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Parents Should Respect Their Children's Bodies and Decisions - Page 2

post #21 of 91
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As a kid, my dentist pulled 4 of my permanent teeth to make room in my very small mouth. I sure as hell didn't want that done. I can't even comment today whether it was the right choice but I know for a fact my mother made it with the sole criterion of "what is best for my child."
My mother made the same decision, for the same reason, with the same outcome except that i had 6 adult teeth removed, AND the dentist pulled out all of my remaining milk teeth to get at my molars which were still in my jaw to do it so from age 10 to age 12 i only had 8 teeth, the front ones! AND she had it done over 8 weeks (one quarter mouth of 3milk teeth and one/two major molar removed at a time every other friday) so that i wouldn't have general anaesthetic which she felt was too risky. I didn't enjoy it, but i'd do the same thing for my DD now.
post #22 of 91
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Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
If you share your stories with other people, it then becomes their business, too. And FWIW, the OP didn't say she was talking to a friend. This could have been someone she just met or had only spoken to a few times in the past.

If something is troubling you, and you talk to a friend about it, you don't want any feedback at all? I see no point in talking, then. That's like talking to a wall. All I'm saying is that you can't expect that people will always give you the responses that will make you feel better.
Well, she did say that they parents were wanting to vent, not asking for advice. Don't you ever have moments when you just want to whine about stuff and have someone listen? Yesterday my children were driving me crazy so I called my mom and vented to her about them. I didn't want advice or for her to tell me I was doing it all wrong, I just wanted someone to listen. And after 20 minutes of whining, I felt better and was able to go be a better mom. I just needed to talk and to have someone listen.
post #23 of 91
I wondered where you went, Deer Hunter!

I've had a few of those moments lately where I feel like I was able to control my temper and be civil about something I wasn't previously every able to be nice about, and it is a proud moment! Good for you!

That said, I think the parents were probably making the decision they felt was best and I don't think I would have gone into a lengthy discussion about it. I might respectfull disagree, but that's about as far as I would go. There are a lot of loving parents who give vaccines to their kids.

I don't know about my parents choice to have my vaxed (how I feel about it, I mean), but I am a needle phobe, and cannot be trusted to make decisions about my medical care when needles are involved. Once when I was severely dehydrated, I really struggled with forcing myself to go to the hospital for IV fluids. I'm glad that my husband gently pressured me to go. I would have no problem doing the same for a child.
post #24 of 91
OP, I actually agree with you. We had swim lessons 2 years ago and they decided to hold a flu shot clinic AT the swim place. It was indoors and echoey and the lessons were very expensive. So for 2 weeks (2 lessons a week) we had to sit through watching many people forced into vaccinations against their will. There were children being held down by 4+ people-and we're not talking toddlers. There were old people in wheelchairs being forced. It was a total nightmare.

I find it disgusting that we don't respect other peoples' bodies. Forcing a chemical cocktail that has been proven to be dangerous into someone is a far cry from a freaking tattoo. And in most states, that's not even legal until a certain age, anyhow.

I didn't talk with the people about their flu shot decisions. But I did round up a bunch of product inserts, highlight, and scatter them around the swim waiting room.
post #25 of 91
It is important with friends to know the difference between when they just want to vent and when theyare asking for your opinion. There are things I would force my child to do, even medically, because while it is her body it effects all of us. When my children got the flew last month (we got H1N1 as well as regular flu) none of us slept for a month. we all suffered with t he sick one. I missed work, had medical bills, got sick!. granted I still would not have chosen to get the vaccine but part of refusing vaccines (or any other choice) is being willing to deal with the consequences. When these decisions are made, if they effect the whole family, they are family descisions.
post #26 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
I told them that if they ever wanted to vent again, they can certainly do that.
Do you really think they will? I mean you basically told them they disrespected their child and made a foolish medical decision. I don't think I'd be very likely to bring up the subject again with anyone who did that to me.

Also, you said you were "calm" but that you were "very angry at their small mindedness and refusal to respect their daughter’s decisions." I'm sure on some level that had to come through.
post #27 of 91
What if this was another medical treatment?

You have lice you will be combed? Not to respectful but there is a reason behind it.

Pinworms?

Hearing test?

Kidney Ultrasounds?

Echocardiogram?

Meds for cronic constipation?

Athlete's foot?

Jock itch?

You have no clue if there is a medical reason that child should take a vacination against the flu.

Yes, I have not respected my child's body and wishes. I don't like it but at the same time I am the parent. I have to make the judgement call. Even though I would give my teen a lot more room I would put my foot down.
post #28 of 91
I agree that a child of that age should definitely have a say in medical decisions involving her body. I do agree the ultimate decision rests with the parents, but if they had to resort to force to get this shot in her you can most assuredly count on it having done more harm than good. My guess is at 18 there will be no more flu shots for her.
post #29 of 91
In my experience, when kids don't want to get shots, it's because they are afraid of the shot itself, not that they have done extensive research about the effects of a vaccine.

