I think it's a lost cause. :(

[Down2Earth]

I think I went about this all wrong or something. I always wanted to do EC part-time, just be really easy and laid back about it. I didn't want to even try this if it was going to be an added stress in my life. So I've been putting DD on the potty since she was maybe 10 wks. She would go in the potty about half the time. But I always seemed to have a hard time noticing her cues. I don't think she had any cues, not even for poops. And she would never fuss or cry when she had a wet diaper, and she was in cloth so I know she had to be feeling it.

Anyway, DD is now 1 yo and we don't seem to have made any progress in the last 9 months. She doesn't like diaper changes which I think is a pretty typical behavior. But she is pretty patient on the potty. She will sit and play with a toy or look at a book. I still use the potty sign and say something like, "Use the potty." And when I hear her go I praise her and do the sign and say, "You went potty!"

But she has never asked to use the potty. She doesn't ever use the potty sign. She'll repeat the word "potty" after me but it doesn't mean that she needs to go. We are down to about 30-40 dirty diapers a week, but I think that is because she holds it longer because she has gotten older.

I have a "friend" who really likes to rub it in my face that DD isn't PL'd. (When I was pregnant I told her what EC was all about.)

I guess this is my long-winded way of asking what do I do next? Do we just keep doing what we've been doing? Will it just "click" one day and she'll be telling us and using the potty? Did I just screw up the whole EC thing and now need to do a more traditional PLing when she's older?

Please, any advice is appreciated.

[Carlyle]

The best advice I have to you is to tell the "friend" who's making it into a competition to piss off. But I'm ornery tonight, so there you have it.

Don't worry about it. The fact that your daughter can already hold it for so long and is familiar with the potty is such a great thing (how many other 1 year olds do you know who can do both of those things?).

I think the laid back approach is such a great way to go--you don't have to invest huge amounts of time (so you don't have to worry about proving anything or making it "worth the time I put into it"), but it just becomes part of your routine, so it's not something sudden that you spring on your kid when YOU are ready to potty train, you know?

I think you should just keep doing what you're doing. It sounds like you're doing great. Keep your eye out for signs that your lo is ready to try more--at this point she knows the deal and will probably let you know when she starts to care, you know? Lots of kids have a big leap forward at about a year and a half, so maybe something will happen then. Good luck! (And give your "friend" a wedgie for me or something okay?)

[sapphire_chan]

she's a one year old baby and she's not telling you in advance?

Sorry, I'm laughing because I've got a 14 month old and I have a distant dream that maybe when she's 18 months she might tell me in advance once a week.

She's also, in the last month, used the potty sign about 3 times, all while peeing already.

Finally, pee cues are a myth. They happen for some people and that's great. It took me a year, but letting go of the cues and focusing on timing made my life so much easier.

That said, after going to timing for a couple weeks, I started picking up on cues, but they were reverse cues, signs that she wasn't in the mood to be offered a potty-unity right then and I should wait a bit.

Now, in general, I offer when I use the bathroom myself, which has reduced refusals to a few a day and misses to 2-3 a day. Good enough.

[sapphire_chan]

As for your friend, try asking
"do you feel that your comment will improve our friendship?"

[kimmypoo]

You sound like us a few months ago. We casually ec'd since she was 7 months. (She's 16 months now.) And she never gave us a sign or cue, until a couple months ago. She started grabbing her diaper and saying "Poopy"
I would take her to the potty, but she already poo'd. I thought well, at least she sorta gets it. Then about a month ago, she said "Poopy" and I asked her if she needed to potty and she nodded. So I took her and she pooped on the potty! (Of course, when I started bragging about her she stopped telling us. )
So long story short, she'll get it...and then forget it and get it again
Just keep doing what you're doing.

[Down2Earth]

It makes sense that it will probably get easier once DD is walking and communicating better. I was getting worried because my EC book said most EC'd babies are PL'd between 6 mo and 1 year. That made me think she should be dry more often. I'm now laughing at myself, I am so delusional!

I have issues with this friend that I really shouldn't let affect my DD. She's sort of mean to me. When we were at an all day event we ran into this woman. She asked how old DD was (6 mo) and then patted DD's bottom and laughed at me. "She's wearing a diaper! I thought you were going to have her potty trained by now. Bwuhahaha!!" And I'm then the clueless first time mom that had unreasonable expectations. Boohoo, I'm such a whiny baby.

Leaving aside the drama, do you think continuing to put her on the potty and using the sign is productive? I guess it doesn't hurt to keep doing what we are doing.

Has anyone else done a part-time EC thing. When did your LO stay consistently dry during the day? 16 mo?

[paulamc]

Funny that I should reply with encouragement, since I've been feeling a bit like you lately. But DS is 13 months old, and just in the past day we've had a couple of breakthroughs!

Normally he wakes up with a very wet diaper. Also, he has rarely done the potty sign for us. He nursed less last night, waking only at 12:30 and 4am. Well, this morning when we woke up, we were sort of lounging on the mattress when he got a look of distress on his face and then did the potty sign. Well I rushed him downstairs. DH took off his diaper - it was dry!!! And he peed in the potty.

