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Fudge, Fudge, FUDGE!!!

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Not the yummy kind, either. The "I'm upset but can't cuss on MDC" kind

There have been just a few things about Gavin's nursing that have been bothering me. I thought I was looking for problems where none existed just because of everything that happened with Connor. But finally today I took him to a lactation consultant I trust implicitly (she helped me with Connor in so many ways).

The good news--he's gaining well (although it's not quite as much as I expected it to be, he weighed 11-10 today at 4 weeks, weighed 10-10 on a different scale at 2 weeks old).

He took in 2 ounces during the session there (and that was after spitting up quite a bit, so he may have taken close to 3 ounces)

He had a big diaper blowout all over me, obviously his output is fine!

His latch looks good, tongue and lip placement is fine.

So what am I "fudging"? His freaking PALATE. Here's what she noticed:

He is "chomping" instead of suck/swallow/breathe pattern. He chomps until I get a let-down (lucky for him I get several in a feeding) then he just "accepts" the spray of milk. He is basically being sustained by my multiple let-downs.

He makes sort of a "clicking" sound from time to time. I noticed this, but thought it was flow-control, since I knew I had a strong let-down. But she suspected it was something else...so she checked his tongue. It looks good, probably not tied, but I have an appt for him with a dentist tomorrow anyway (one who is well-versed in tongue-tie). Then she checked his palate.

He has a bubble palate. Basically his hard palate (the roof of your mouth) has what looks like a "bubble", a big cave-like "hole" almost. He can't get the proper nipple placement in his mouth to extract milk efficiently. Failure to Thrive is often seen in this kind of palate problem, but again lucky for him I have a majorly abundant supply, he just has to be patient for a let-down then swallow. (that's why Connor was/is failure to thrive, he has a different palate problem and also has a swallowing disorder so despite my mega-boobs he couldn't take in enough. then he also had serious breathing issues and burned calories just trying to breathe)

I'm trying not to get to worried over this, I mean he is still doing well. But it is what's considered a "soft-marker" for the chromosomal syndrome Connor has. Gavin otherwise looks very "normal", so chances are he's perfectly fine, we'll just get him to a palate specialist to rule out a cleft, and we'll have to monitor weight gain very carefully. So I'm going to try not to get ahead of myself here. Calm, it's okay, he's okay, step-by-step I'll deal with this.
post #2 of 14
He looks so healthy and thriving in your pics, I am sure he is just great!

We have been having many issues with BFing though and I know how stressful it is, and you have the issues with Conor to color this experience too. My LO also has latch issues. . .he is very chompy till let-down and has a high palate (humped the LC called it) making the latch uncomfortable for me no matter how deep it seems we get it. And I think he takes in too much air. . .sometimes we get a clicking too. And at his 1 month appt he had only gained a lb from his 1 week appt. . .the Ped thought this was fine, but I thought he would have gained more considering how often he nurses. I keep wondering if he is just not getting enough milk, espe b/c he is so fussy.

Sigh. BFing is so much harder than I imagined!

Hang in there mama. . .you have lots of experience and clearly know your baby. I am sure you'll get it figured out!
post #3 of 14
I have no words of wisdom, but want to send support and
post #4 of 14
to you (and your mega-boobs for preventing Gavin from not getting enough food!). Good for you for trusting your instincts and getting him checked out. It may be nothing to worry about, but if it is, at least you found it early on.

Keep us posted!
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kismetbaby View Post
He looks so healthy and thriving in your pics, I am sure he is just great!

We have been having many issues with BFing though and I know how stressful it is, and you have the issues with Conor to color this experience too. My LO also has latch issues. . .he is very chompy till let-down and has a high palate (humped the LC called it) making the latch uncomfortable for me no matter how deep it seems we get it. And I think he takes in too much air. . .sometimes we get a clicking too. And at his 1 month appt he had only gained a lb from his 1 week appt. . .the Ped thought this was fine, but I thought he would have gained more considering how often he nurses. I keep wondering if he is just not getting enough milk, espe b/c he is so fussy.

Sigh. BFing is so much harder than I imagined!

Hang in there mama. . .you have lots of experience and clearly know your baby. I am sure you'll get it figured out!
Do you facebook? If so, friend me (Samantha Block) because I just posted an explanation about this palate issue effects his ability to breastfeed. I got some good pictures from Dr Palmer's website (including some cadaver pictures, which are kind of disturbing, but really show what's going on).

