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Parents Should Respect Their Children's Bodies and Decisions - Page 3

post #41 of 91
I'd be offended if someone who doesn't even have kids started offering me a lecture on how to be a better parent.

I really think you should've minded your own business, and you post a lot about what other people are doing parenting wise. Perhaps you need to focus on something else you can actually control?

I don't know it all just comes off as nosy, judgmental and know-it-all ish.

Get a hobby or something that will make you feel good about yourself instead of hyperfocusing on how horrible everyone else parents their children.

It's not emotionally healthy to be so concerned/emotional about other people's affairs.
post #42 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by siennasmom View Post
At what age? Four? Ten? Seventeen?
Come on, I think you are smart enough to know...

I'm not going to answer that.

Do you have to be sarcastic? i never meant for this discussion to become that way. I'm almost sorry I ever posted this topic.
post #43 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Well, if my child could give me a good enough argument, such as the benefits and not jst spout off something that she heard, but it would have to come from her, then I'd give her that choice. .
The thing is, "good argument" is subjective. A lot of the arguments I hear on both sides of the vaccine debate sound like "spouting off" to me

It seems clear that the parents of the 16 yo in question did not feel she had a good enough argument. I might not agree, but I am not walking in the shoes of a parent with a medically complex 16 yo, so....
post #44 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Come on, I think you are smart enough to know...

I'm not going to answer that.

Do you have to be sarcastic? i never meant for this discussion to become that way. I'm almost sorry I ever posted this topic.
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I really don't understand where you are drawing the line here.
post #45 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porcelain Interior View Post
I'd be offended if someone who doesn't even have kids started offering me a lecture on how to be a better parent.

I really think you should've minded your own business, and you post a lot about what other people are doing parenting wise. Perhaps you need to focus on something else you can actually control?

I don't know it all just comes off as nosy, judgmental and know-it-all ish.

Get a hobby or something that will make you feel good about yourself instead of hyperfocusing on how horrible everyone else parents their children.

It's not emotionally healthy to be so concerned/emotional about other people's affairs.
Um wow?

I'm sorry I offended you...

I'm sorry you took me as being judgemental. That was not at all my intent. You think I'm bad now? I'm actually better than I used to be. I'm just so passionate about a lot. i had a tough upbringing, thanks to my uncle who was supposed to be a loving godfather, thanks to losing almost half my childhood friends to death for various reasons and that is no lie, and being sick off and on most of my life, and sometimes, i feel like i have to save the world. i know I can't, but i sometimes see myself like that. I'm just passionate about helping others, and sometimes I come off wrong. i don't even realize it. i'm an Aspie and pretty dumb to things like that. For me, it is very tough to see gray areas. I think a lot in black and white, which compounds matters, considering i'm not NT and all that. Sorry I stirred up so much trouble. Sorry if I offended any of you all here. I was just expressing my feelings, and that was it. I thought that here was fine to do it, since I thought that tere are many who believe along my same lines--ap and natural family living and all that.
post #46 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by siennasmom View Post
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I really don't understand where you are drawing the line here.
Well, since you are being genuine, i"s def say tha tfour is far too young. They can make some decisions at that age, but nothing that severe, obviously. Ten, well, maybe? It would depend on the maturity of the child because I've seen some very mature ten year olds. I hope that this helps.
post #47 of 91
Thread Starter 
I should clarify something for the record. The child being vaccinated was not the problem, so much as forcing her to do it when she clearly stated, at the age of sixteen, that was not something she was willing to do to her body. I'm glad I'm grown and nobody can force me to make decisions like that against my will. I'm trying to decide if I want to take a certain MS drug, should they think it is a good idea, as the side affects can be almost deadly. I"dd be highly upset if someone forced that on me, and I'm twenty-five next month.
post #48 of 91
Why did she not want it?
post #49 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Um wow?

I'm sorry I offended you...

I'm sorry you took me as being judgemental. That was not at all my intent. You think I'm bad now? I'm actually better than I used to be. I'm just so passionate about a lot. i had a tough upbringing, thanks to my uncle who was supposed to be a loving godfather, thanks to losing almost half my childhood friends to death for various reasons and that is no lie, and being sick off and on most of my life, and sometimes, i feel like i have to save the world. i know I can't, but i sometimes see myself like that. I'm just passionate about helping others, and sometimes I come off wrong. i don't even realize it. i'm an Aspie and pretty dumb to things like that. For me, it is very tough to see gray areas. I think a lot in black and white, which compounds matters, considering i'm not NT and all that. Sorry I stirred up so much trouble. Sorry if I offended any of you all here. I was just expressing my feelings, and that was it. I thought that here was fine to do it, since I thought that tere are many who believe along my same lines--ap and natural family living and all that.

I've read as you've posted and yes I agree you've done a lot of self work in this area. I guess I just think you should try and distance yourself from getting involved at all in other people's parenting choices because it seems to trigger you.

