Does this bother you at all? - Page 2

[JohnnysGirl]

When I found out that a woman I bought from had a full-time job outside the home and was childless, I admit I was a bit taken aback, just because I had assumed all the diaper makin' women out there were at-home, cloth diaperin' mamas. But I bought from her again, and it's no big deal. I was just pretty surprised, and I had a lot of questions about how she ever came to think of starting a CDing online business, but of course I didn't ask. Also, she participated in the WAHMchicks charity auctions, but she's not a 'WAHM chick' so to speak, so I admit it crossed my mind as odd again then. But if she's got a quality product, and it works well for me, then I'll keep buying from her. I do feel more warm and fuzzy about buying from a WAHM, though.

[luvmy3boys]

That's fine as long as she has testers. My biggest pet peeve about several diapermaking WAHMs these days are that everyone seems to have mostly girls, and soakers are so short or the diaper design doesn't reflect an upfront wetter as much as I'd like. Makes me wonder if all the testers had girl babies too!

:LOL I share that pet peeve!

Now as for the op's questions:

Does it bother you if the WAHM farms out the work to someone else? It doesn't as long as: a) is clearly stated on her website b)the quality is up to par c) she does "quality control" d)she still stands behind it.

What if you didn't realize it until after you ordered? Again, that depends...if I didn't realize because I didn't read her fine print page, then I may be a little disappointed, but would quickly get over it as that was my mistake for not reading all the info, but if she does not mention it on her site, then I would be pretty bothered when finding out later...only because I felt duped/lied to, kwim?

Does it bother you if you find out the "WAHM" doesn't have any children?
Yes...I don't mind is someone has an at home business, but calling oneself a WAHM and not having children is being misrepresentative.

Or what about if she is a very new WAHM - new referring to maybe just having/had her first child?
It wouldn't bother me that she is a new mom as long as she isn't claiming to have other children (again, the lying/deception issue)

[teresond]

Weird

I would think it weird if a "wahm"would claim to be a wahm and did not have child number one. To me that would say she would be dishonest not just in that but probably take your money and run. Lots of scam artist on the internet and that doesn't say they can't pose as a wahm. Buyer beware.

I think it is the responsible thing to do to farm out work if the mom can not handle it on her own and she wants to grow her business and the demand is there for her product. We are all moms first (well, hopefully anyway) and if getting help sewing or flat out starting your own factory which I did (and I don't hide that fact) will help you continue to be as available of a parent as you can (because that is why wahms get into this in the first place) then so be it.

But by not being honest and up front about where the diapers are made or at best that someone else is making them or helping you or by taking all the credit yourself I think is dishonest and again, buyer beware.

[mamanature]

my feelings

which I did (and I don't hide that fact) will help you continue to be as available of a parent as you can

thats the point in this that I see.
to not mention a word about it or to deny it is just wrong.
i personally dont have trouble with it to me its just like buying clothes from a department store. as long as the quality is there it does nit matter. BUT...i do find it odd if the women had no kids but was sewing baby diapers. /i asked my dh what he thought and even though he thought it was strange he too was ok with it. his take on it is...there are women working for major factories sewing jock straps....kwim

[Austin'smom]

Does it bother you if the WAHM farms out the work to someone else?
No, as long as the quality of the work is the same.

What if you didn't realize it until after you ordered?
No.

Does it bother you if you find out the "WAHM" doesn't have any children?
Yes, if she calls herself a WAHM, because that is dishonest. I would have no problem purchasing items from someone that is not a WAHM as long as they representing themselves as someone they are not.

Or what about if she is a very new WAHM - new referring to maybe just having/had her first child?
No!

[Ackray]

Does it bother you if the WAHM farms out the work to someone else?
Nope

Does it bother you if you find out the "WAHM" doesn't have any children? Well to be a WAHM you kind of have to be a mom. But it wouldn't bother me if she were a work at home wife.

Or what about if she is a very new WAHM - new referring to maybe just having/had her first child? That wouldn't bother me.

[michray]

Re: Does this bother you at all?

Does it bother you if the WAHM farms out the work to someone else? Not at all, unless it is a custom order that I specifically requested from the WAHM.