If you're not on FB, I'll try to copy it into word and send to you.
post #6 of 14


I just met with an IBCLC yesterday... turns out that my little guy has a lip-tie. I have to wonder how much of my supply issues are due to that being missed. I had specifically asked my MW if he was tied, because I'm tongue-tied, but we all missed the lip tie (which prevents him from making a seal).
post #7 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristeen View Post


I just met with an IBCLC yesterday... turns out that my little guy has a lip-tie. I have to wonder how much of my supply issues are due to that being missed. I had specifically asked my MW if he was tied, because I'm tongue-tied, but we all missed the lip tie (which prevents him from making a seal).
Connor had FIVE lip ties!! He had them surgically clipped when he was 11 months old (he wasn't medically stable before then). Definitely consider having it corrected, it could help a lot!
post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2boyzmama View Post
Do you facebook? If so, friend me (Samantha Block) because I just posted an explanation about this palate issue effects his ability to breastfeed. I got some good pictures from Dr Palmer's website (including some cadaver pictures, which are kind of disturbing, but really show what's going on).

If you're not on FB, I'll try to copy it into word and send to you.
Thanks good info. I will show this to my LC. . .I may wind up seeing another LC with more experience too. My LO is five weeks old and we still can't get a good latch. Seems like something must be up. Luckily, he is gaining weight and seems to be getting enough milk. My nips are still cracked and sore though. Sigh.
post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Here's Dr Palmer's page.
http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/

And here's the link where I got the pictures on my FB. Section A is where bubble palate is discussed.
http://www.brianpalmerdds.com/bfing_import.htm

And Cristeen, click on the presentations "frenum presentation" and "breastfeeding and frenums" at the top to learn about lip ties. This was one of the only places on the internet with information about lip ties!
post #10 of 14
Caleb is a chomper, too, but it started getting better this week. He has a high palette, so I've been taking him to my chiro for cranial-sacral therapy. I ended up getting some All Purpose Nipple Ointment last week because I have nipple damage from all the chomping, and I've been making sure to latch him on correctly so that his tongue can do the work. It doesn't always happen that way, but I'm making more of an effort now that I know what to do. (I pull his chin down while latching, and another tip a LLL leader told me was to put drops of milk on his lower lip to get him to start licking.)

I don't know why something so natural has to be so hard! Especially for seasoned moms who've been through the whole breastfeeding thing before...
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastrygirl
I don't know why something so natural has to be so hard! Especially for seasoned moms who've been through the whole breastfeeding thing before...
Ya know, I've been thinking about that a lot. It seems like a ton of people have trouble bfing or are labeled failure to thrive. And there are all kinds of "therapies" to teach babies the proper way to latch and suck. So much for being "natural"! Kinda makes me wonder how the human species survived to get this far!
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by diana_of_the_dunes View Post
Ya know, I've been thinking about that a lot. It seems like a ton of people have trouble bfing or are labeled failure to thrive. And there are all kinds of "therapies" to teach babies the proper way to latch and suck. So much for being "natural"! Kinda makes me wonder how the human species survived to get this far!
Yes! I know some of the problems come from living in a culture where we don't always grow up seeing other women nursing and we don't live in extended families. But still. . .I did grow up seeing women nursing and I have still had five weeks of BFing hell. Its been a huge learning curve for both me and my LO. This may be "natural", but it sure ain't easy!
post #13 of 14
Sam - when you had Connors clipped, did they put him under general? I called THE doc at Childrens that does tongue ties and was told he doesn't do lips because it requires an OR and GA, I am SO not comfortable putting my 6 wk old under general if I don't have to!!
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cristeen View Post
Sam - when you had Connors clipped, did they put him under general? I called THE doc at Childrens that does tongue ties and was told he doesn't do lips because it requires an OR and GA, I am SO not comfortable putting my 6 wk old under general if I don't have to!!
Yes, he was under general, but his was much more involved, he had 5 ties, and he also had lots of underlying medical issues that made sedation very dangerous, so he had to have general. I would think a simple lip tie could be done with only mild sedation (and yes they can sedate an infant, Connor had a sedated MRI at 8 weeks old)
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