I had a hellacious childhood. I try to focus my worry about my own kids. Of course if I saw abuse I'd act, but you can't get bogged down with each individual's decision even if it sets your heart to beating fast and you don't agree.
post #50 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post
I feel very badly for the girl that her parents would make her do that when she didn't want to....it is MY policy that when it comes to medical decisions like that, my kids should have a voice...this is why my son won't be circ'd etc...I consider vaccines to be permanent in their effect and would never force that upon a child. Their body doesn't BELONG to me...it is only mine to gaurd and keep in as close a state as to the one they were born in until they are adults and old enough to take the reins and eat as they please, etc....but something like that, if they could provide me with the research and information that helped them to make that choice...a TEENAGER...I would let them do what they wished.


BUT...all that being said....that is MY policy....and I respect a parents right to have a DIFFERENT policy, based upon their own values and feelings...because if I don't respect THEIR right to parent their child the way they want to, I wonder how I can expect other people to respect my right to do the same. You know? But I respect the way you handled it, OP!


I one hundred percent agree with you.
post #51 of 91
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post
I understand where the OP is coming from...and I am proud of her because it sounds like this was a discussion that they were having as friends about an issue with one of their children and like she handled it well. I think the OP discussed this issue with them in an adult manner and that was that...I don't think she lectured them or called them "bad parents" or anything like that...there was a discussion..the OP was respectful. Unless I'm reading the OP wrong?
You got the correct idea all the way. Thanks so much for that.
post #52 of 91
I won't force my teenage daughter to get the swine flu shot. But, I'll tell her to get it at school if they offer it.

She can refuse, and I will respect that. I will get that shot, and I'd like she and my husband to get it. But, it's OK if they say "no".
post #53 of 91
lol, I love that you told them how hard it is to be a teen. I'm sure the mother who was a blind woman thought the teen years were a breeze.
post #54 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaLaLaLa View Post
In my experience, when kids don't want to get shots, it's because they are afraid of the shot itself, not that they have done extensive research about the effects of a vaccine.

There are lots of medical things I make my kids do, because I am looking out for their overall well-being. My five-year-old daughter has had four major surgeries already for a facial birthmark. This summer she had one surgery, then for the twelve weeks after the surgery had an injection every week. Then another surgery at the end of the twelve weeks. Was she overly thrilled with this situation? No. I still made her do it. Next summer she'll have at least one skin graft. Also not her decision.

Sometimes parents have to make kids do things that kids don't like, which is a bummer for everyone involved. It doesn't make the parents wrong or bad parents, though.
This.

In the last two months, I had to take my 9 year old son to many appointments, including really unpleasant and painful ones. I had to hold his hands while they did a spinal tap. I had to talk him through several IV insertions, a PICC line insertion, and multiple blood draws.
And I was the one (with DH) who decided that he would get the PICC line at all. The doctor explained the pros and cons, and we *could* have gone with a different treatment plan, but both DH and I agreed that the PICC line, while more invasive, was the better treatment given the overall picture of DS's health.

We explained everything that was happening to him, and told him why it was happening. I told him it was his body and he had the right to know what was going on -- but that his father and I had made the decision, in consultation with the doctors. There were a lot of pros and cons about the decision that were really beyond him - potential consequences down the line for choosing the fewer-needles path - that he would say, at 9, he doesn't care about, but at 19 he may well have cared a LOT about.
post #55 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
Actually, my anger did not show at all. One becomes good at keeping their emotions hidden if they need to. Trust me, I've learned to do that, especially when my uncle became drunk and abusive. I could not let him see me cry. I could not let him see me be effected. so, if I want, I can go and not lead people onto how I feel. I can be calk but rage inside. i grew up like that, not being allow to cry and all. And, the conversation did go fine, as we did talk for about two hours after that, and then I went to bed. That is why I did not come back.
IME, people give off subtle and even not so subtle clues when they are holding back something like intense anger or feelings of disapproval and judgment (an thinking someone is being small minded is judgment), and others can often sense it even if they aren't fully conscious of it. I cannot imagine any kind of healthy effective conversation taking place if someone is holding on to feelings like that under the surface.

I think it's great that you say you are no longer overtly hostile towards people, but if you are still angry on the inside, you have more work to do IMO.
post #56 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post
I should clarify something for the record. The child being vaccinated was not the problem, so much as forcing her to do it when she clearly stated, at the age of sixteen, that was not something she was willing to do to her body. I'm glad I'm grown and nobody can force me to make decisions like that against my will. I'm trying to decide if I want to take a certain MS drug, should they think it is a good idea, as the side affects can be almost deadly. I"dd be highly upset if someone forced that on me, and I'm twenty-five next month.

I think the thing to keep in mind is that her parents know her best, not you. Maybe she isn't a very mature 16 year old, maybe this was a sudden decision based emotion, not fact. Maybe she wasn't really wanting to do research and based her decision off of what friends say. None of us here know, we just have to assume that the parents love their daughter and all of their actions come from a loving perspective.
post #57 of 91
You have made a lot of progress, I remember some of your earlier posts.

I just want to say, that while I may not agree with the content of your points, I do appreciate your passion.

