Which kind of insulation do you prefer?

[yaM yaM]

The kind you blow into the attic with a blower and is like shredded newspaper or the fiberglass kind that unrolls? What is it you like about the one you prefer?

[yaM yaM]

Anyone?

[lucyem]

They all are great depending on how they are installed. Not to mention price and where you are using it. We usually blow in the insulation for the attic so we can get it to a certain depth and use the rolls or spray foam on the walls. Though limited spray foam, the cost is prohibitive and it has a tendency to be hard to install for a novice and then you get issues.

[HeatherAtHome]

So far DH has done fine doing spray foam by himself. (First time just a couple weeks ago!) If you're doing rolls, use something other than that pink fiberglass stuff. DH just cleaned some old icky stuff out of the attic and it's disgusting. Mice and squirrels got into it... We're also using Roxul batting. It's supposed to be vermin proof.

[Carson]

It really depends on your home and some other preferences. When we did it in our old house, I spent a good amount of time researching and found this helpful info:
http://www.naima.org/pages/resources.../pdf/BI475.PDF

We ended up going with the batts. I think because we were more familiar with the install and it was really just a personal preference. This time around, we're going to do the spray foam insulation instead. ETA - Heather, that's awesome your DH DIYed it - we're huge DIYers and really hate having to hire someone.

[yaM yaM]

Thanks for the feedback, mamas. Carson, thank you for that link -- I am going to go study it for a bit. That is exactly what I was hoping to find.

[SleeplessMommy]

The Naima link may contain some bias.

NAIMA is the association for North American manufacturers of fiber glass, rock wool, and slag wool insulation products. Its role is to promote energy efficiency and environmental preservation through the use of fiber glass......

I am trained as a residential energy auditor - to recommend cost effective ways to reduce household energy costs. In the "home performance" business, cellulose is routinely preferred over fiberglass for several reasons:
* improved air sealing between house and attic (to reduce exit of heated air from your home)
* because of wind washing problems with fiberglass.
* because of poor fiberglass installation at home construction sites, leaving holes in the wall and attic insulation layers. (these can be seen with IR cameras)
* cellulose has a lower carbon footprint
* fiberglass had formaldehyde binders

I have put fiberglass in many houses, and it did reduce energy costs, but I won't be doing it again.

The very best way to do an empty attic floor would be spray foam - just enough to seal all of the drywall joints and wall/ceiling intersections in the attic. You can do just the seams or a continuous layer. Spray foam costs $2 a board foot (professionally installed) or about half that with a large 2-part "professional" kit, such as Tigerfoam or EFI. (DIY is a pretty tricky job, with risks. Read the instructions before you order - they may talk you out of it.) After the spray foam is done, cellulose is added up to or above the DOE level for your zip code.
http://www.ornl.gov/~roofs/Zip/ZipHome.html

If you are doing an attic ceiling space (for example to make an attic into a living space) then you need as much "R" value per inch as possible. Spray foam or "blue board" would be the way to go, with blown in or spray cellulose as a 2nd choice.

[yaM yaM]

SleeplessMommy, thank you. I am seeing that it is good to get as much information as possible on this subject and that it is quite complex. That is good to know about the formaldehyde because I really want to avoid/minimize the toxic stuff. So you think the cellulose is the best option?

I am wanting to add insulation to the attic floor for insulating the house below, only. The attic in my house is not suitable for living space or things.

[HeatherAtHome]

More on DIY sprayfoam:

(I've mentioned this somewhere on MDC, but I'll write it here too)

DH did a lot of research before deciding to do it. He read up online, watched youtube videos, talked to our ecoenergy inspector (he had some knowledge) and read the manual very carefully. He also had a friend who just had his basement walls professionally sprayed and was able to get some pointers from him.

The kit comes with two tanks A & B the same shape and size as propane tanks. The liquid goes through a hose and meets at the nozzle/gun where it combines in a chemical reaction to make the foam. It's pretty stinky so use proper ventilation.