He's definitely doing the potty sign a lot more just in the past two or three days or so. His signing has generally taken off a bit in the past few weeks.

Sooooo....... I'm feeling like it's not such a lost cause! DS also hates, hates hates for me to put him up on the changing table and take off his diaper. I am feeling like the key to progress right now is to switch to trainers so we can just pull his pants and trainer down, and stick him on the potty without putting him through the ordeal of being laid out on the changing table etc... I figure he's less likely to tell us he wants to go since he hates that process so much. He cries every time!

As for your friend, I would just be nonchalant with her and say that you're just so happy that he has gotten used to the feeling of peeing in the potty, because so many babies are frightened of going any way other than in a diaper when it comes time to potty train. That in itself is a huge benefit. In fact, I bet you'll make some unexpected progress in the next couple of months!

[Carlyle]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth

I was getting worried because my EC book said most EC'd babies are PL'd between 6 mo and 1 year.

Let me guess... "Diaper Free" by Ingrid Bauer? That's why I don't like that book...it sets unrealistic expectations (in my opinion) and then makes it sound like you're "doing it wrong" if you aren't PL'd super early.

Originally Posted by Down2Earth

Leaving aside the drama, do you think continuing to put her on the potty and using the sign is productive?

Yes, definitely. It's all worth it, in my opinion. In terms of when the actual "graduation" happens...I did pretty full time ec and my lo wasn't what *I* would consider potty trained until around she was 2 years, 3 months old. (and what I mean by potty trained in this case is that she told me consistently when she had to go, and I would help her go. I only asked if she needed to go if we were about to head out for a while and getting to the potty would be harder.)

[JMJ]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth

I was getting worried because my EC book said most EC'd babies are PL'd between 6 mo and 1 year.

6 months! Are you kidding me? There's a book that says that some kids are done by 6 months?! Wow. Maybe if their parents were able to give them 100% of their attention all the time and potties were readily available on a moment's notice, a kid could be done by 6 months. I'm guessing that's in a more traditional culture where extended families live together and babies can go anywhere. I've heard that 12-24 months is more like it, and some kids take even longer. Many EC kids are not any earlier than their PTing counterparts.

Being "done" is not the goal. Communicating is... and keeping your baby comfortable. She'll be "done" when she's ready.

[orangefoot]

My EC'd babe is now 3 and a bit and she wasn't potty learned any faster than my other kids really - she just spend zero time with poo stuck to her bum.

She could hold on until we got home from about 8mo and didn't we had no misses during the night from about 1yo. we had misses and wet patches in odd places and very little 'communication' sometimes but we were happy that we were helping her sty dry and clean.

Hang on in there! And piss off is a very apt thing to say to your 'friend'

[Down2Earth]

Originally Posted by paulamc

Sooooo....... I'm feeling like it's not such a lost cause! DS also hates, hates hates for me to put him up on the changing table and take off his diaper. I am feeling like the key to progress right now is to switch to trainers so we can just pull his pants and trainer down, and stick him on the potty without putting him through the ordeal of being laid out on the changing table etc... I figure he's less likely to tell us he wants to go since he hates that process so much. He cries every time!

DH and I were just talking about how much easier it would be if we only had to pull down panties instead of the whole diaper change thing. DD hates it, too!

Originally Posted by JMJ

Being "done" is not the goal. Communicating is... and keeping your baby comfortable. She'll be "done" when she's ready.

Thanks for the reminder! I feel like printing this out and reading it over and over. Thanks so much.

Originally Posted by orangefoot

My EC'd babe is now 3 and a bit and she wasn't potty learned any faster than my other kids really - she just spend zero time with poo stuck to her bum.

Good point!

Originally Posted by orangefoot

Hang on in there! And piss off is a very apt thing to say to your 'friend'

[lisavark]

OP, some cultures say their children are "potty trained" by 6 months to one year, but their definition of "potty trained" is different from ours! I think it generally means that babies mostly poop on the potty and pee on the dirt floor or outside on the ground.

[hrsmom]

I sure had unrealistic expectations going into this! And looking back on how it's been so far, I wouldn't change a thing! (I'd change getting frustrated from time to time, but I trade how it's actually gone for my expectations, if that makes sense.) Sometimes hearing what other bbies do is only part of the story. I can in all truthfulness say that she signalled verbally that she needed to pee, before she needed to pee, when she was about 9 months old. She made a "th" sound, and all in all, she did that about 8 times total? But she did tell me at that early age. She also pooped in her pants almost every day from 10-17 months! From a little before 18 months (she's 19 months now) she had around 3-5 misses a week, quite a few dry days in there. The past few days she mostly used her pants, including for one poop, while we were at my mom's. We just got home and she took herself potty on her own.

Reading the stages of EC grad hood really helped. Maybe someone can post them or I will when I come back.

Someone asked me if she was potty trained too, but not at 6 months! You're doing great and you're not the only one who expected it to look different!

Mostly right now saying the word "potty" means that she wants to go play on the potty. If I'm slow (because I know she wants to play and I don't really want to take her) she'll say she needs to poo. Babies are so smart!

