I don't understand the hygiene argument

[BlessedMommy2006]

They say that intact penises collect smegma. Well so do intact labia. I'm not really sure why they circumcise men for hygienic reasons and not women. *shrug*

Maybe somewhere along the line, people forget that women have smegma and have to wash too?

It's just weird how they zero in on the man's equipment and totally forget the fact that women have their own hygiene requirements. (actually in a book that I read, it gave some instructions on female hygiene, recommending the soap free feminine wash and recommending washing the area daily)

Do people really think that labia are easier to wash than foreskins?

[Fyrestorm]

Just another excuse to justify an unjustifiable act!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

[MommytoB]

Plus, when parents circ their boys they sometimes do have to push back their remaining foreskins because how easier junk gets caught in there and believe me I changed plenty of those kids even when wiping you could see stuff hanging out from the remnants and your going how in the world does a kid get fuzz or lint kind of stuff in there ? Also, sometimes parents have to push/pull back the foreskin remants if it's trying to attach on the scar or attaching in someway to prevent the kid from peeing (not referring to meatal stenosis at that point)

Plus to wipe off tiny specks of feces with a wet wipe is not an easy task you would have much better luck with a wash cloth and how easy those feces are to end up in the exposed meatus hole.

So, in truth they think it's easier on the kid but wait until the kid gets older and has skin bridges one guy on one website said he has a hard time cleaning smegma underneathing his skinbridge depthness of deep as bellybutton but blocked by skin .

If they left the kid alone they would know all they had to do is go okay he has a foreskin -no worries and we will worry about it when it needs to be worried about etc .

[Papai]

It all plays on gender stereotypes. Boys are supposed to be dirty, aggressive, rough and tumble neanderthals. They can't be bother or expected to wash themselves and maintain their own hygiene. Being groomed or looking after yourself as a man, casts aspersions on your masculinity. If you care too much about how you look or how clean you are, you're "metrosexual."

But it's perfectly acceptable to expect that a woman has "folds" to clean or has to pay extra special attention to their genitalia. After all, they already menstruate.

This sexist attitude that fuels this argument is blatant. You hear it in things like, "Oh, trust me, I have boys and they're so yucky and dirty that there's no way they could keep their foreskin clean!" or "I have a hard enough time getting my boys to take a bath regularly."

[SlackerDad]

Skinbridge?

[calngavinsmom]

yeah, it's funny isn't it? my two sons love, love, love to have a shower or bath. my eldest is very much into sports and comes home covered in dirt every day pretty much (lots of laundry in my house lol) but he is actually the one who is asking me right quick if he can have a shower, not the other way around. and since he was small there has always been a certain body part that i never have to remind him to wash

sexual stereotyping has always bothered me to my core in any capacity, but using it as a justification for circ just brings it to an all new level of bad imo.

take care,

[MommytoB]

Originally Posted by SlackerDad

Skinbridge?

A skin bridge is a penile skin adhesion, most frequently occurring as a consequence of circumcision. It is formed when, after circumcision, the inner lining of the remaining foreskin attaches to another part of the penis as the cut heals

[Ron_Low]

What I don't like about the hygiene argument, aside from the idea of an infant's penis healing in a fouled diaper, is the utter mis-use of the word hygiene.

Sometime in the past maybe somebody said "if you leave him intact then you can't neglect hygiene."

Hygiene just means "proper care," but I think people on BOTH SIDES of this issue sometimes equate hygiene with furious incessant scrubbing to purge all germs. The proper care of a normal mammalian penis is to leave it alone.

When someone is old enough to care how his penis smells or tastes, he can make his own decision about whether amputation or washing is the best way to conform to societal expectations. Just as with our underarms, there is nothing unhygenic about going natural (using only the outflow of urine to keep the foreskin sanitary). It's purely a matter of conformity.

Foreskin hygiene = leave it alone.

[Storm Bride]

What I don't like about the hygiene argument (okay - I don't like anything about the hygiene argument, but this is my pet peeve) is the idea that creating an open wound in someone who wears a diaper makes sense from a hygiene perspective. Every time I think about an infant boy with a fresh circ sitting in a wet, or worse, dirty, diaper, even for a few seconds, I just feel ill. I mean...blech...this is hygiene??

[bandgeek]

I think a lot of women don't realize they have smegma. I didn't know until I started really researching circ. I remember my sister asking me what the white stuff was around her newborn girl's labia and she just had no clue! I told her ALL about it. A few weeks later she called me and told me that her MIL had "cleaned her DD out too well" and she was a bit red looking. She actually said, "She wiped away all her good girly stuff!" I just told her to tell her MIL that being aggressive is not helpful.