There are lots of medical things I make my kids do, because I am looking out for their overall well-being. My five-year-old daughter has had four major surgeries already for a facial birthmark. This summer she had one surgery, then for the twelve weeks after the surgery had an injection every week. Then another surgery at the end of the twelve weeks. Was she overly thrilled with this situation? No. I still made her do it. Next summer she'll have at least one skin graft. Also not her decision.

Sometimes parents have to make kids do things that kids don't like, which is a bummer for everyone involved. It doesn't make the parents wrong or bad parents, though.
post #30 of 91

Quot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
That struck a nerve very bad with me because I feel that it is her body, and though they are the parents, it is not their duty to force their child to do things to her body against her will.
I think it's a grey area. My 13 year old is involved in decisions about her medical care. I speak very openly and honestly with her about things, try to get her to look at things critically, and listen to her. Ultimately I'm responsible for her right now, but I feel like this is the period of her life when I get to train her HOW to make these kinds of decisions. If I just make them for her she misses out, but if I just let her make them without teaching her to think criticially, she also misses out.

I wouldn't, BTW, force my DD to do something to her body against her will. One thing about teens is that they have plenty of ways of taking control of their bodies in destructive, rebellous ways. I think that parents who get into power struggles over this are misguided.

Once kids are old enough to drink, smoke, use illegal drugs, have sex, cut themselves with knives, etc., parents really need to pick their battles and think about how they are teaching kids to make choices rather than forcing kids to make exactly the choice the parent wants on those few things that parents actually can control. There is so much more that we really and truly don't have control over. I believe that the more we respect a teens right to control their body, the less likely they are to do something stupid just to prove us wrong.

Quote:
Not to mention, I’m one hundred percent antovaccination, so I supported her daughter.
I suspect that this is more the issue than whether or not teens should get to make their own choices regarding their bodies. I suspect that your response would have been different if the teen had wanted vaccines and the parents were against them.

I really see it the same way either way, and I believe that teens are old enough to be part of the decision. However, that only works if the parents truly are OK with the teen making either choice.


Quote:
I also explained that they should be patient with their daughter, since she is going through a very confusing period in her life, and she is only trying to find herself. I also let them know how tough it is to be a teenager, as that time of my life is one I never want to live.
But would you be OK with your teen deciding to get the MMR? Would you be able to talk calmly to your own child? Respect her choice?
post #31 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigeresse View Post
I agree that a child of that age should definitely have a say in medical decisions involving her body. I do agree the ultimate decision rests with the parents, but if they had to resort to force to get this shot in her you can most assuredly count on it having done more harm than good. My guess is at 18 there will be no more flu shots for her.

But that's the point, right? At 18 she will be responsible, at least in the legal sense, for her decision making and all the rationale behind it. If she decides never to get another flu shot, that's her choice, as an adult. Ultimately, as a minor, her well being is in the care of her parents.

In our home, dd would never "choose" to get a flu shot. I wouldn't either, nor would DH. But another of my kids is very high risk, and as a family we need to do what we can to protect him, so we get flu shots, among the zillion other things, not vax related, that are part of our arsenal.

If someone felt I was being small minded, or mainstream, and told me about it, so be it. That person has the luxury of not living in my family, not holding responsibility for a kid w/ a chronic illness, and not having to make the tough choices. Someone hopefully will clue them into how rude it is to act in that manner.
post #32 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by savithny View Post
How would you have felt if the teen had come home wanting to get the flu shot and her parents had disagreed and refused to sign the necessary paperwork for her to get it? That attitude would not be very child-centered either, nor would it respect the girls decision?
Well, if that were my child, and she were sixteen years of age and old enough to provide me with a mature reason why she wanted the flu shot, and I was confident she fully understood why she was doing it, I'd let her do it, though, i disagree. I'd try to reason with her at first, though, and I'd show her literature, so she could make an informed choice; but, if she still wanted to go forth with it, I'd have to let her. It is her body after all. Sure, I do not believe in child centeredness to the point of the child being allowed to do whatever they want, as that is so unreasonable, and children do need guidance from their parents. I just feel that children should have an input as much as possible, within reason, of course.
post #33 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post
OP, I actually agree with you. We had swim lessons 2 years ago and they decided to hold a flu shot clinic AT the swim place. It was indoors and echoey and the lessons were very expensive. So for 2 weeks (2 lessons a week) we had to sit through watching many people forced into vaccinations against their will. There were children being held down by 4+ people-and we're not talking toddlers. There were old people in wheelchairs being forced. It was a total nightmare.

I find it disgusting that we don't respect other peoples' bodies. Forcing a chemical cocktail that has been proven to be dangerous into someone is a far cry from a freaking tattoo. And in most states, that's not even legal until a certain age, anyhow.

I didn't talk with the people about their flu shot decisions. But I did round up a bunch of product inserts, highlight, and scatter them around the swim waiting room.