What if you didn't realize it until after you ordered? Not unless it was the case I mentioned above

Does it bother you if you find out the "WAHM" doesn't have any children? Then she's not a WAHM! I dont think that doesnt mean someone cannot provide a quality product, but I would be VERY upset if someone represented themselves as WAHM and then I found out they had no children.

Or what about if she is a very new WAHM - new referring to maybe just having/had her first child? One child a WAHM can make! I think if her product is good quality and she did her research and testing, this wouldnt bother me at all.

[Rising Sun]

If you are referring to a particular wahm who does not yet have children, as I do know of only one, I want to simply state this:

This particular wahm struggles with infertility and is trying to have children. She does work full time at the moment while building her business and trying to get pregnant. Her plan is to be able to have her business built enough to be able to stay home with the baby, when said baby arrives.

I am only saying this to clear some things up. I don't want others to think that a wahm is just sittin around sewing diapers and calling herself a wahm while she vacations in the bahamas without a care in the world about children or future children.

And, how can we say when a woman becomes a mom? Is it when the baby is conceived? Or is it when the baby's soul is waiting to be conceived? Did she become a mom when she was pregnant with her first child? Did she suddenly become a non-mom when she lost that child? I don't know... I'm not her.

[*~*SewHappyNow*~*]

ditto what Teri said

And, how can we say when a woman becomes a mom? Is it when the baby is conceived? Or is it when the baby's soul is waiting to be conceived? Did she become a mom when she was pregnant with her first child? Did she suddenly become a non-mom when she lost that child? I don't know... I'm not her.

Well said Teri. As usual you have a way with putting my thoughts into words

[Lizzie3143]

Originally posted by Tree Huggin Hippie
And, how can we say when a woman becomes a mom? Is it when the baby is conceived? Or is it when the baby's soul is waiting to be conceived? Did she become a mom when she was pregnant with her first child? Did she suddenly become a non-mom when she lost that child? I don't know... I'm not her.

i was thinking the same thing. we have a family friend that has had 4 children. 2 born at 23 weeks 5 days that both passed and 2 late miscarriages. i still consider her a mom and we send her a card on mothers day.

[tuffykenwell]

Originally posted by Tree Huggin Hippie
And, how can we say when a woman becomes a mom? Is it when the baby is conceived? Or is it when the baby's soul is waiting to be conceived? Did she become a mom when she was pregnant with her first child? Did she suddenly become a non-mom when she lost that child? I don't know... I'm not her.

Well said. You expressed what I was feeling perfectly.

Steph

[Aherne]

Originally posted by Butterflymom
but she's not a 'WAHM chick' so to speak, so I admit it crossed my mind as odd again then. But if she's got a quality product, and it works well for me, then I'll keep buying from her. I do feel more warm and fuzzy about buying from a WAHM, though.

The others said what pretty much summed it up... But I do have to point out that "wahmchicks" is the name of the auction site- if it were named something different, it would still be the same auction site so because the term WAHM is in the title it isnt her fault. Same would be if a WAHD wanted to post stuff kwim?

****
Do we ask for birth certificates before you can get listed on a resource list, or on an auction site? WAHTTC? WAHWaiting to Adopt? WAHInfertile, deciding to live childless? WAHBut my baby died? WAHWife?
****

^^^^^I liked that^^^^^

You could feel good you were buying from someone who struggles with infertility because you are in a sense still helping her acheive the same goal that we are *staying home with her children*

[clothcrazymom]

Ok I think I should say something here.

I was in no way referring to anyone who is struggling with infertility. Given that I have an IVF baby...that certainly is NOT what I was referring to! I wasn't even aware of the gal that states something about IF on her site. So please lets not turn it into being about that.