I heard from one person, "Oh I thought the white stuff was TP residue." Well, yeah, maybe some of it, but the stickier stuff isn't.

But then again, a LOT of women are entirely too obsessed with cleanliness and scrub it all out every chance they get. They probably DO see the "benefits" of not having a place for it to collect. But most women are not like that and understand when I tell them that YES, intact boys/men have smegma, but so do they/their daughters.

You just have to educate, educate, educate.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Originally Posted by SlackerDad

Skinbridge?

This is what one looks like if you want to see WARNING PICTURES OF ADULT GENITALS http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html

This is one of the more common complications that can arise with circ the smaller ones dont usually cause to much of an issue but they can and do get sore underneath if they dont take care when washing especially after sex. My dh is one of the ones to havea bridgeThe urologist offered to snip it for him during his V but dh told him to leave it alone. It is just part of who dh is to me.

[mntnmom]

It's fueled by ignorance and rumor. "My sister's roommate in college, dated this guy..." Most of the people who share these stories have never seen an intact penis, let alone been close enough to tell whether it's clean!! But it's sensational. I but it in the same ugly category as some of the "stories" I heard about spiders in black girls' hair. It has NO foundation, and is used to perpetuate some societal value, such as segregation.. or infant mutilation. I has NOTHING to do with a logical argument.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X

This is what one looks like if you want to see WARNING PICTURES OF ADULT GENITALS http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched1sb.html

Okay...that made me want to hurl. I'd never seen that before. As I never even considered circ, and wouldn't have allowed it under any circumstance, I never really looked into the possible side effects...I feel ill.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Okay...that made me want to hurl. I'd never seen that before. As I never even considered circ, and wouldn't have allowed it under any circumstance, I never really looked into the possible side effects...I feel ill.

These complications aren't reported as possible complications though..When parents are giving 'consent' these things are never mentioned. If they happen, men are not told this was done to them on purpose or that it had anything to do with their surgery. It's not counted in statistics...it just is 'normal' male developement

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

These complications aren't reported as possible complications though..When parents are giving 'consent' these things are never mentioned. If they happen, men are not told this was done to them on purpose or that it had anything to do with their surgery. It's not counted in statistics...it just is 'normal' male developement

I wouldn't be surprised if a significant percentage of doctors can't tell parents that these are circ complications, because they don't know themselves.

I looked at that whole page, and the skin bridges weren't the worst, but they made me feel sick. There's another one that may give me nightmares tonight...and I'm not prone to nightmares.

Going to hug both my intact boys, but I won't tell them why.

[Fyrestorm]

I had to tell my DH (in front of the urologist) that his Meatal Stenosis was a direct complication of his genital cutting. The urologist knew this and wouldn't admit it until after I threw it in his face.

[Storm Bride]

for your dh.

As far as I can tell, dh hasn't suffered any complications of circ...just missing his entire foreskin, is all. Mind you, I've never seen a real life, adult penis that wasn't circ'd. It's my age, I think...

[jenP]

Originally Posted by Papai

This sexist attitude that fuels this argument is blatant. You hear it in things like, "Oh, trust me, I have boys and they're so yucky and dirty that there's no way they could keep their foreskin clean!" or "I have a hard enough time getting my boys to take a bath regularly."

I agree.
It seems like the attitude is, "well, you could neglect to circumcise, but you will have to make sure that penis gets scrubbed or else!"
Even lots of pro-intact people seem to emphasize how to clean the penis regularly in the shower, once it is fully retractable. For instance, when someone says they may circ their son because it is "cleaner," the typical response is, "You don't need to circumcise, how hard is it for a guy to take a shower?"
I'm not sure I really get this. I don't think it really needs to be washed at all, from a health perspective. Sure, if you want to smell nice or whatever. But seriously, I go a week or more at a time without a shower and the only side effect is BO. Oh, and my skin is softer 'cause I'm not washing away the oils. I don't get any vaginal infections from not showering. I really don't think intact guys would be any more prone to problems if they don't wash, either. So yeah, I don't get the hygiene argument either. Plus what someone pointed out about the fresh wound in the poopy diaper - real hygienic, that.

Jen

[MeAndVee]

In some countries woman do have varying parts of their genitals cut off. In a part of Africa girls are dragged out into the jungle, sat on by large village woman, while another woman takes a dull blade and cuts away her labia and clitoris. Varies from mild to exterme. Any bit is very much a violation of her right to remain whole.

And back in I believe the Victiorian era, I could be wrong, woman were discouraged from wearing restricing garments {like panties}. Why you may ask? Because it would restrict air flow and the vulva would rot.