I have always been passionate about dozens of issues, parenting and children being key among them, even before I became a parent myself... because, well, I had been a child, and I do have parents, and I often reflected on my own upbringing and made plans for my own future children based on my experiences and my research and reading.

I think it's great that you are so interested.

Having said all that, the main thing I have learned after becoming a parent is how desperate one is to protect one's children.

I would run infront of a speeding train or jump into quicksand without a second thought to save my child.

This is a fundamental change that I experienced after becoming a parent, I felt it even on a physical level, it is akin to vertigo.

I agonize over and research every detail when it comes to my child's health. Nothing keeps me up at night more than my child's well-being.

That includes vaccination.

I know most parents do the same.

Please keep this in mind and in your heart the next time you talk with friends about their precious children.

Trin.
post #58 of 91
While I am not a mother yet (so take my opinion with a grain of salt) I feel I have a decent understanding as to where the OP is coming from. I'm 20 now so have the right to make my own medical choices but have come up against some pressure from my dad to get a flu shot this year. As an adult now I refused after doing my own research but my dad still brings it up and is mostly coming from a perspective of media fear and hype. I was fully vaccinated as a child though my mom thinks she would have done it differently if she knew now what she knew then so my family and myself are not anti-vaccine.

It seems to me, however, that a 16 year old is probably mature enough to make some of her own medical decisions, or at least have some input. Of course that is dependent on the 16 year old, and the medical decision, but depending on her argument for not wanting the flu shot I think her body and her wish to not be vaccinated should have been respected. If she was coming from a place of fear or needles or doctors well then maybe her parents still need to be making these decisions for her, but if she has done her research and can present facts supporting her decision to not get the flu shot she should be respected.

Maybe in this case the parents made the best decision, it's definitely not my place to judge as I am not them or even a parent yet. I do think that perhaps they could have discussed it further and both the parents and the daughter could have listened to both sides' concerns (and maybe they did this I don't know). They also could have looked into other options for keeping their daughter healthy this flu season, regular hand washing, a real effort to keep her hands off of her face, healthy diet, exercise, vitamins, and I'm sure others have more ideas. Of course none of those measures are 100% effective but I think most people (on both sides of the debate) will agree that vaccines aren't either.

I hope I don't come off as sounding like I'm telling anyone what they should have done, that is definitely not my intent, everyone here seems to make the decisions they feel are best for their children out of love and should have every right to continue to do that without judgment from me or anyone else.
post #59 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deer Hunter View Post

I'm sorry you took me as being judgemental. That was not at all my intent. You think I'm bad now? I'm actually better than I used to be. I'm just so passionate about a lot. i had a tough upbringing, thanks to my uncle who was supposed to be a loving godfather, thanks to losing almost half my childhood friends to death for various reasons and that is no lie, and being sick off and on most of my life, and sometimes, i feel like i have to save the world. i know I can't, but i sometimes see myself like that. I'm just passionate about helping others, and sometimes I come off wrong. i don't even realize it. i'm an Aspie and pretty dumb to things like that. For me, it is very tough to see gray areas. I think a lot in black and white, which compounds matters, considering i'm not NT and all that. Sorry I stirred up so much trouble. Sorry if I offended any of you all here. I was just expressing my feelings, and that was it. I thought that here was fine to do it, since I thought that tere are many who believe along my same lines--ap and natural family living and all that.
All of us make decisions for our kids with some remembrance of what it's like to be a kid. BUT, I think that, to be a good parent, you need to be able to let your past go in regards to your own children. Parenting with the intent of righting the wrongs of your past makes children into an agenda. It makes it more about you and less about them. And when they do things you don't want, it builds resentment.

You have come a long long way since some of your previous posts, but I would encourage you to try not to make judgments about other parent's decisions based on your own past experience as a child. Your experience as a child doesn't necessarily apply to their child.
post #60 of 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by kittywitty View Post
OP, I actually agree with you. We had swim lessons 2 years ago and they decided to hold a flu shot clinic AT the swim place. It was indoors and echoey and the lessons were very expensive. So for 2 weeks (2 lessons a week) we had to sit through watching many people forced into vaccinations against their will. There were children being held down by 4+ people-and we're not talking toddlers. There were old people in wheelchairs being forced. It was a total nightmare.

I find it disgusting that we don't respect other peoples' bodies. Forcing a chemical cocktail that has been proven to be dangerous into someone is a far cry from a freaking tattoo. And in most states, that's not even legal until a certain age, anyhow.

I didn't talk with the people about their flu shot decisions. But I did round up a bunch of product inserts, highlight, and scatter them around the swim waiting room.
I'm with you. At 16, I think a long discussion - and perhaps mutual research - for both sides of a vaccination issue is warranted. 16 is almost an adult and most 16 year olds are capable of rational discussions about bodily health - and definitely have a strong sense of bodily privacy/autonomy. In this particular case, I would not have forced the vaccination on her, even if I felt personally strongly about it. I think forced vaccination is quite different than seeking emergency medical treatment, etc.
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