That question more came from something that I've seen on some of the sewing lists. Some women will join the lists and get very excited and want to start diaper businesses right off the bat. Some have talked about - well one day I know we want to have children and I thought I would start a cding biz. And they've maybe made just a handful of diapers (and not tested). While they may be excellent seamstresses (giving the benefit of the doubt here) they have admittedly talked about not having any "real" cding experience. This is also what I was referring to in regards to a brand new mom - would there be a question about cding experience? or does cding experience even matter to you? Maybe I should have stated it that way instead

That's something that I would want to know if I think I'm going to a WAHM site. And how many of us really think to ask what sort of diapering experience the diaper maker has? Or better yet...do we think to ask how much testing went into her product? (one of my little pet peeves is that I feel that many products are severly undertested)

In regards to WAHMchicks. Well I do agree that I would think that those who participate there should be WAHM or WAHD. Seems sortof odd for someone who doesn't have children to be doing things in that arena. But then I think it would be really hard for the Auction host to police that. Maybe they could just have the person sign something stating that they are indeed a WAHM or WAHD. Maybe they already do this. Sorry, but just going to the WAHMchicks site makes me think that those on there are indeed WAHMs.

Also, I know that there are those of us that do make an attempt to specifically purchase from WAHM (I'm sure WAHD would be the same case) because we feel that we are helping support families in being with their children. I guess that's what prompted my original questions...would you then be upset at all to find out that things weren't as you thought.

For me any upset has come when I felt that things were not clealy represented or misrepresented in whatever the case was.

[Rising Sun]

was in no way referring to anyone who is struggling with infertility. Given that I have an IVF baby...that certainly is NOT what I was referring to! I wasn't

I know that you weren't referring to this particular wahm, but a few OP's did, and that is why I had to clear that up.

As far as a new mom having not cloth diapered before.... I know what you mean. One has to appreciate certain things about the diapers in order to understand them, yadda yadda. At the same time, one can have experience cloth diapering before they have kids. My son has been cloth diapering for the past 14 months.

I think it completely depends on their experience.

There are many women who see all of the cloth diapering businesses and think they can do that too, and make a ton of money. They expect to make money like a full time job and get really excited. These businesses tend to close up shop in a very short period of time. I know what you are talking about... I see it too. And wahm's that make diapers and use mostly sposies.... you know, cloth diaper while at home, but use sposies while child is sleeping and for going out.

One has to believe in their product and feel comfortable using it if they want others to do the same.

Teri

[soccerchic21]

Re: Does this bother you at all?

Does it bother you if the WAHM farms out the work to someone else?

No not really I just figure that she is so successful now that she needs the extra help. I still hope the dipe is of good quality but I am sure that WAHM picks a good seamstress

What if you didn't realize it until after you ordered?

I don't think it would bother me I would hope that even though they farm out thier work they are still a WAHM

Does it bother you if you find out the "WAHM" doesn't have any children?

Now that would bother me because then they really aren't a WAHM are they they are more like a WAHW (work at home woman/wife)

?[/B]Or what about if she is a very new WAHM - new referring to maybe just having/had her first child??[/B]

That does not bother me because I am one trying to get started being a WAHM. I don't think that just because you are a new WAHM means that you aren't a good one.

[craZmama]

Originally posted by Butterflymom
Also, she participated in the WAHMchicks charity auctions, but she's not a 'WAHM chick' so to speak, so I admit it crossed my mind as odd again then. But if she's got a quality product, and it works well for me, then I'll keep buying from her. I do feel more warm and fuzzy about buying from a WAHM, though.

You would feel "warm and fuzzy" if you knew this woman. She did the wahm chicks auctions because it was FOR CHARITY. She worked hard to get her items done in time. She is the sweetest person I have met in a LONG time. And she doesn't deserve this at all.

I would suggest you consider making a public apology.

[tippytoes26]

Wow.. I'm really out of the loop here because I get the feeling some of you are talking about a particular business woman ??

I don't think the NAME wahm really matters.. we sort of generalize and make wahm all inclusive of any "at home" business.. whether it's a mom, a dad, a grandparnt.. whatever. Heavnly Heinys for example.. isn't that run by the former owners parents? I don't see any problem with that. The reason being.. the pattern has been tried and tested and was used on the former owners children day in and day out... when she designed the pattern, she had CD experience. It's when a childless wahm DESIGNS a dipaer that I'm bothered. Ever buy a baby product from the store and think "who in the world designed this thing?!! They certain didn't have children!".. *LOL*.. my husband and I had that conversation a lot. There are some things that you have to learn first hand.. there is NO substitute for day in and day out use of a particular pattern. You can get a lot of information from reading and talking to other parents... but it's still not the same. I remember starting out using cloth diapers.. I'd read ALL the board archives..I'd done my research.. I knew what to look for and what to avoid..yet I was suprised at all the things I didn't and COULDN'T know without actually DOING it every single day.