He read that most people were having problems because they would stop for 30 seconds or more which causes the foam to harden in the nozzle causing a backup. If you keep trying to go, there's too much pressure and I guess it could start coming out of the tank (?) You have to either NOT stop (seriously, it goes so fast!) or change your nozzle if you stop for more than 30 seconds.

When we were doing walls, DH would spray and I would go behind him, pointing out any thin spots once he'd finished a section. I'm so not going up in the attic though so he's on his own.

Oh, also, you're not supposed to spray foam around electrical wires because it could cause an electrical fire (I'm not 100% sure on the how etc, it's just something I remember our inspector saying). He said there's a special wiring you can use that's metal/mesh/wrapped (I so can't remember, do your research about this!). For us it's not a huge deal because we don't have wiring in outside walls... our house is made from logs.

We bought our kit from Reno Depot (in Canada).

[SleeplessMommy]

The attic is totally empty right now?

The very best thing to do is air seal (one or two part foam) then insulate with cellulose. Spraying the area lightly with water may improve sticking of 1-part foam. While you are at it, make drywall "boxes" around recessed light fixtures - there is minimum size for these, google it. Link here: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?...vement_sealing

After you are done with the attic, weatherstrip the hatch or access and leave it alone.

If the attic is small, bring in a spray foam contractor or weatherization contractor. The colder your climate, the easier to find this contractor.

The 2-part foam is more commonly used in Canada than USA ... I have to mail order it here, from www.efi.org. They also have some extra-large sized cans of 1-part foam.

[bezark]

Sorry to hijack -
We're buying a 110 year old house from my grandparents very soon. The heating costs are ridiculous. Their oil budget (over 12 months) is $380/month this year.
I know that part of the reason for this is that the place is really big, and the windows - if they're not original to the house then they haven't been replaced since at least the 1950's - but it's just an old, plaster-walled house that was someone's summer home a long, long time ago.

The attic is semi-finished (wood floors and plaster walls, but no air ducts or electrical outlets) and DH wants to make it more living space, so insulating the floor up there is out.

Is there a way to insulate the walls on the first 2 floors? Preferably one that doesn't involve ripping out the plaster and putting in drywall.

[SleeplessMommy]

Bezark -

You should find an energy auditor locally and get good solid advice. (PM me your location is you need a name.) The auditor will also have names of local contractors. Some of the jobs can be done more easily before you get settled and have your final paint coats in place.

If there is no knob and tube wiring, the walls can be insulated with dense-pack cellulose. This is done from inside or outside though small holes, no need to take down plaster. A great idea for large, drafty houses.

The attic can be insulated just under the roof, there are several ways to do this. You also need to look at the efficiency of your oil burner - it may be cost effective to convert to a different fuel system or systems.

The windows might be improved with weatherstripping or glass storm windows - it really depends on what the condition is, if they are single or double pane and where you live. There are additional ways to lower energy costs, such as air sealing - a local person would be able to go into more detail.

Energy incentives by state are listed here:
http://www.dsireusa.org/

[crunchy_mama]

We did spray in foam insulation. We had it professionally done, even if we wanted to diy it wouldn't have been a possibility here as the guy we had do it is the only one in our area(we live rurally) and he just started. WE were the first house they did the complete house w/ the spray foam. We had to have them come back a few times because the guy had it a bit thin in spots and in the end it was very, very well covered. They brought the company owner out to doublecheck in the end.

We had blow in cellulose in the house before the fire and liked that as well. I cannot accurately compare any energy savings though as we increased the house size and family size. I would not do bat insulation myself. I would do the best you can afford.

[bezark]

Originally Posted by SleeplessMommy

Bezark -

You should find an energy auditor locally and get good solid advice. (PM me your location is you need a name.) The auditor will also have names of local contractors. Some of the jobs can be done more easily before you get settled and have your final paint coats in place.

If there is no knob and tube wiring, the walls can be insulated with dense-pack cellulose. This is done from inside or outside though small holes, no need to take down plaster. A great idea for large, drafty houses.

