Televison Evangalists and Big box churches

[LVale]

I have a very dear friend who is caught up in the word of faith and prosperity gospel. The whole Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers stuff. She is giving them money hand over foot, and I want to gently let her know, this is not the way of Jesus. They only take the feel good parts of the Bible, and leave the rest out. There is no repenting, being humble, etc. I want her to know the way to God's salvation is through good works, and not following false prophets. What to do?

[umsami]

I have to say that whenever I catch Joyce Meyers, she always cracks me up. :

I remember hearing her many many years ago talk about how God wanted her to have a maid... and all I could think was, "Gee, I hope God wants me to have a maid too!"

I don't know if a direct conversation would work, but what about doing a Bible study together? Maybe find one that relates to finances (Crown Ministries has an excellent program)... I did it probably 15 years ago, and it still impacts my life.

I remember an article from "Discipleship Journal" (excellent mag BTW) on "Should a Christian Drive a Lexus?" http://www.pdadisciple.info/money/11.htm

Richard Foster had a really good book called "Celebration of Discipline." Also, an excellent one called "Devotional Classics." Can't recommend them highly enough.

Finally, I read a great book last week called "Amish Peace." Can't speak highly enough about it... really short 3-4 page chapters on various topics and then questions to make you think.

I guess what I'm trying to say is try and provide more spiritual "meat" and see if that helps. Also, definitely keep her in prayer.

HTH.

[CherryBomb]

Uggggh, prosperity "gospel" makes me sick. How to approach it I think depends on your personality and relationship. I don't really have any advice on what to say since it would come from a Catholic perspective, and my experience is prosperity types don't care for us. Good luck.

[umsami]

Originally Posted by CherryBomb

Uggggh, prosperity "gospel" makes me sick. How to approach it I think depends on your personality and relationship. I don't really have any advice on what to say since it would come from a Catholic perspective, and my experience is prosperity types don't care for us. Good luck.

CherryBomb... Is there anything similar in Catholic circles or is it an Evangelical phenomenon? I would guess not.. with vows of poverty... emphasis on humility and service... but I was just curious. I sort of wonder if that also could be behind the ban on priests marrying... with wives come children (often)...and then the desire for more and more things for one's family, etc. : Just rambling on a Saturday to avoid doing some last minute cramming for a physiology test.

[genifer]

Very interesting. I can listen to these guys for so long then be like 'Wha?' We were watching the God channel (not my favourite, lots of this stuff on there, but anyway) the other day and one of them (Kenneth Copeland, ) was talking about Job and why did satan want to mess with job, talking about faith and all the right stuff then he said 'Satan wanted Job's money!' Dh and I were like 'Huh?' Where does it say that?

Im not sure what to say actually about your friend. I would suggest a bit of praying before you approach it with her tho. Then take it from there. I dont have any other advice, Im quite wary of lots of preachers and bible studies until I do some research about them so I wont suggest anything to you. A few years ago a book called 'Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger' by Rick Sider, I think, fell into my lap and thats a great read. Lots of great points. Its old but if you can find it its worth reading.

Honestly tho, the BEST thing to do is doing some studying of your own, seeking God on how to approach the subject. You may not be the one to lead her one way or the other, but you'll be wiser on the subject.

[Bluegoat]

I don't have any experience with this aspect of religion, but I remember a character in a novel that came under the influence of a preist who thought this way. He later became disenchanted when it offered nothing to deal with the more difficult parts of life. His friend told him, "You created God in your own image, and he didn't live up to your expectations. You shouldn't be surprised"

[genifer]

Bluegoat, I was actually thinking the same thing. That she may just become disillusioned with it in time and go seeking some one deeper. Thats why I kept praying...

You mentioned that book before in another thread I bumped into you on, do you recall the name of the book?

[cappuccinosmom]

Gotta say first of all, not all tv/radio evangelists and big box churches are the same. There are some good ones out there.

That said, I don't think there's much you can do for her right now. It's hard to argue a person out of something that feels and sounds so good, and that promises so much.

You can pray for her and engage in conversations about it, but most importantly be there to help her when she finds out God is not a cosmic gumball machine as these people teach. If you want to try to give her something, Randy Alcorn's little books on money and stewardship are *excellent*. She won't be able to say he's anti-wealth (he's not, very few people actually believe we're all called to vows of poverty, ), but he has great solid Biblical teachings that counter this "prosperity gospel" stuff.

[BMG580]

She could also check out:

Rich Christians In An Age of Hunger

and

The Scandal of the Evangelical Conscience by Ronald Sider

and

The Irresistible Revolution by Shane Claiborne.

I am Catholic and neither of these authors are but their messages in their book are important for all Christians, no matter the denomination. This problem of modern consumerism is BY FAR the thing I struggle with the most as a Christian. And I will admit that my move away from Protestant evangelical Christianity began with my discomfort at the prosperity/feel good messages coming out of many of the pulpits of churches I visited. I mean, how many expensive ties can Joel Osteen really justify?!

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by genifer

Bluegoat, I was actually thinking the same thing. That she may just become disillusioned with it in time and go seeking some one deeper. Thats why I kept praying...

You mentioned that book before in another thread I bumped into you on, do you recall the name of the book?

Yes, it's Fifth Business, by Robertson Davies, my all time favorite author. The protagonist, Dunstan Ramsey, is an expert on saints, among other things.

[JenBuckyfan]

Prior to following Joel did she attend a different denomination's church? Are there events in her life that may have caused her to seek the positive words? If this is her first encounter with christianity then maybe she just needs time to grow in her faith to understand that there is more depth and other sides to the scripture she's currently encountering. If she followed a different pastor/preacher previously, she is maybe seeking something that she feels is missing in her life right now.

You didn't say you were going to do this, but I'll throw in that I wouldn't be too quick to engage her in a discussion on why you don't like who she's following, that may be insulting to her and/or close off the topic to any future conversations. I think it's safe, if it comes up in conversation, that although you're happy that so many people are looking to hear good words, that you don't agree with Joel's theology. If she really has a passion for this type of theology, then I think the best thing you can do is just support her in the best way that you can by being her friend and accepting that her view of God is different at this time. There are so many denominations that have differing views and I believe each person tries to seek what is best for them - for example, as a Lutheran, I don't believe that the way to salvation is through good works. I have a decent historical background as to why I believe in the theology that I do and my values are built upon my understanding of faith, God and the Bible. See where your friend is at and if she seems open to dialogue then go for it, if not, then just be her friend and work to agree to disagree on your views regarding faith. (My DH and I have friends and family of other denominations and religions and we all look past our differences and for me, that's ok, even though I disagree with some of their beliefs.)

[hrsmom]

I have listened to a wide variety of teachings on my journey, and followed some. I would probably just let her walk through this. I always remember that God always finishes a work he started. He won't give up on your friend.