Anyway, here are some things that have worked for me: like you said, I wake her up at the same time every day--7 or 7:30 works better than 8 for us. We have activities that are very toddler-focused and exercise-focused EVERY morning and every afternoon. Like playgroups, the playground, etc. I think it's especially helpful to get her outside in sunlight in the morning. And I feed her meals and snacks at the same time every day, and I eat when she does and do everything I can to encourage her to eat too, even if it feels coercive. (Mostly I play with her food and do airplanes and such...which I always swore I would never do...but eating helps sets circadian rhythms...) And now that she's stopped napping, I still lie down with her and nurse her at 1:00 every day, and if she doesn't fall asleep, I try to get her to lie there and nurse for an hour. Then we play quietly (usually she colors while *I* try to rest) for another hour. "Naptime" doesn't end until 3:00, which is when she used to wake up.

For about two weeks, maybe a month, that regime got her to nap at the same time every day... which was a nice break for me from the usual hectic unpredictability. And I still feel like life is pretty predictable, because now I figure that if she's going to nap, it's going to happen then. If she wants to fall asleep for nap later than 2:00 pm, I don't let her. The late late bedtime that caused was just getting way out of control for us.

ETA: Now that I think about it, I think the key for me was deciding when DD was NOT going to sleep. I have absolutely no control over when she WILL sleep--I could do EVERYTHING (nurse, rock, sing, etc.) for hours (literally!) and still not get her to sleep. But I could always wake her up. So by waking her in the morning and waking her from nap or preventing her from napping late in the afternoons, I was able to get her to be a little more predictable in her schedule.

[alfabetsoup]

I think you've got some really good advice here, both on UNscheduling and scheduling.

This in particular:

Originally Posted by lisavark

ETA: Now that I think about it, I think the key for me was deciding when DD was NOT going to sleep. I have absolutely no control over when she WILL sleep--I could do EVERYTHING (nurse, rock, sing, etc.) for hours (literally!) and still not get her to sleep. But I could always wake her up. So by waking her in the morning and waking her from nap or preventing her from napping late in the afternoons, I was able to get her to be a little more predictable in her schedule.

I was going to say that you might try moving your whole schedule earlier. Like this:

7am (ouch!) wake up, breakfast
physical activity ie gymboree, toddler group, playground
10am snack
11:30 lunch - both my girls eat so much more lunch at this time
12:00 - 2:30 nap or just rest
snack
busy afternoon
5:00 dinner - I know it sounds early but it really works
play with Daddy (aaah)
read
milk/nurse
bath
bed

I had trouble getting DD1 on any kind of predictable routine once her naps started consolidating and she was eating more solids. Somebody recommended me a certain hardcore scheduling book (which I do NOT recommend) and amidst all the crap, there was this bit about children needing to eat early. Like, lunch at 11:15 and dinner at 4:30. I can't tell you how much difference it made to the day--she would eat a giant lunch and then go right upstairs for a 2-3 hour nap! And that horrible witching hour around 5pm just stopped happening and she would be ready for bed around 7 or 7:30.

One more thing: DON'T try to keep a quiet day. Plan your nap and meal times, and make sure the rest of the day is busy busy busy. Run errands, do some baby gym or music classes, meet friends, go to the playground--all these things build rythm into your day.