The attic can be insulated just under the roof, there are several ways to do this. You also need to look at the efficiency of your oil burner - it may be cost effective to convert to a different fuel system or systems.

The windows might be improved with weatherstripping or glass storm windows - it really depends on what the condition is, if they are single or double pane and where you live. There are additional ways to lower energy costs, such as air sealing - a local person would be able to go into more detail.

Energy incentives by state are listed here:
http://www.dsireusa.org/

Wow, great information! Thanks!
I'm fairly certain the wiring is original, which I assume means it would be knob and tube. I'm also going to assume we'll have to change that before we're able to get a c/o. A PITA, for sure, but DH is an electrician of sorts and knows quite a few guys who would probably do the job at cost (plus a few beers ).

It'll be a long time before we get our final coat of paint up. My grandmom was a huge fan of wallpaper in the 70's. There's not a single room without some sort of orange flower, stripe, etc.

I know the heating system is only a few years old, so it's probably working at its full potential. I would love to look into switching the system completely, but we're not going to fix what isn't broke until/unless we have that kind of money.
We're going to slowly replace the windows as we have the money as there are a LOT of them. 26 if I'm figuring correctly. ...We have 6 windows in our current rental.

I'm sure this varies by region, but what price might we be looking at for insulation for roughly 2,500 square feet of living space?

[HeatherAtHome]

Originally Posted by bezark

I'm sure this varies by region, but what price might we be looking at for insulation for roughly 2,500 square feet of living space?

I have no clue. DH and I bought a small 100 year old house and are doing most of the work ourselves with a small budget. We have new windows (thank God!) but hardly insulation in the house.

This fall we're working on
*the headers in basement (where the house sits on foundation)
*the attic floor
*the north/western side of the house where we get all the wind (and coincidentally needed to be gutted anyways)
*removing trim around doors and windows and sealing with cans of spray foam. It was surprisingly easy and made quite the difference.

Next year (possibly) we'll insulate from the outside seeing we need to put new siding on.

Then there's talk of someday digging up the foundation to insulate from the outside.... I don't even want to think about that at this point.

My advice is if you find it's too expensive to do it all at once, focus on what will make the biggest difference and do it in stages.

[yaM yaM]

Wow . . so, basically, this is a very detailed subject that my research could go on for a very long time for.

I'm so thankful to have all of this feedback and links. Thank you, mamas! Off to study . . .

[Carson]

That's a fair point, sleepless. I found the info to be helpful regardless and didn't really seem slanted when I read it, so thought it may be helpful

LOL, May May, yeah, it's an entire professional field!

Bezark - I agree an energy audit (especially when starting 'fresh' in an old property) is your best bet. We have an old house with original windows and have talked to a lot of professionals who's consensus is that windows are an easy scapegoat and we've been so conditioned by the replacement window industry to think that original windows are evil. Most of the heat loss in a home is going to occur straight up top. I would probably think looking into that, then any other obvious drafts in your building envelope would yield the greatest results.

Heather, thanks for the info - I can see how you would not want to spray over Romex. We were surprised to see it sprayed over conduit - that's the only part of the process that gives me pause and it's really illogical of me, but it just seems odd. I guess, what if you need to access it?

[talia rose]

UltraTouch Recycled Denim Insulation is our favorite. Anything else has some level of toxicity. Particularly any of the foams.

Something to know about fiberglass insulation is that it is every bit as carcinogenic as asbestos. Wearing a mask during installation and removal is a must and considering its end of life - landfill or god forbid a fire where it is blowing free through the air are important details to look at....

[yaM yaM]

Talia rose, thank you so much for sharing that information. I am very new to all of this house stuff and have been so deeply committed to non-toxic things in my home in every other way . . . . so it is wonderful to learn there is something of that nature for insulating my new house with. I'm going to go check that stuff out right away. Thank you! This is my favorite of all the options I'm learning about and makes me feel just like