Need info/links on the vax that prevents pneumonia. And Need help w/forced Vax's.

[MadameXCupcake]

I'm sure a lot of you saw my thread in the parenting section, well things are worse now.

My DD had a mild cough and the sniffles when she went to visit her grandparents for a week while I was out of town. She ended up having febrile seizures from a fever the day after she got there was diagnosed with pneumonia. Medical neglect is being investigated since everyone is saying she must have been very sick a long time to have severe pneumonia and she was not. No fever, was eating, playing well, etc. If she was so sick for it to in fact be medical neglect I'm sure my father/his girlfriend would have had her seen as soon as they got her not out shopping which is where she was when she suddenly spiked a fever and had a febrile seizure. My ex husband also had her for visitation and he had not mentioned that he thought she should see a doctor or was concerned with her cold.[I just wanted to add that in to in fact reassure that my daughter was not horribly sick.]

So now my father, his girlfriend, and my ex husband are all convinced my daughter would not have gotten sick if she was vaccinated. All of them are doing anything and everything they can to have her caught up immediately with all vaccines[she has none].

I would really appreciate information on the vaccine for pneumonia. There's a bit of sarcasm in that sentence..

But I need something to present to my ex to get him to calm down he was 100% on board with no vaccines before and my dad and his girlfriend have convinced him otherwise that she was sick because we are stupid and do not have her vaccinated. I also need to have my ducks in a row so to speak if this does come back around on me and I need to prove anything I guess. :/

If anyone has any legal advice or knows where I can get some, please let me know as well.

BTW My daughter is with me for those of you who know the situation. Having her caught up on vaccines at one time is something I would never let happen which is what my father and ex husband wanted to do. I'm sorry if this was a bit confusing I just drove to the next state to get her back to prevent this and I am pretty exhausted and drained. I'm sure some of you are wondering why I said I couldn't just go get her before but its because I am exhausted from everything that is going on and I dont have the money, I just spent part of my rent. But I have always wanted the best for her and I would do anything to keep her safe and originally I thought she was safe, really this completely shocked me as my father all along has known about our choices and even agreed partly. I think it was a lot of scaremongering by the Ped or ER that the "pneumonia vaccine" would have prevented this and she "could have died".
TIA

[FernG]

Remind your exH and dad that pnemonia is a condition that can be caused by many, many things. It is not a disease like mumps or measles that can be prevented by a single vaccine.

What caused your dd's pneumonia? It's very likely that it was not a strain of bacteria that is covered by a vaccine. If it was viral or fungal, there are no vaccines targeting those conditions.

"Pneumonia is a respiratory condition in which there is inflammation of the lung"
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/000145.htm


Definition from the Mayo clinic...
"Pneumonia is an inflammation of your lungs, usually caused by infection. Bacteria, viruses, fungi or parasites can cause pneumonia."

"Pneumonia often mimics the flu, beginning with a cough and a fever, so you may not realize you have a more serious condition. "
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/pneumonia/DS00135

Recent mothering threads with more good links...
Any Merit to Prevnar?

Pneumonia vaccine...

Pneumovax for my kids...

New study on efficacy of pneumococcal

[MadameXCupcake]

I do know these things but do not have the time nor energy with everything going on to find this information, so first off thank you guys. :3


I was told it was bacterial. How would I find out the strain? Is the strain even checked?

[***edgar]

The only pneumonia that I know of that has a vax is pnuemococcal disease. It is characterized by sudden onset with shaking,chill, fever, plueral pain, shortness of breath, rapid breathing, cough producing rusty sputum, high white count.

In any case you should have a conversation with the doctor to find out if she has pnuemococcal pnuemonia or pnuemonia caused by something else.
I wish your daughter well.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by MadameXCupcake

Medical neglect is being investigated since everyone is saying she must have been very sick a long time to have severe pneumonia and she was not.

That's one of the lamest things I think I've ever heard. Pneumonia can certainly come on quickly - last time I had it, it started out like any other normal sinus infection (annual thing for me with seasonal allergies - totally not a big deal!) and literally within 24 hrs I went from feeling a little run down to having a burst eardrum and pneumonia. Honestly if you can at all, the first thing I would do is take her to a doctor you trust and get a second opinion so you can have it on record that it is indeed very possible for this to have come on quickly. I'd also get as much information about what she has as well; the doctor's office can get copies of her records.

It sounds like with the discovered abuse, they're now looking for something else to throw onto the pile to investigate in order to make a stronger case. Who has medical authority over your dd? If it's you then it doesn't matter what others in your family think really, the decision is up to you.

Until you get your information together, I would reply to my ex and father something like this. "We have had good reasons for choosing not to vax in the past and those reasons are still valid. I'm currently researching what caused her pneumonia, as it's likely that even with the vax she would have still caught this strain that may not be covered. Regardless, it's generally considered unsafe to vax a child who is ill or who has recently been very ill, so this is not something that can be addressed at this time. We will discuss it later, but my position remains the same." That buys you some time to get everything in order while giving them an "accepted" reason to back off for a week or two. Good luck and lot's of hugs!

[chaoticzenmom]

Your daughter has been under sooo much stress lately that it would be a surprise if she didn't get sick. She's at least as stressed as you've been and she doesn't have the voice or reasoning that you have.

I'm so glad she's with you. I'm not sure what to do in your case considering all that's happened and the fact that your family is in a vulnerable situation right now.

Is the dr. pushing for vaccinations? Is this just coming from your family? Is CPS involved?