It doesn't have anything to do with being or not being a mom in my book. I'm happy to buy from any work at home person.. but I will not spend my money on a diaper that was designed by a person without cloth diapering experience... not just on borrowed children.. but experience that means diaper changes every hour.. diaper laundry every 48 hours etc etc. I wouldn't go to a lactation consultant who had never breastfed either.. even if she has read all the books and talked to all the parents.. doesn't matter.. it's no substitute for the actual experience.

Amber

[Clarity]

Good thing DD deleted this post for me, lets try again.

Being a good sewer of CD's to me is not based on how many kids you have...since we're all seen poor sewers with children, or ones who assume all kids pee or are shaped like theirs. Plenty of well experienced with CD women have made some pretty bad diapers. Innovation and pattern development are helped with a lot of practical experience, but aren't exclusive. If she makes a diaper that works great for me, I don't care if she has none or 10. If she has to be the perfect CD'ing mom, how many makers would we have? And how would they meet the demand? Poor makers will go out of business, good ones stay until they burn out. They're not much money in it.

Were I selling CD's, where would I sell them? my website, ebay, wahmall/kittybids, wahmchicks. Would it be my choice how those sites are named? It's the marketplace. WAHDads would certainly not be eligible, being neither a mom nor a chick. Grandmothers would qualify? I don't feel there deception by selling on sites labeled wahm, calling yourself a WAHM on you web site might be questionable to me...but given how we use that term broadly to include women who make jewelry, soap, pads, and other products that have nothing to do with parenting, I could see why someone might see it as becoming a broarder term instead of trying to deceive (like workmanship...even if it's not a man.)

Will we next perhaps exclude a mom who has a babysitter or her mom come in and help while she sews? Or uses daycare 2 days a week, or preschool. Or ships her UPS packages from someone's office...because it's not a "home"

[clothcrazymom]

Very well said Amber!

I agree - there are some things that just really take specific experience. I'm sure there are a few exceptions out there.

I agree with what Teri said too - I think there is a world of difference in using diapers day in and day out in all circumstances and just using them here and there.

Clarity - I think you are missing the point. No one is saying that these different people should NOT do anything. We are in no way talking about excluding anyone. It was about things being misrepresented. I think most of us agree that we just want people to be honest and we just want to be informed. Then we can make whatever choice we want to about it.

I also think maybe it's just a reminder that some of us need to ask more questions because when we see things like "I make the diapers with...." and so on - that we expect that they are the one actually making the diapers. And if we want to purchase from those who have actual hands on experience with cding day in and day out - then maybe we need to ask about that. I know when I'm reading reviews I will often inquire about specific things. But I'm not always so good about asking the same things when purchasing.

[4boybarians]

The point that many are seeming to make here that I simply cannot give any kind of credence to is that one must have firsthand experience with using a product on one's own child for it to be a good product.

I've seen posts from many people that talk about how mom or grandma or Aunt Sue got excited about the new cloth diaper options and started making me diapers and now she wants to sell them... If she's got a good product, I can't imagine refusing to use it because she doesn't have to change the diapers or do the laundry herself.

Also, there's not a single WAHM out there making diapers who will be able to continue indefinitely trying new fabrics and innovations on her OWN children. If she continues to make diapers once her children no longer wear them, and if she plans to continue making improvements to her design or trying new fabrics, then there will come a point where she can no longer say with honesty, "Yes, I've used this exact product on my child."

Honestly, I think this is one time where diaper makers really ARE being held to a different standard than any other business would be held to. I don't contact Old Navy to make sure their clothing designers have children, I didn't contact the manufacturer of my washing machine to make sure their designers all have children, etc.

I feel it would be incredibly rude to start asking personal questions to a diaper maker. Just because she has a product available doesn't mean I have the right to ask her how many children she has, how long she's been using cloth diapers, or any other question of that nature. Those things have nothing to do with the fit or quality of her product, and it's only my business if she chooses to post that information on her site.