I'm glad you see where I'm coming from on this and do not feel me to be arrogant. I'm just concerned, that is all because I know about the dangers of the chemicals contained in these vaccines. If I were there at your pool place and saw that, I'd have cried my eyes out. I don't think I could handle watching people being forced to do things like that against their will. To me, it is the same as violation.

Personally, i choose not to vaccinate my children, but if my children get to a point that they are able to maturely reason with me that they want to get vaccinated, and this will be after they see all of the literature about the dangers and read through all the studies and articles to have a clear head, then I'd have to let them because it is their bodies.
post #34 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverscout View Post
Do you really think they will? I mean you basically told them they disrespected their child and made a foolish medical decision. I don't think I'd be very likely to bring up the subject again with anyone who did that to me.

Also, you said you were "calm" but that you were "very angry at their small mindedness and refusal to respect their daughter’s decisions." I'm sure on some level that had to come through.


Actually, my anger did not show at all. One becomes good at keeping their emotions hidden if they need to. Trust me, I've learned to do that, especially when my uncle became drunk and abusive. I could not let him see me cry. I could not let him see me be effected. so, if I want, I can go and not lead people onto how I feel. I can be calk but rage inside. i grew up like that, not being allow to cry and all. And, the conversation did go fine, as we did talk for about two hours after that, and then I went to bed. That is why I did not come back.
post #35 of 91
Quote:
Personally, i choose not to vaccinate my children, but if my children get to a point that they are able to maturely reason with me that they want to get vaccinated, and this will be after they see all of the literature about the dangers and read through all the studies and articles to have a clear head, then I'd have to let them because it is their bodies.
I am curious, what "mature reason" would it take for you to accept the fact she wants a flu shot.

I am not being snarky but really would like to know what argument would sway a person who is anti-vac to allow their child to get something that they believe truly is detrimental to their health.
post #36 of 91
I'm curious too, as to why you would accept the decision of your 16 year old who has read whatever you recommend for them but don't trust that this family had done enough research in making their decision to have their DD vaccinated? The inference all-too-often seems to be that if one vaccinates then one hasn't researched properly because an anti-vax stance is the only possible outcome from "proper" research. And i guess i would dispute that.
post #37 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Personally, i choose not to vaccinate my children, but if my children get to a point that they are able to maturely reason with me that they want to get vaccinated, and this will be after they see all of the literature about the dangers and read through all the studies and articles to have a clear head, then I'd have to let them because it is their bodies.
At what age? Four? Ten? Seventeen?
post #38 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I think it's a grey area. My 13 year old is involved in decisions about her medical care. I speak very openly and honestly with her about things, try to get her to look at things critically, and listen to her. Ultimately I'm responsible for her right now, but I feel like this is the period of her life when I get to train her HOW to make these kinds of decisions. If I just make them for her she misses out, but if I just let her make them without teaching her to think criticially, she also misses out.

I wouldn't, BTW, force my DD to do something to her body against her will. One thing about teens is that they have plenty of ways of taking control of their bodies in destructive, rebellous ways. I think that parents who get into power struggles over this are misguided.

Once kids are old enough to drink, smoke, use illegal drugs, have sex, cut themselves with knives, etc., parents really need to pick their battles and think about how they are teaching kids to make choices rather than forcing kids to make exactly the choice the parent wants on those few things that parents actually can control. There is so much more that we really and truly don't have control over. I believe that the more we respect a teens right to control their body, the less likely they are to do something stupid just to prove us wrong.



I suspect that this is more the issue than whether or not teens should get to make their own choices regarding their bodies. I suspect that your response would have been different if the teen had wanted vaccines and the parents were against them.

I really see it the same way either way, and I believe that teens are old enough to be part of the decision. However, that only works if the parents truly are OK with the teen making either choice.




But would you be OK with your teen deciding to get the MMR? Would you be able to talk calmly to your own child? Respect her choice?


If my teen knew what she was getting into, sure. I'd let her have the MMR if she felt she needed it. I mentioned that I was antivacs because I felt the teens pain about being forced against her will about the shot. But had she wanted it, I"d be fine. I disagree with vacs, but again, it is her body, and if she is old enough to assert such a decision, then that is her right.
post #39 of 91
Let's say your 13-year-old daughter wants to move in with her 30-year-old boyfriend, and she has lots of great reasons why she should be able to. Her body, her choice?
post #40 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom View Post
I am curious, what "mature reason" would it take for you to accept the fact she wants a flu shot.

I am not being snarky but really would like to know what argument would sway a person who is anti-vac to allow their child to get something that they believe truly is detrimental to their health.
Well, if my child could give me a good enough argument, such as the benefits and not jst spout off something that she heard, but it would have to come from her, then I'd give her that choice. I disagree like hell, but when children are finding themselves and becoming independent, they are not always going to do things that the parents agree with. Trust me, I"ve done the same to my parents. Only, I"m not sure why I'm still alive because I was a pretty bad child.
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