ETA- my baby rarely fussed when wet past the age of 1, either.

[kimmypoo]

Originally Posted by Down2Earth

Has anyone else done a part-time EC thing. When did your LO stay consistently dry during the day? 16 mo?

Consistently? Uh, well, I'll let you know when we get there.
We only caught ONE pee this past week! But I think it's a power thing where she only wants to go when it's her idea and I think I've been pushing a little too hard. And I think she may have another tooth trying to come in.
Anyway, just relax and don't overthink it. It'll happen when it happens.

[hrsmom]

Here are the phases:
Phase 1: Staying dry pretty reliably with mom's help
Phase 2: Signalling rather consistantly, needing occasional reminders
Phase 3: Independence in going potty
Phase 4: Self sufficient, including wiping.

I was thinking, too, that my dd from about 4-7ish months was pretty dry, I'd say a typical day was 1-2 misses, with some exceptions, of course. We had quite a few 24-hour periods with no misses. I held her or wore her almost all day and catches were pretty easy. Misses typically occurred when I was working. Once she started crawling, we missed a lot more pees, and then as I said missed a bunch of poops for awhile there. So just because she was relatively dry at 6 months doesn't mean she was going to stay that way!

[Down2Earth]

Thanks for the list of phases. That really puts everything in perspective. I know most people equate a child being potty trained with the child doing all the work (taking themself to the potty, removing clothes, clean up) but I'll just be happy when DD can communicate more so I can help her stay clean and dry.

It really helps when MDC mamas can help me see when I have unreasonable expectations. I don't know anyone IRL who is as crunchy and different as I am. So it pretty hard getting good advice.

[pixiepunk]

i part-time EC'd my first two and they were both consistently dry around the age of 2 yo. a couple months prior to that for when at home (DD1 was about 20-21 months i think and DS 22 months... i think somewhere in there), but we still had the occasional miss when out and about for a while after that,so when people ask i usually just say 2. from what i've read that's pretty typical for part-time EC.

but for me i didn't and don't EC because i expect them to be potty trained at a particular (or super early) age. I think that Natural Infant Hygiene is a great description, because when they're infants potty learning isn't even on the brain, it's just about keeping them clean and not sitting around in their own excrement. and of course the communication is key. it's great when you have a kid who signals (my littlest has been a great signaller from day 1, lucky me) but i think EC is even more important for kids who don't have that awareness. the kind of kid who is a super signaller is probably the same kid who always would be uncomfy in a diaper and is the kid who makes people potty-training 3 yo's want to scream because they "just started asking to the sit on the potty when they were 18 months and we never used diapers again."

as for the whole 6-12 months being a grad thing... it's a weird time period to expect babies to be grad, IMO, because that's when they're hitting so many milestones - teething, crawling, cruising, then walking, signing, talking... it's the most common phase for a pause in fact. and besides, every kid is so different, it's really no use to have expectations like that (or any other really ) because ya know, the kid didn't read the book! they're just doing what they do and growing and learning at their own pace. but at any rate i assume that the author was talking about a very full-time EC relationship, i think it's an unrealistic expectation even for full-time EC, but definitely for part-time EC.

as for your "friend"... well i personally have no use for those kinds of people. you're not my friend if you ridicule me every time you perceive that i've made a mistake (which you haven't even, but that's how she perceives it). if you feel like saying anything to her next time she makes such an idiotic comment, it should be something along the lines of "does it make you feel better about letting your child sit around in his/her own excrement when you put me down for keeping my child clean?" but honestly i think you need to evaluate whether you need a negative person like that in your life. i'm sure next it'll be your extended nursing or gentle discipline or some other thing you do that she thinks is beneath her. she sounds pretty toxic.

[lisavark]

Originally Posted by pixiepunk

if you feel like saying anything to her next time she makes such an idiotic comment, it should be something along the lines of "does it make you feel better about letting your child sit around in his/her own excrement when you put me down for keeping my child clean?"

pixiepunk, will you sit on my shoulder and whisper great comebacks to mean remarks in my ear? Thanks.

[emmaegbert]

its SO not too late!! I never heard of EC w/ DS and I just got a potty which he occasionally used starting around 15m. Then he was diaper free in the mornings, then around 21m we went on a trip to a house w/out carpets for a month and we just got rid of daytime dipes and that was it. Pretty painless. He still had misses/accidents, but for the most part was done w/ dipes around then. Really none of those battles of will you hear about w/ older PLing kids.

Now we do P/T EC w/ our baby daughter- I had high hopes to do it F/T but like you said in the OP, I knew it couldn't be something that would add stress to my life. But its fine! I let go of worrying if I am perfect about it and focus on how many FEWER diapers we use, how RARE it is for DD to have poo on her, etc. Even if she's only peeing a couple times a day in the potty, she definitely knows what it is and what it is for, and this is going to be a normal part of her life from the get-go.

[pixiepunk]

Originally Posted by lisavark

pixiepunk, will you sit on my shoulder and whisper great comebacks to mean remarks in my ear? Thanks.

i'd be glad to!