I think you should do what you can to research cps and your rights. I don't think you should avoid CPS in your situation, but definitely know your rights and have a plan of how to deal with them for your daughter's safety. Do you think your dad or ex will call? They were going to vax her while she's recovering from Pneumonia?

How are you going to handle having her now?
I hope all goes well.

[chaoticzenmom]

Do you have a dr. for your daughter there? I'd take her in and have her checked. Then, I"d ask the dr. to get all of the records from the emergency room so that he can review them.

[Emmeline II]

I would take her to your own doctor and get a documented opinion from him. If your ex has had a recent visit, both he and your father also bear responsibility for any supposed "medical neglect" if the state is alleging that this has been building for some time; why didn't the ex or your father take her to the hospital if she was so obviously ill . And if she is in school/daycare, her teacher could be a witness as to her apparent health, so I would get a statement from her ASAP.

Pneumococcal

Meningococcal


Perhaps you should write your ex something like:

As you were in agreement with not vaccinating dd, I can only assume your sudden change of mind this weekend is a rash and unresearched decision. As dd cannot be vaccinated while ill with pneumonia, you have time to research the topic and we can discuss it at a later date.

Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Vaccines: The Risks, The Benefits, The Choices 1/18DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

Health Sentinel Graphs

WHO GRAPH

Vaccine Injury Table

Beyond Conformity Resources Page
Do you have a quick-fire summary?

Inside Vaccines

[LAWoman]

I'm glad you went to be with your daughter. I read your other thread and given everything your daughter has been going through lately, and the fact that the authorities are involved, I'm not sure I would fight this particular fight right now.

I'm not a lawyer but it sounds like you need one (you can ask the social worker at the hospital, there are probably some free or very low cost legal aid options locally). I would strongly advise you to do whatever the lawyer recommends. It sounds to me like there may be some custody issues brewing and my guess is a lawyer would recommend that if you want to keep custody of your daughter, the best thing right now is to pick your battles and go along with whatever her doctors are recommending for her. When you combine it with the other issues, allegations of medical neglect are quite serious. I'm sorry you are in this position but the most important thing for your daughter right now is that she is protected and safe so she can heal physically and emotionally. If you believe that she is safest with you, do whatever it takes to retain custody. She has a lot of healing to do and she needs your energy to be focused on helping facilitate that right now, not fighting over this issue. You need her doctors to be your allies in treating her, not your adversaries. I'm sorry, I know that isn't what you want to hear.

Good luck.

[LAWoman]

Oh, and don't worry, they won't give all her vaxes at one time. They will put her on a catch up schedule.

[PlayaMama]

Originally Posted by LAWoman

I'm glad you went to be with your daughter. I read your other thread and given everything your daughter has been going through lately, and the fact that the authorities are involved, I'm not sure I would fight this particular fight right now.

I'm not a lawyer but it sounds like you need one (you can ask the social worker at the hospital, there are probably some free or very low cost legal aid options locally). I would strongly advise you to do whatever the lawyer recommends. It sounds to me like there may be some custody issues brewing and my guess is a lawyer would recommend that if you want to keep custody of your daughter, the best thing right now is to pick your battles and go along with whatever her doctors are recommending for her. When you combine it with the other issues, allegations of medical neglect are quite serious. I'm sorry you are in this position but the most important thing for your daughter right now is that she is protected and safe so she can heal physically and emotionally. If you believe that she is safest with you, do whatever it takes to retain custody. She has a lot of healing to do and she needs your energy to be focused on helping facilitate that right now, not fighting over this issue. You need her doctors to be your allies in treating her, not your adversaries. I'm sorry, I know that isn't what you want to hear.

Good luck.

i agree 100% with this. if there are custody issues coming up and you could LOSE custody of your daughter for not vaxing, i'd get her vaxed at least partially when she recovers.

start with the ones that have very low rxn rates and at least then you can say, "i am vaxing her," and it's truthful. remember, in mainstream america it IS neglectful not to vax your kids.

i wish you both peace and healing.

[khaoskat]

I would send a written request into the hospital and treating Ped she was taken to and request copies of any and all records. If they refuse you, then contact your Ped and ask them to make the requests. They can base their request on needing to know what treatment she has received so they do not do anything contra indicated.

[ZoeyZoo]

I saw this article the other day that is actually in response to the swine flu vax. It has some good numbers from reputable sources about viral pneumonia and how it was only something like 39 cases in the US.

As other PPs mentioned there are only 2 non-flu vaxes that would possible have an effect on it and they only cover certain strains. The flu vaxes themselves don't cover this but they "say" they lesson the likelyhood of getting it.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...-Pandemic.aspx

I can't help you with the legal issues other than hopefully they will respond to common sense.

[Emmeline II]

Child Abuse and Neglect Statues
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwi...tate/index.cfm

Quote:
http://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.c...regarding.html
The Arizona State Court of Appeals has slapped down efforts by Child Protective Services to have a youngster in foster care immunized over a parent's objections....

Potentially more sweeping, the judge said the laws that allow the state to take temporary custody of a child specifically spell out what powers and responsibilities that includes. These range from the right of physical custody and the right to discipline the child to the requirement to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter and medical care. Eckerstrom said anything not on that list remains the right of the biological parent.

Find a Lawyer referral under "Services"
http://www.falseallegation.org/services.htm

Parents Guide to Dealing With CPS

http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...parents_guide/
Fighting Child Protective Services False Accusations
http://www.fightcps.com/

CPS Watch -- Legal Forms
http://web.archive.org/web/200306021...ms/default.asp
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